Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
07-29-2004 | 01:56 AM
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From: santa clarita,
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Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
A lot of people are suggesting that R/C drifting is somehow less "real" than 1:1 drifting. The root of this argument comes from the fact that R/C drifting is not typically done with rear-wheel drive vehicles on rubber tires. Instead it is done with plastic tires (ABS or PVC) and four-wheel drive.
This is complete nonsense.
It is not practical to replicate 1:1 car drifting with an R/C car, and to be honest, the layout and configuration of the car have no bearing on drifting anyway. It really doesn't matter what you are driving in any form of drifting, whether it be r/c or full scale. Its all about style: turn entry speed, drift angle, racing line/apex, and overall impact (which includes smoke and noise).
The difference between 1:1 FR drift cars and 1:10 r/c cars is huge.
Weight distribution is way off (rear-engine)
power/weight ratio is off
cornering force in an r/c is several times what it is with a 1:1 car
CG height (and therefore weight tranfer) is very different
chassis stiffness is higher with r/c (in the relevant torsonal force range)
steering ackerman is much higher on an r/c car
steering angle at full lock is typically higher on an r/c car
steering input sensitivity is WAY off (can you imagine being at full lock in a 1:1 car at about 45 degrees of steering wheel input?)
An r/c car has FAR more in common with a Formula 1 car (ok, Indycar for you left-turn-only rednecks) than it does a street car, even a fully prepped race/drift car like you see in Formula-D or D1GP (I've had a hand in building cars for F-D and D1 competition, I know quite a lot about them)
So basically its like putting a 2-inch steering wheel on a Formula 1 car, removing all of the aero components, doubling the steering angle, and then trying to "style" drift. Good luck with that.
Note: I make a distinction there, and call it "style-drift" for lack of a better term. The problem is that "drifting," in true racing terms, refers specifically to maximising traction by increasing the tire slip angle (to a point), and is primarily a matter of contact patch distortion and sidewall deflection. It is not quite the same sort of "drift" we are talking about here.
This is complete nonsense.
It is not practical to replicate 1:1 car drifting with an R/C car, and to be honest, the layout and configuration of the car have no bearing on drifting anyway. It really doesn't matter what you are driving in any form of drifting, whether it be r/c or full scale. Its all about style: turn entry speed, drift angle, racing line/apex, and overall impact (which includes smoke and noise).
The difference between 1:1 FR drift cars and 1:10 r/c cars is huge.
Weight distribution is way off (rear-engine)
power/weight ratio is off
cornering force in an r/c is several times what it is with a 1:1 car
CG height (and therefore weight tranfer) is very different
chassis stiffness is higher with r/c (in the relevant torsonal force range)
steering ackerman is much higher on an r/c car
steering angle at full lock is typically higher on an r/c car
steering input sensitivity is WAY off (can you imagine being at full lock in a 1:1 car at about 45 degrees of steering wheel input?)
An r/c car has FAR more in common with a Formula 1 car (ok, Indycar for you left-turn-only rednecks) than it does a street car, even a fully prepped race/drift car like you see in Formula-D or D1GP (I've had a hand in building cars for F-D and D1 competition, I know quite a lot about them)
So basically its like putting a 2-inch steering wheel on a Formula 1 car, removing all of the aero components, doubling the steering angle, and then trying to "style" drift. Good luck with that.
Note: I make a distinction there, and call it "style-drift" for lack of a better term. The problem is that "drifting," in true racing terms, refers specifically to maximising traction by increasing the tire slip angle (to a point), and is primarily a matter of contact patch distortion and sidewall deflection. It is not quite the same sort of "drift" we are talking about here.
07-29-2004 | 01:52 PM
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From: sac,
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RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
anyone that says all wheel drive drifting is drifting is a moron 
record holder for longest drift is a wrx ALL WHEEL DRIVE. just thought id add that cuz it pisses me off when people think all wheel drive is cheating or something.... even in real car drifintg holding a drift is easier in AWD also!!!
everythign you said is correct... just adding my .02 for everyone reading this and to express myself
you can not compare abs/pvc rc drifting to to real car drifting. the ONLY THING SIMILAR is that your going side ways and you can control angle and speed with throttle. NON of the physics of real drifting apply at all.
people with powerfull enough rc's that are drifting on regular rc tires can be considered slightly closer to real drifintg... but still ABSOLUTELY none of the physics apply.
