I need some tips
 

Ive been drifting for about a week and could use some tips.... I can do a basic turn and thats about it.... Just looking for advice

Don't "force" drifts. The set-up of the car is also VERY important. The steering servo should be a fast one - at least .10 transit speed or faster. That makes initiating drifts and controlling them easier. Power should be applied smoothly and slowly.


The most important thing to remember is, not to force drifts. Drifting is a very fine tuned style of driving, where small mistakes will look bad, and make your drifts look sloppy. Practice drifting in a circle. Practice until you can make near-perfect circles, time after time. Use something like a coke can to drift around.
Once you feel comfortable that you can do circles consistently, graduate to figure eights. Practice here is the key. If you get tired, take a break. You might be able to drift what you believe to be fantastic one day, and can't drift the way you want, the next, so it's not something that you should expect will be an everyday thing. If you find you aren't doing drifts well, put the transmitter down and try again the next day. Don't get frustrated if you can't learn as fast as you want. It takes a while to become proficient. I have been at it for seven years, and am no "expert."

Just be patient.

Ok thanks for the advice and is it normal for one of the front wheeles to sit still during a drift while the oter three are spinning?

No.

There's something wrong with the front diff. If you're running a one-way, the bearing needs to be looked at, and most likely cleaned.

Hi there, how is everyone.. I have literally just joined in the last few days and to introduce myself I have been building and driving various Rc cars for a long time.


I have had various Tamiya mini coopers, Tamiya ford cosworths, a volvo and a vauxhal vectra, with a range of 4x4 chassis, front wheel drive and rear wheel drive set ups..


My lastest project I have been working on is a Tamita Ta06 Pro Chassic. I have been modifying this and working on it for over a year and a half now and its starting to look realy great.


I have a blue R32 vw Golf shell on it
I have the front and rear blue alloy bulk heads and rear chassis stiffener
A locked diff
Blue alloy steering assembly
Carbon fibre reinforced chassis parts
A fusion Exceed Sport 13.5 turn brushless sensored motor and ESC
A Overlander 4250 lipo battery pack
A front one way alloy centre pully
Blue alloy TRF shocks
Blue alloy servo holder
Blue alloy brake discs and shoes
Blue alloy invisable shell supports but soon changing to black alloy
The outter front pully is changed to an alloy one
Blue alloy wheel lock nuts
A Carbon fibre quick release batter holder
A blue alloy servo saver horn
TA06 stabilizer set
Blue alloy damper spacers
The front pully holder is changed to a blue alloy one.
A fast steering servo with metal internal cogs
Hard radial slick drifting tyres
And tempted to get A GV model lipo saver cut off switch connected between the receiver and battery


And on their way are a nice set of proper alloy wheels in gun mental grey




Thank you

That first link has been removed, but the second, no, that wouldn't be a good idea. One-ways remove brake and reverse from that set of wheels. If you already have a front one way, a second one will remove all brakes. The entire idea of the "hand brake" effect with a one-way is gone.

Also, though a front center one-way pulley works O.K., a front one-way diff works better, because all the center pulley one-way does, is make a standard diff work in only one direction. and the diff still has "diff action," meaning only one front wheel is driving at any time. A front one-way drives BOTH front wheels independently, which is much more efficient and for drift, control is much improved.

The TA06 would also benefit from a good carbon chassis conversion kit. The Exotek or RSector conversions are good. I have an RSector conversion on my TA06, and it is stiff, and very well made, all for $80 US! A couple of pics, below....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1933268http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1933269http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1933270http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1933271

cheers for your advise and comments, the r sector looks great but I really like the look of the ifs suspension set up and would like to keep it..

would it it be good to put a front one way diff in with my front centre one way pully for maximum effect? Something like the front one way counter steer cs drift pully which is blue alloy and grey?

The first link was just a link to show the alloy 18t pully that I've got for the outer front pully, with the front one way in the centre... I was wondering if the alloy 18t pully fits behind the spur gear to replace the standard plastic one that is on the chassis

i have carbon reinforced black chassis parts already but if I was a serious drifter I guess I would go for the fully carbon conversion

cheers

A couple of things on the IFS - First, The RSector and Exotek conversions have the IFS feature, so you can use either that, or the "stand up" shock version.
On the IFS, itself....the reasons are personal, but the IFS is harder to adjust right. It is heavily dependent on correct shock spring rate, and damping, to get right. The stand up shock set up is set and forget. I know it looks cool, but isn't a good choice for drift. Still, if you MUST have it, both carbon conversions support it.
Another reason I suggest a carbon conversion is, either of those conversions don't bottom-load the battery. The Exotek is a side-load, and the RSector is top-load. MUCH better and convenient arrangements.

It won't make any difference, having both a center and front one-way. They do not "complement" each other. They both have the same function, but give different results. Having both, however, won't hurt anything. I have a Tamiya TA05 VDF (the original first edition run), with a 1.60 CS kit installed. That came with a center one way pulley, and it is redundant, meaning it has no real purpose, since the front "diff" is already a one way.

Thats good to know about the conversion chassis kits, thanks... But still advisable to lock the front diff and use the front one way in combination?


