What are the factors that make a .15 engine legal for SSC? I have: (1) Enya .15 III with an OS band-attachment-style muffler adapted to it...don't know where the original muffler went. Also have (2) MVVS .15's with the MVVS muffler - kinda like a mousse can style, but came stock with the engines. Also an RJL Conquest .15 with the stock Conquest muffler and an ASP .15 with the stock ASP muffler. Which of these are legal for SSC? Please let me know before I waste a perfectly good WalMart cutting board!

Thanks,

Al

Being in on the SSC trials and tribulations of SSC in it's infancy, the spirit of the SSC engine specific rule is:

To first keep it low cost ($60 max), keep it stock (everyone is equal or can be with same investment $$), and keep the rpms down so the speed stays slow and survivable in midair action. Thus why the rules as written.

Now since SSC is in the provisional class state, and having what you have now, I turn the question over to you, what do you think? Is it the direction you would like to pursue the rules considering a no questions asked engine only cost $45.00 for hours of fun.

To play devils advocate I know modifying of SSC engines is currently being allowed by removing exhaust baffles, Enlarging muffler bolt screws, replacing OEM high speed needle valves with after market ones, once the original gets snapped off in a dirtnap. So there are grey areas, as in your case.

I would suggest you slap something together and have some local club combat fun. SSC is a blast when kept slow.......

Good luck, If your really want an answer straight from the horses mouth, "The originator of the 5 comandments", send an e-mail directly to, [email protected]

Thanks for the response, C/F. Here's my take....the Enya is going on 30 years old and is tired...couldn't get close to 17,000 RPM on its best day...only trouble is...the non-stock Enya, but otherwise stock, .15-size sport muffler. The MVVS engines were never competitive in 2610 combat, having a very restrictive carb. Top RPM with an 8x3 MAS is probably in the 15,000 range on sport fuel. Cost new was about $67. The RJL Conquest is out, definitely...exceeds the price barrier, as well as the spirit of SSC. The ASP...probably can't hit 17K with the 8x3 MAS on sport fuel. Cost was about 65 bucks when I bought it.

I'm not trying to bend the rules on a provisional event, I just want to use some of the stuff I've got gathering dust in the basement. I'm pushing age 60 now, and I feel my reflexes are not sharp enough to compete in some of the other, faster, classes. As I have grown older I've had to reconcile myself with the fact that I no longer have as sharp reflex skills as I formerly had. Therefore, I want to participate events in which I can fly safely, but still have a good time flying combat. I can go pop for a new engine, but the purpose of my post was to inquire whether any of the engines I listed could be used in SSC. If the consensus is no, then I will accept that and go buy a cheapo .15, no problem.

Hope I haven't upset everyone what with SSC being a provisional event and all. That was not my intent. I was just wondering if I could possibly use some of the engines I already have.

Regards,

Al

Hi Al,
The Five Commandments for SSC were written with a great deal of overlap in the rules.

Regarding engines it is less than $60, advertised price; Bone Stock no mods; and must run MA 8X3 at less than 17,500. Also there is a claiming rule.

By the time all is said and done the really most important rule is MA 8X3 only, at less than 17,500 rpms.

Like you I have several RJL Conquests that would certainly not meet the rpm requirments.

I believe that if you come to tech inspection and prove that you do not exceed 17,500 rpm with a peaked engine running the proscribe MA 8X3 the CD will let you fly.

I would use whichever of the Enya, ASP, or MVVS that you prefer. You can control rpm with nitro content.

By the way where do you hail from?

Al,
I did not view your post as upsetting in any way, I thought if you new a little background history you might better be able to understand the spirit of what makes an SSC engine legal.

Provisional means that the rules are open for tweaking still and will probably be so come July. I was looking for some input from someone like yourself as to these grey areas that pop up from time to time.

Lou is the ultimate source on issue like these and it sounds as if some older engines laying around just might have a use.

As for a little SSC design history, the 8X3 prop is the real kicker, it is a "major dog" of a prop, but needed to keep things slow, @ the minimum weight of 2 1/2 lbs and 400 minimum square inches of wing, if your not turning that prop atleast 16,800 hand launches are difficult in cross and downwind launches, also it becomes very unstable when pulling a streamer or even two when going slightly vertical, thus you have a plane that is a handfull for even the veteran combat ACES. History has shown the wing area increasing to 500+ squares are proving to help flight envelope. 17000 is about the top rpm IMO, you can safely set the engine at, to comfortably pass a pinch test and have a safety margin for error so it does not exceed 17500 when tached during a tech inspection.

I would get something together, put some 30% heli fuel in them dinosaurs, use 7X4 prop and get em airborne and trimmed out. This will ensure a succesfull day of fun. Then you can worry about detuning with the 8X3 and legal rpm's. I say go for it, SSC is combat for all ages. If it works out like we hope, you can just hang your model on the wall and bring it out for battle time and then just put it back on the wall for the next battle..............

