Tequesta

I would like to fly combat, but am a little confused on how to get started. What class should I put my initial investment in. Some have said SSC or 2610, but competitions are few and far between. Open B was the other suggestion, and stay local until I honed my combat skills. I know most pilots have planes for all categories, but I would like to start without breaking the bank and pissing off the wife!

Thanks,

John

Montague

The absolute #1 rule is find out what the guys near you are flying, and build for that class. If they are flying some odd club rules, that's what you should do. If they fly SSC or B or whatever, that's what you should do. It really helps to find and talk to guys who are active in your area.

It's pointless to build a combat plane that you can't fly against the guys near by, after all.

Beyond that, it really doesn't matter all that much. A lot of people will suggest SSC because the planes are slower and the mid-air damage is usually less, but a lot of guys have trouble getting the .15 size engines to run right.

B class planes are generally easier to set up and keep running right, but the mid-air damage is higher when the do hit.

I normally wouldn't suggest starting with 2610 unless that's the most popular class in the area. The build time is longer, and there are fewer solid, proven kits available for that class.

Of course, a lot of this depends on your idea of "close" as well. Some guys think anything not at their home field is too far away. Depending on exactly where you are, you'll probably need to be willing to drive at least a little. For example, I was just down in your neck of the woods, in West Palm Beach flying 2610 and B class. The club there (and more importantly the guys running the contest) seem to prefer those two classes over SSC. So I doubt they will hold SSC contests. But I know there are some SSC contests farther north in FL and in GA.

Tequesta

Thanks Kirk,

I just got your review on the Tracker. I am thinking to start off in the 2610 class any suggestions on kits.

John

Montague

I think the JKAerotech P-47N is one of the best kits to start with in 2610. It's a bit slower than planes like my Firebrand or Grasshopper's KI-64's, but it turns tightly if built light, is pretty easy to build, and pretty rugged with some enhancements. (I did mine with 1/8" fiberglass rod spars, and a soda bottle cowl). Demon on here posted a lot of great mods to the kit that worked well.

Hattrick might have some 2610 kits as well, I'm not sure. He used to, I don't know if he still makes them or not. I have no idea if some of the other kits are still out there or not.

I also don't know if the Chez-made fiberglass fuse kits (like those KI-64s) are still available.

Whatever you do, avoid balsa-based kits. They just go down too easily.

Montague

I should also note that while I love 2610 the most of any combat class, it seems to be declining on the national level. There are a lot of guys (mostly in TX and that part of the country) who have been trying to replace that class. How that will play out in the future is anyone's guess. But it says something that I drove 14hrs to fly 2610... There's no 2610 within 8hrs of my house either, and it looks like there will be less this year than in prior years.

I already skipped going to Havoc over Hamilton, a contest in Ohio that I've been to in the past, in a large part because they stopped flying 2610.

But they ARE holding it at Dixie in GA in early June, and you know I'll be there. AMA Nats as well.

Capn America

My Feedback: (3)

Not really the preffered method maybe but the route we chose. we built basic spads at the club level and flew them most of the summer to get used to them. 40 sized monsters. we decided to get legal and split a 3 pack of avengers last summer, finished them a week before the detroit event and showed up to fly. I believe in diving in head first to see how deep the water is.

I like open B but im a speed freak. If i were starting again today i would build a new plane that was legal for ssc/open and limited b with the same wing. team seaholm makes one currently. All you have to do is swap the motor and weight for the different classes. Less parts to stock makes everybody happy.

Worth consideration in my book

Montague

Good point there, actually.

There is a difference between one guy looking to fly combat, and a group in a club looking to fly combat.

The advice I gave ealier was intended for the situation where you have one guy who wants to try it out.

If the situation is different, and you have a club with several guys and you want to look at trying some club-level combat with your own rules, then that's a different story all together.

Tequesta

I want to jump it feet first. I plan to stay local, fly by the rules, and try to get some locals to join in the fun. Once I am comfortable, start to travel. I have been eying the Avenger kit, but was unsure if I could use it for both ssc and open B. I have sent off for a Gremlin kit and it should be here this week some time. I got this as a practice plan, and a way to get my feet wet. 40$ total not a bank breaker. If I don't like it, no great loss. I expect I will love it, and that is when I will get the 3 pack of Avengers.

Thanks

John

Capn America

My Feedback: (3)

The new kit is the B2 that is legal for both ssc and B the other sscavengers and 1072s are purpose built planes for a class.

Tequesta

I will check it out.
Thanks

grasshopper

Wake up and smell the coffe Tequesta, your home club, the RC Bushpilots is hosting two 2day contests this year. One back in April and again next month Sept. 9,10.

What planet have you been on?

If you are for real, there is a growing group in the club gearing up and flying their stuff to practice for the contest, we'll be glad to help you along. If not, happy posting! In other words if you REALLY want to get started in combat, you have to do more than post on the forums! Come on bro, it's great fun, but you do actually have to jump in to get wet!

Tequesta

Chris,

Don’t drink coffee. But the question wasn't WHERE it was WHAT. I was looking for other options. You are the authority in reference to combat in our area, and you have given me your view at the monthly meeting about a year ago when you announced the idea of a event at said meeting. You are against SSC, which seems to be a great way for an intermediate sport pilot to get his feet wet in competition. 500 + bucks and almost certain death in an open B competition, with experts like you and Kirt, in my option is not the best way to kindle the combat bug.