why people take the word "drifitng" so literal boggles my mind.
there are many ways to interperate the meaning and definition of the word DRIFTING and it really doesnt even matter. isnt the only thing that people care about is going sideways right??? so who cares!!!! your going through a turn sideways... thats all that matters. have fun!!!
record holder for longest drift is a wrx ALL WHEEL DRIVE. just thought id add that cuz it pisses me off when people think all wheel drive is cheating or something.... even in real car drifintg holding a drift is easier in AWD also!!!everythign you said is correct... just adding my .02 for everyone reading this and to express myself
you can not compare abs/pvc rc drifting to to real car drifting. the ONLY THING SIMILAR is that your going side ways and you can control angle and speed with throttle. NON of the physics of real drifting apply at all.
people with powerfull enough rc's that are drifting on regular rc tires can be considered slightly closer to real drifintg... but still ABSOLUTELY none of the physics apply.
why people take the word "drifitng" so literal boggles my mind.
there are many ways to interperate the meaning and definition of the word DRIFTING and it really doesnt even matter. isnt the only thing that people care about is going sideways right??? so who cares!!!! your going through a turn sideways... thats all that matters. have fun!!!
08-04-2004 | 08:55 AM
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From: Isle of Man, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
v. intr.
1. To be carried along by currents of air or water: a balloon drifting eastward; as the wreckage drifted toward shore.
2. To proceed or move unhurriedly and smoothly: drifting among the party guests.
3. To move leisurely or sporadically from place to place, especially without purpose or regular employment: a day laborer, drifting from town to town.
4.
1. To wander from a set course or point of attention; stray.
2. To vary from or oscillate randomly about a fixed setting, position, or mode of operation.
5. To be piled up in banks or heaps by the force of a current: snow drifting to five feet.
v. tr.
1. To cause to be carried in a current: drifting the logs downstream.
2. To pile up in banks or heaps: Wind drifted the loose straw against the barn.
3. Western U.S. To drive (livestock) slowly or far afield, especially for grazing.
n.
1. The act or condition of drifting.
2. Something moving along in a current of air or water.
3. A bank or pile, as of sand or snow, heaped up by currents of air or water.
4. Geology. Rock debris transported and deposited by or from ice, especially by or from a glacier.
5.
1. A general trend or tendency, as of opinion. See Synonyms at tendency.
2. General meaning or purport; tenor: caught the drift of the conversation.
6.
1. A gradual change in position.
2. A gradual deviation from an original course, model, method, or intention.
3. Variation or random oscillation about a fixed setting, position, or mode of behavior.
7. A gradual change in the output of a circuit or amplifier.
8. The rate of flow of a water current.
9.
1. A tool for ramming or driving something down.
2. A tapered steel pin for enlarging and aligning holes.
10.
1. A horizontal or nearly horizontal passageway in a mine running through or parallel to a vein.
2. A secondary mine passageway between two main shafts or tunnels.
11. A drove or herd, especially of swine. See Synonyms at flock1.
[From Middle English, drove, herd, act of driving. See dhreibh- in Indo-European Roots.]drifty adj.
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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
DRIFTING
Drift \Drift\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Drifted; p. pr. & vb. n. Drifting.] 1. To float or be driven along by, or as by, a current of water or air; as, the ship drifted astern; a raft drifted ashore; the balloon drifts slowly east.
We drifted o'er the harbor bar. -- Coleridge.
2. To accumulate in heaps by the force of wind; to be driven into heaps; as, snow or sand drifts.
3. (mining) to make a drift; to examine a vein or ledge for the purpose of ascertaining the presence of metals or ores; to follow a vein; to prospect. [U.S.]
[Free Trial - Merriam-Webster Unabridged.]
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
DRIFTING
adj 1: continually changing especially as from one abode or occupation to another; "a drifting double-dealer"; "the floating population"; "vagrant hippies of the sixties" [syn: aimless, floating, vagabond, vagrant] 2: afloat on the surface of a body of water; "after the storm the boats were adrift" [syn: adrift(p), drifting(a)] n : aimless wandering from place to place
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
1. To be carried along by currents of air or water: a balloon drifting eastward; as the wreckage drifted toward shore.
2. To proceed or move unhurriedly and smoothly: drifting among the party guests.
3. To move leisurely or sporadically from place to place, especially without purpose or regular employment: a day laborer, drifting from town to town.