Hi Lou, Hi c/f....

Many thanks for the kind words from both of you.

Don Veres donated a couple of his Debut fuselages...one is unfinished and the other was flown in last year's Nats, according to the inspecition sticker on it. I plan to build a couple of 500 sq. in. wings for them and hang some of my old iron on the front, as I explained earlier. I'd also like to build a HOR, and have all the stuff on hand. Am finishing up a PBF right now. That looks like a lot of fun!

I appreciate your advice and will start with the old Enya, followed by one of the others.

I hail from Warren, Michigan, and was an early RCCA member, back in the late '90's, before taking a 3 year vacation from the hobby. Since my wife is from Madison, WI, I have flown with the guys over there quite a bit, and I know many of the combat fliers over there. Still have a few of Ziggy's foamies here, waiting to be built.

SSC seems to be tailor made for guys like me who are getting a bit long in the tooth and are unable to mix it up competitively with the big guys. That's okay, I'm in it for the fun, and am not hell bent on winning.

At any rate, I plan to re-join RCCA again this year and with the advent of coro, plan to build a few more planes before the season gets going in earnest.

Thanks again to both of you for your support.

Al

Al,
We would love you to rejoin RCCA. We need as many voices as possible for our sport.

Slow and Survivable Combat (SSC) or Nerf does indeed work for us gray hairs, but it also works well for almost everyone as well.

Last year we quit practicing with our Open B planes, because we always broke them practicing. We confined flying them to contests. This was kind of stupid because without practice we weren't improving and we actually went backwards.

With SSC we don't break airplanes. Becaue they are slower (about 50 mph) your vision tends to widen and you can see planes coming at you and also see more planes to go after.

SSC was all about "what if one plane would last an entire contest, or two last a season?". I think most CDs will go easy on all the rules except prop and rpm max; minimum weight, and minimum wing area.

I have gone back to building "scale" like airplanes for SSC. If they last longer I don't mind taking the time to build a nice looking WWII fighter. I'm just finishing up a KI61 with 60" wing for SSC. It should fly great with its 540 square inches of wing area.

Please give Don Veres my best regards and I hope to meet you at the Mid West Nats in September in Menominee Falls, Wi.

Okay, Lou, I'll plan on being there! Looking forward to meeting you and renewing old acquaintances.

Al

Hi Al,

I flew with you at a few ofthe Madison contests back in the good old days! Gladto see your back and I'll see you at Lenox or Menominee!

Hey Lou,

If your going to Midwest Nats, in Menominee perhaps you might research some FLOAT PLANE FIGHTERS..........They should rename this meet as "RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE"

A good set of waders and a metal detector, and a 75 foot ladder are some needed items at that GOD FORSAKEN FIELD........

This is DOC EVILS stomping grounds and man is he good at the terrain. I had to chase him around a "mamoth tree" that sits show center about 100' away from the CEL line... most the time out of eyesight, but this was the safest bet, I refused to chase him over the swamp just left of show center

This field is home to a beloved friend of mine as well. who is still currently listed as MIA, 8/02. right at show center somewhere in the tall thicket is a brand new JETT 30 with a bright red muffler and a bright red carburator. What a shame, the thicket is that dense.

The last time I flew combat was in '99 at a field in Oconomowoc, WI. First round on Saturday my engine quit and in the process of dead sticking in, in order to avoid the furball, I turned 180 degrees downwind and went over some 15 foot-high bushes and my Ziggs Hellcat disappeared behind them. After the round was over, somebody told me there was a creek back there...sure enuf, the Hellcat was lying inverted in the center of the creek. When I pulled it out, about a quart of water drained out of it. Sheesh!

Took the soaked bird back to my sister-in-law's house in Madison and dried out everything, swabbing all of the printed circuit boards with alcohol. Checked it out and everything worked. Went back to Oconomowoc on Sunday and mid-aired in the first round....so much for bringing only one plane to a meet, 450 miles from home....

later,

Al

C/F,
Menominee might have water hazards but I don't think it can compare to the Sharps, Florida Field. You fly on a Peninsula, with water on three sides. The gators don't come close but they are out there in the lily pads off to the right.

When Ben and I got to the flying site on Saturday the locals proudly pointed out their Kayak for retrieving planes. I lost one in the right side lake and Slam, quick as a whistle was in the Kayak to retrieve it. The Larbrador retrievers couldn't keep up with that boy but they tried.

Now if you overflew the center lake you would go down in the Palmetto grove. Ben had to retrieve his plane from there and had to outsmart two mocassins on the way in. Damn bugs, snakes, water, and gators are bad, plus those darn rudder bugs that Billy and Slam fly make for a miserable event.

Nah, Menominee Falls can't hold a candle to Sharps. Where real men (and idiots) fly combat.

Sounds like you might have that field topped....YIKES........atleast theres no deadly varments in the waters of WISCONSIN. But you will have to supply your own retrieving tools..................