WoW, I'm shocked,,,Just Got off the phone with
Steve Kaluf @ AMA and he is standing by his
interprutation of the rules..He defines COMBAT
as taking to the the air, intending to combat,
which would include TAKE-OFFS and LANDINGS
whether it be Sunday fun bewtween two individuals
or an organized event...
I dont know about you but my club would not
stand for me walking out 200'+ for launch and
landings on a busy SUNDAY.
This makes it even more restrictive to get
class C going before it's even under way...
He even mentioned the take-off tangles that
occered @ last years Grand Homecoming Event...
He sees combat needing to be way off sight as
is Q500 events or even more so, because
racing setbacks are only imposed @ events, NOT
under general rules as is COMBAT....
He said if I choose to interprut take off/landings
outside the term combating he felt lawyers would
have a field day if an accident were to occur...
(IMHO this being a loop hole for AMA not to pay
ie. UGHH were did you take-off from sir.)
This is yet one more stab in the back with AMA
and it's pompous attitude to govern yet they are
2,3,4 etc inline when it comes time to write a check.
The Jet turbine crowd is up in arms right now with
AMA new waiver requirements,, My homeowners or rider
policy copuld care less what turbine I care to buy
I'm still covered...Clubs are scrambling to
submit bylaws as if this is any of their business,,
Our club needs to update bylaws and can't because
a 2/3 membership vote @ a meeting is required to
change bylaws...It is time for some new insurance
carrier to emerge, RCCA events have not been part
of AMA sanctions for years so now is the time to also
break away from them as an insurance carrier, What
about UMA? just my .02

I can't stand being forced to belong to the AMA. Do you remember their stupid little campaign to recruit new members. You sign up three members and your 2002 dues would be paid? Well I got my three and and even had them do those stupid little cards and AMA when it came time to renew for this year they had the nerve to tell me there was no record of my having sponsered those three. I like fly and am required to belong to the AMA at our field. But with people like they have at the helm no wonder there are so many renegade flyers.

Hideho all,

Here's the real deal. The AMA is not an Insurance company, period.
Never have been, and never will. It pays so far down the food chain it's not even funny.
Know why?
Membership. It's the hook that keeps the old timers paying thier dues. Without it membership would fall off in droves.
Do you care to guess what the median age group is in the AMA? Bout the same as your club. Mine is 80% crumudgens....care to guess how they vote? Yup. Don't like helis. don't like gliders. don't like Combat. Don't like funflys.
Shoot if they could they would be a Cub club I think.

But I digress, if you haven't seen the voteing percentage last election it will make you sick, something like 18% of AMA members voted, if that high.

As I own an insurance agency, it is my opinion that you won't find another carrier to insure us, ever.
It blows but that's how it is...I don't like it either but I deal with it.

Best to you ,
Mike

It was my impression that State Farm had a "Recreational Activities" policy?

Hideho again,

You won't find a company to insure us as a group.
Sure, your homeowners covers your liability if you damage someone elses person or property, they all do that.

Insurance companys deal in the law of large numbers, that is to be able to insure us as a group, they must have a majority of the hobbiest's participate in the plan. Unlikely I'm thinking.

Better to carry an umbrella policy for, say a million dollars. It's only about 50.00 a year depending on your exposure to loss.

Shoot, it's late..I'm going to bed,
Later,

AMA strikes again.
I am a club officer for a small club in Ohio. We have mostly older members. We have been a chartered club for years and never had a set of by-laws drawn up. Everyone loves flying of all types, and we got along fine, no real problems, until the subject of by-laws were brought up so that we can keep our AMA charter.
Thanks to AMA and their close relationship with attorneys we have had more disagreements than I've seen since I've been in the club. Over half the members say they would like to get out of AMA but the one rule we all really agreed on was no flying unless you had an AMA membership (like in our AMA club charter). I'm sure if there was another organization we would have no trouble voting to join it. It's a good thing AMA got their building built before they drive all their members away.

Flyerjohn - there is another modeling organization that provides primary insurance coverage - they go by the name: "United Modelers Association" - and they have a website located at the following link: http://www.unitedmodelers.com/

I don't know much about the organization, but I have seen several folks discussing it - and it appears that it may be the type of an organization that you and your club are looking for.

I hope that helps!

In reading all the posts I have to take the time to reply. If you don't like the AMA, I urge you not to join. If your clup requires AMA membership and you don't like it, don't join the clup. I said that kind of "tongue in cheek". Why not try to change things instead of just *****ing about them. You did have an alternative. Remember the Sport Flyers Association. What happened to them?? I suggest that couldn't deliver on what they promised. I orginally was on the RCCa open rules committee. Finished up my work on round one and didn't have time to do round two. I have to say I am dead set against class "C". Way back when, we held a "combat what you bring" event at out club. This was way before RCCA. The .40 sized aircraft were just plain dangerous. How about one with an aluminum fuselage. Now there's an accident waiting to happen.

Anyway, if you don't like something, get involved and attempt to change it. When was the last time you voted or put your name on a ballot?????

Hey...I was on that committee also, and I joined for the reasons you spoke of...don't *****...do!!!!

Being an event organizer, I've organized and flown in 168 rounds of combat since the new set back requirements. Before that, I organized and flew in 128 rounds of organized combat. Breaking it down to heats, that well over 500 heats (and that doesn't include practice!). Also included prior to the above mentioned is over 14 years of participating in organized and non organized combat with buddies.

At each event I organize we fly A class, C class and 2610 class. Due to their size, flight charicteristics and visibility, the C class is always the safest class. The most close calls have always come from the A class (which BTW is my favorite). Since the AMA set back, the C class has now become without a doubt the safest form of combat there is. If there is an out of control plane or mid air, the planes are far enough out that danger is not even a player anymore. I would say it would take at least 2 seconds for a plane to make it from the combat arena to the flightline. If you haven't done it properly to the required set back, you wouldn't know. If you want to pucker your butt, fly A class. The set back is only 75 feet to the spectators, and to the pilots it's "in your face" big time. The planes are squirrly, and an out of control plane is a safety factor in a half a fraction of a second. That's why instead of *****ing, I joined the RCCA and started working from within to try to change things. I couldn't just sit around and read the stuff that guys with no experience were saying about something they knew nothing about. With the help of other experienced C class pilots that also joined, we became strong enough to vote it in, and now the RCCA has a C class.

As for the set back c/f...The termonology oversite is being worked on very hard by very good people.

Hi folks,
Kraut thanks for the link and info,Paero and Tattoo you are right we should work to change things we don't agree with. I became an officer in this club so we could keep it going. Two years ago my first year in the club),I became the secretary/ treasurer/ assistant grounds keeper , last year I was secretary/ treasurer/ acting president/assistant grounds keeper (you know the drill). This year I am only the president and we finally got some other members to step up and take some other positions so I feel we are making progress. Some of the other members used to belong to the Sport flyers assoc. I have only been in the hobby a few years. I should'nt have been complaining about AMA, but for small clubs it is hard getting good intel and ideas that are consructive especially when you are as inexperienced as I am. I guess I was just venting, sorry about that.
By the way I have enjoyed your SPAD sight for some time. Again sorry for the downloading and Thanks for the Info.