4.
1. To wander from a set course or point of attention; stray.
2. To vary from or oscillate randomly about a fixed setting, position, or mode of operation.
5. To be piled up in banks or heaps by the force of a current: snow drifting to five feet.
v. tr.
1. To cause to be carried in a current: drifting the logs downstream.
2. To pile up in banks or heaps: Wind drifted the loose straw against the barn.
3. Western U.S. To drive (livestock) slowly or far afield, especially for grazing.
n.
1. The act or condition of drifting.
2. Something moving along in a current of air or water.
3. A bank or pile, as of sand or snow, heaped up by currents of air or water.
4. Geology. Rock debris transported and deposited by or from ice, especially by or from a glacier.
5.
1. A general trend or tendency, as of opinion. See Synonyms at tendency.
2. General meaning or purport; tenor: caught the drift of the conversation.
6.
1. A gradual change in position.
2. A gradual deviation from an original course, model, method, or intention.
3. Variation or random oscillation about a fixed setting, position, or mode of behavior.
7. A gradual change in the output of a circuit or amplifier.
8. The rate of flow of a water current.
9.
1. A tool for ramming or driving something down.
2. A tapered steel pin for enlarging and aligning holes.
10.
1. A horizontal or nearly horizontal passageway in a mine running through or parallel to a vein.
2. A secondary mine passageway between two main shafts or tunnels.
11. A drove or herd, especially of swine. See Synonyms at flock1.
[From Middle English, drove, herd, act of driving. See dhreibh- in Indo-European Roots.]drifty adj.
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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
DRIFTING
Drift \Drift\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Drifted; p. pr. & vb. n. Drifting.] 1. To float or be driven along by, or as by, a current of water or air; as, the ship drifted astern; a raft drifted ashore; the balloon drifts slowly east.
We drifted o'er the harbor bar. -- Coleridge.
2. To accumulate in heaps by the force of wind; to be driven into heaps; as, snow or sand drifts.
3. (mining) to make a drift; to examine a vein or ledge for the purpose of ascertaining the presence of metals or ores; to follow a vein; to prospect. [U.S.]
[Free Trial - Merriam-Webster Unabridged.]
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
DRIFTING
adj 1: continually changing especially as from one abode or occupation to another; "a drifting double-dealer"; "the floating population"; "vagrant hippies of the sixties" [syn: aimless, floating, vagabond, vagrant] 2: afloat on the surface of a body of water; "after the storm the boats were adrift" [syn: adrift(p), drifting(a)] n : aimless wandering from place to place
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
08-07-2004 | 08:08 AM
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From: singapore, SINGAPORE
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
but you see my friends, its all the same. physics, math, speed all is forgotten when you are having fun and lookin stylin. which is pretty much what both sizes of drifting are about.
my .02
my .02
12-16-2004 | 09:31 AM
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From: , AUSTRALIA
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
Why this big divide towards RC Drift
I don’t want to stereotype people but the way I see it, there are two trains of thought towards RC ‘Drifting’:
Most people do RC Drifting for the fun of it, to improve their skills and for the challenge of it. They try to encourage others to do it, and share tips/tricks to get the perfect ‘drift’.
The other type of people, like to post here, thinking they are all hot, because they know something about real drifting, or they can drift in real cars, so they cuss RC ‘drifters’ for trying to have a go at something new and talk about 4WD Drifting and ABS/PVC as cheating.
I agree that Drifting is awesome, and I have a good friend that does drifting (very new in Australia), but I have no intention to try it, as I probably would kill the car, and myself in the process. RC ‘drifting’ is a completely different thing, so don’t get them confused! There are NO similarities between 1:1 Drifting and RC Drifting. They are completely different, but instead of cussing people who try to drive drift, in RC or Real Life, why not work together to make both more fun and joyful. And to quote WhiskyVR-4
“the problem is that "drifting," in true racing terms, refers specifically to maximizing traction by increasing the tire slip angle (to a point), and is primarily a matter of contact patch distortion and sidewall deflection. It is not quite the same sort of "drift" we are talking about here.â€
Maybe if he explains it in more depth, we can all understand the difference between the two, and all learn something in the process.
I am new to both Drifting and RC Drifting, and my view is neutral at the moment.
But I am sick of looking on these forums and finding people arguing on trivial matters!