Before you say it is not 500$ + lets do your math. 180 for 3 Teamseaholm kits. Three OS .25 at Towers price 85$= 255$. 12 servos on e-bay at 10$ and you are now over 500$, and I didn’t get any miscellaneous building supplies. I am on a budget so I'll have to move my receiver from one plan the other if needed.

I respect your position, but for guys like me that are relatively new to the hobby, it doesn't hurt to ask the questions. Plus I like to read and exchange ideas about this stuff.

John Harding

PS I'll probable be taking your advice anyway, but I will not make the fall meet. Look out! Come spring!! They say new pilots tend to have more mid airs.

Alex Treneff

John,

I don't think Chris is anti-SSC. I've flown it with him at 3 contests, and he enjoys it. He just likes Open B as well.

There are many SSC contests in Georgia, I don't know how many in Florida.

SSC is the most-flown class, especially in the SE.

Also, if you are on a budget SSC is a great class, because you don't absolutely have to get 3 planes to start out. The OS .15 is $25 cheaper than the .25.

You might want to use a little of the savings to buy metal-gear HS-81MG or CS-12MG servos though. The nylon geared servos can strip easily in combat.

Also check out other designs such as the [link=http://www.TreneffRC.com]Battle Axe[/link].

Even if you don't have any planes ready, go to some local contests and meet people and do research on what equipment is used and so on.

The people are the best part of combat, so get out there and meet them!

rrh

John, like Alex says, even if you don't have planes ready get out to the contests and meet the pilots. The event is the best place to "exchange ideas" when you can see the plane right in front of you. You'll probably see some scratch built planes that you may want to pattern yours after as well. You don't have to go the kit route. I have been flying my own designs for 5 years with reasonable success. Kits are easier though, that's why there are a couple of Alex's Axes in my hangar now

Good luck and watch your six!

r

Montague

Fwiw, you don't need 3 B class planes either to start with. And they don't need to be avengers, which are expensive (very good, but expensive).

The key is to fly combat. That means building planes you can fly in contests that are being held in your area. Why build SSC planes if there's no one to fly against? Why NOT build a B class plane if you can fly it at your home field?

It sounds to me like you came on here with an adjenda because you wanted to hear "fly SSC" as the answer because you didn't like what Chris was already doing. That's not the way to fly combat, no matter where you are.

What do you mean by certain death? If you mean destruction of your airplane, you are far more likely to get hit in SSC than in B class by the experienced pilots. And far more likely to get hit in B class than in 2610. My oldest combat planes with the most rounds flown on them are my 2610 scale planes. They just don't mid-air very often. SSC planes, on the other hand, I tear up so quickly I don't have a single one that hasn't been disabled and repaired multiple times. I broke 7 SSC wings in 10 rounds at Nats. I broke 2 OpenB wings in 10 rounds at Nats. Only 1 plane damaged in 2610 over 10 rounds. So, if you just want 1 plane, build for 2610.

The reason is simple. SSC planes are slow and clump together in a very small airspace. They also tend to fly close in and low, making it easier to get all the planes together at the same depth, and that means more time spent in close proximity to other planes. This leads to more cuts and higher scores. It also means more mid-airs. 2610 is the extreme in the other direction. The planes are fast, but don't turn as well as other classes, so they spread out all over the sky. They don't spend a lot of time right on top of each other. The scores are lower because they don't cross within range of a cut as often, and the mid-airs are much much lower.

If you mean trying to be "competitive", well, that takes time, you can't just appear at your first contest and not expect better, experienced pilots to not place better. (I say that because I've seen guys think that somehow spending a bunch of money will make them competitive. It doesn't work that way, and the get discouraged when they don't place well right from the start. YMMV, who knows, you might be a natural, but don't count on it).

Tequesta

Kirk
I don't even own a combat plane yet. I have no hidden agenda. I am just trying to learn the most about this part of the hobby before I spend my hard earned money on more planes. The best advice was to fly what is close, and that is open b, which you posted right from the start. Two kids and a wife doesn't leave much time to travel around the South East to compete. Chris is a great asset to the club and I am thankful for all that he does for our club and the hobby as a whole. From what I have read, SSC is quickly becoming very popular in the combat arena, and all I did was ask the question what about SSC. I was at the Bush Pilots April meet and it was awesome. I had never seen anything like it before and AMA magazine doesn't do combat justice. I have to admit it's a little intimidating for a first timer. I talked to Chris and followed the links that he recommended, but I had more questions, and that is what brought me here. Your last post is exactly what I have been looking for, a break down of each class giving the pros and cons.

Thanks

John

Capn America

My Feedback: (3)

I flew at the Nats this year as well for the first time and had the opposite problems Kirk did.


At our club we fly B. we have flown ssc planes with B planes for practice but its no fun to be the guy with the 15. also kind of hard to judge the speeds.

You want honest advise? Fly whatever your club flies. If the B equiptment costs you a little more, think of all the gas savings you will have by not having to drive to another club where they fly the other class. I will easily spend $120 this weekend on fuel to go to a close event.

I have only been flying with the RCCA bunch for 1 year . Get in there and fly with somebody and just be prepared to write the first event off in your mind as a learning experiance. You will recieve more support from the guys flying than you will believe. I think they really fly in front of you on your first event to give you a few cuts and suck you in... There are a lot of good kits out there but its easiest to fly whatever local guys are flying so you can swap parts and get help on planes they are familiar with. then you can break out and build your own or switch to another kit.

Tequesta

Great advice thanks

John