I don’t want to stereotype people but the way I see it, there are two trains of thought towards RC ‘Drifting’:
Most people do RC Drifting for the fun of it, to improve their skills and for the challenge of it. They try to encourage others to do it, and share tips/tricks to get the perfect ‘drift’.
The other type of people, like to post here, thinking they are all hot, because they know something about real drifting, or they can drift in real cars, so they cuss RC ‘drifters’ for trying to have a go at something new and talk about 4WD Drifting and ABS/PVC as cheating.
I agree that Drifting is awesome, and I have a good friend that does drifting (very new in Australia), but I have no intention to try it, as I probably would kill the car, and myself in the process. RC ‘drifting’ is a completely different thing, so don’t get them confused! There are NO similarities between 1:1 Drifting and RC Drifting. They are completely different, but instead of cussing people who try to drive drift, in RC or Real Life, why not work together to make both more fun and joyful. And to quote WhiskyVR-4
“the problem is that "drifting," in true racing terms, refers specifically to maximizing traction by increasing the tire slip angle (to a point), and is primarily a matter of contact patch distortion and sidewall deflection. It is not quite the same sort of "drift" we are talking about here.â€
Maybe if he explains it in more depth, we can all understand the difference between the two, and all learn something in the process.
I am new to both Drifting and RC Drifting, and my view is neutral at the moment.
But I am sick of looking on these forums and finding people arguing on trivial matters!
12-16-2004 | 02:15 PM
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From: Izmir , TURKEY
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
ORIGINAL: hpi drift fever
record holder for longest drift is a wrx ALL WHEEL DRIVE.
record holder for longest drift is a wrx ALL WHEEL DRIVE.
12-16-2004 | 11:43 PM
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From: , CA
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
well said kucheg
in my opinion, rcu doesn't have a very wide r/c drift enthusiast audience... i see a lot of flames here and such. i don't mean to say that there are only jerks here... there are plenty of cool people, but also some of the most idiotic people i have seen on any forum.. try [link=http://www.rcdrift.com]www.rcdrift.com[/link] the people there are generally much more supportive about r/c drifting. none of that bashing going on there.
r/c in general whether it is on-road, off road, grip, or drift, should be fun. alot of people forget about that when they come to forums such as these and start throwing around insults and labels, trying to brag about skills or cars they might not even have. and when a newcomer to r/c goes to these forums and sees the lack of support within the r/c community, it really turns them off. is this what r/c has turned into? c'mon all you flamers out there, its about time we all matured and start having some fun instead of arguing
oh yea, the rcdrift.com its a forum dedicated just to drifting, so you'll find much more info there and a more responsive community
[sm=biggrin.gif]
in my opinion, rcu doesn't have a very wide r/c drift enthusiast audience... i see a lot of flames here and such. i don't mean to say that there are only jerks here... there are plenty of cool people, but also some of the most idiotic people i have seen on any forum.. try [link=http://www.rcdrift.com]www.rcdrift.com[/link] the people there are generally much more supportive about r/c drifting. none of that bashing going on there.
r/c in general whether it is on-road, off road, grip, or drift, should be fun. alot of people forget about that when they come to forums such as these and start throwing around insults and labels, trying to brag about skills or cars they might not even have. and when a newcomer to r/c goes to these forums and sees the lack of support within the r/c community, it really turns them off. is this what r/c has turned into? c'mon all you flamers out there, its about time we all matured and start having some fun instead of arguing
oh yea, the rcdrift.com its a forum dedicated just to drifting, so you'll find much more info there and a more responsive community
[sm=biggrin.gif]
12-17-2004 | 12:45 AM
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From: , AUSTRALIA
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
Yeh, that was one of the first forums I visited when looking for info about RC drift. But I guess you get immature people and flamers everywhere. Just remember, forums are all about opinions, not fact.
Thats my .02
Thats my .02
12-18-2004 | 08:38 AM
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From: Fort Walton Beach,
FL
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
ORIGINAL: cossie
wrong it is the JUN toyota supra
ORIGINAL: hpi drift fever
record holder for longest drift is a wrx ALL WHEEL DRIVE.
record holder for longest drift is a wrx ALL WHEEL DRIVE.
And to me, RC anything will never be the same as 1:1, simply because each require a different skill set. Sliding a car is fun either way.
12-19-2004 | 03:27 AM
#11
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
i think any kind of drifting is pretty cool[8D]
i really miss my Nissan Silvia with big Turbo as that was probably the most fun car i ever had
everybody needs to remember that this is a Hobby & its supposed to be fun
i really miss my Nissan Silvia with big Turbo as that was probably the most fun car i ever had
everybody needs to remember that this is a Hobby & its supposed to be fun
01-09-2005 | 05:14 AM
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From: santa clarita,
CA,
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
Wow, this is an old thread. It seems out of context now. I wrote it because people kept saying ignorant things like "its not REAL drifting unless you have blah blah blah."
I wasn't bashing rc drifting. Not in the least, I love it.
I'm also a sponsored, competitive 1:1 drifter (see www.land-ho.net).
Drifting is drifting. Its all about getting sideways and staying sideways. Its about show and style, and not much else.
I left this board for half a year because of the haters and the losers that either a) bash drifting or b) think they know everything. I see they are still here (thats not pointed at anyone on this thread in particular).
I wasn't bashing rc drifting. Not in the least, I love it.
I'm also a sponsored, competitive 1:1 drifter (see www.land-ho.net).
Drifting is drifting. Its all about getting sideways and staying sideways. Its about show and style, and not much else.
I left this board for half a year because of the haters and the losers that either a) bash drifting or b) think they know everything. I see they are still here (thats not pointed at anyone on this thread in particular).
01-09-2005 | 12:13 PM
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From: sac,
CA
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
wow NICE i had no idea there was another person on here who was actually thinking about the physics/weight and numerous other reason why it is illogical to try to say there is ANY way to duplicate 1:1 drifting.
this is from a post abotu a week ago from me
this is from a post abotu a week ago from me
but the people that complain about how abs is fake are complete hypocrites. i explaiend in that other thread. even with a nitro car, its still completely fake and is not realistically duplicating real drifting. it only looks like it. but theres nothign wrong with that.
anyways. everyone everywhere needs to stop saying using abs/pvc is fake. the fact is there is NO POSSIBLE way to drift a RC like a REAL drifter.
its a super fun way to spend yoru rc time. and TONS cheaper that havign to buy super hot motors/esc/batts just so you can destroy 20 dollar tires every run.
using abs/pvc is the SMART way to drift
glad to see not everyone is on the whole "abs/pvc is fake" bandwagon. its getting old and will die out as people realize andn think about weight transfer/physics/weight placement etc in a RC and see that no matter what you do with a RC you can never ACTUALLY duplicate 1:1 drifting. all you can do is make it LOOK the same (same goes for real tires, all your doing is making it look the same, using real tires doesnt change that you still cant copy real drifting no matter what with rc)
fact of the matter is ITS FUN and with abs/pvc you can do it super cheap! so everyone keep on driftin!
anyways. everyone everywhere needs to stop saying using abs/pvc is fake. the fact is there is NO POSSIBLE way to drift a RC like a REAL drifter.
its a super fun way to spend yoru rc time. and TONS cheaper that havign to buy super hot motors/esc/batts just so you can destroy 20 dollar tires every run.
using abs/pvc is the SMART way to drift
glad to see not everyone is on the whole "abs/pvc is fake" bandwagon. its getting old and will die out as people realize andn think about weight transfer/physics/weight placement etc in a RC and see that no matter what you do with a RC you can never ACTUALLY duplicate 1:1 drifting. all you can do is make it LOOK the same (same goes for real tires, all your doing is making it look the same, using real tires doesnt change that you still cant copy real drifting no matter what with rc)
fact of the matter is ITS FUN and with abs/pvc you can do it super cheap! so everyone keep on driftin!
01-11-2005 | 07:21 PM
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From: , ON, CANADA
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
I thought I would add my 2 cents as I have NO experience with rc drifting but what about the new stage D conversion kit for the rs4-3 cars??? It looks like the engine is now in the middle of the car with a near 50/50 weight distribution. With a solid rear axle, I am sure this must be closer to real drifting!!! Anyway, who cares...drifting is drifting!!!
01-11-2005 | 08:32 PM
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From: Cambridge, ON, CANADA
RE: Why R/C drifting isn't the same as 1:1 drifting
ORIGINAL: WhiskyVR-4
Drifting is drifting. Its all about getting sideways and staying sideways. Its about show and style, and not much else.
Drifting is drifting. Its all about getting sideways and staying sideways. Its about show and style, and not much else.