No one seems to be able to tell me if there is an aluminium 18t replacement for the rear spur that the big black spur sits on at the rear of the chassis?. I have replaced the outer front spur to an 18t alloy equivalent so would I be right in assuming the rear one is the same as this one..

No.
The center one way lets the front diff act the same as it always does - drive one wheel - the one with the least traction. The front one-way drives BOTH front wheels, independently, which improves control. Having both a center and front one way is redundant, because they DO NOT complement each other. The extra one way is just more complication, that's all.

If you want to locate CS parts for the TA06, try CS Junkies. You might be able to get some sources for parts there. The TA06, however, doesn't have much available for it, at the moment. You can also try a vendor that goes by the moniker "kaw218" on Ebay. H sells CS parts for different manufacturers. He might be back selling, as he took a break for a bit. Check to see if he's back up. He's the one I got that 1.60 CS kit for my VDF from.

Ah ok, so how does it complicate it if you lock the front diff and use a centre one way with it.... Sorry about my endless questions but I'm only beginning to learn about drifting

im just purely wanting to replace the rear plastic gear that the drive belt sits on to an alloy equivalent, surely there must be as alloy one available for the rear as there is one available for the front outer spur that the belt dust on!

I have re read your comment and it makes sense, one increases control and the other decreases... Thanks :-)

Well, the differences are that the front one-way drives both front wheels independently, meaning they drive at different rates, regardless of whether the car turns left or right. Remember....during turning, the inside wheel turns at a slower rate than the outside wheel. The front one way compensates for this difference, and still drives both wheels, whereas a differential drives only one, at any one time. A locked front diff spins both front wheels equally, which also doesn't make up for the difference in wheelspin in turns.
In a 50/50 drifter, it makes no difference, but since CS overdrives the rear wheels, this difference is magnified because the wheels are turned in the direction of the drift.
Having two one ways on the same end complicates things only mechanically. The extra one way is a redundancy, meaning there is no purpose for it to be there, but it doesn't hurt performance any. If you have a front one-way and a center one way pulley, the extra one way does not add to performance, just mechanical complexity.

And I wouldn't get stuck on trying to find aluminum equivalents for all the pulleys. It sometimes isn't possible. I have 50/50 and CS chassis that have pulleys made of different materials on the same chassis. As long as they do their intended purpose, it doesn't matter what they're made of. Once the body is mounted, no one can see them, anyway.
CS kits address the pulleys required to change the ratio of whatever model they are made for, so if you are having trouble finding an aluminum pulley, it's probably a good bet that it isn't a required pulley that needs changing. Still, another source to try is Eagle Racing. They make CS kits for almost everything belt driven out there.

Thanks for that advice, ok so I'll stick to my standard diff at front with my front centre one way as from what you are saying that is enough to do the job?

I guessbi was was trying to change as many of the mechanical plastic parts as possible for durability reasons, as well as appearance but that's fair enough if they aren't available, it does seem strange that they are available for the front if the chassis but not the rear. I will check out eagle racing.

What I was trying to say is, that a front one way by itself is sufficient. A front one way is the thing to have. A front one way and center one way are much the same in operation, but not purpose. A standard diff and center one way are not as efficient, nor will control the front wheels of a CS drifter, as a front one way alone.
A front one way AND center one way are the redundancy, meaning the center one way is not required, but won't hurt anything, nor add to the front one way's duties. So, even if you have a center one way pulley, without a front one way, it will NOT be as efficient as a front one way, period. The "hand brake" effect is still there, but the independent front wheel drive aspect is not, and that's where the extra control comes from.
I hope that made it a bit clearer.

Yah, try Eagle Racing. If you can't find the pulley you're looking for, it probably isn't available anywhere, because it isn't a required pulley for CS conversion.

Thank you for the information, a well I have the centre in way now and like I say, I am a total novice and will only be using the car occasionally... I'm sure these things are more important for serious drifters and not a total beginner like moi

Well, if you are CS'ing your TA06, the front one way will be one of the options that make it easier to learn CS, otherwise, you get inconsistent performance. It's why, everywhere you look, all CS'ed chassis run front one ways. It matters not whether you will use it occasionally......it's all about consistency, and without it, there is no smoothness, either, and that's what CS drifting is all about.


It has even more importance, if you are not going to be drifting regularly! take my word for it.....I drift usually only during winters.....I appreciate that when I break them out, I can expect the same performance from all of them, since all of them, whether 50/50 or CS, all perform the same, every year, since they all have front one ways.

Ok then I shall make it one of my next purchases and take the centre one way out then,

with the front one way do you still get the front without braking like you do with the centre one way?

and just m totally clear, the front one way isn't a diff lock?

and why have the centre one way if the front one way is so much better for cs drifting ?

thanks very much

Yes, the loss of brakes at the front wheels will be the same, but you don't have to remove the center one way. It just becomes redundant, but has no effect otherwise. I run a front and center one way on my VDF, and the center one way has no effect. The front one way is the important thing......you definitely want more control of the front end, and the front one way allows that, where the center one way doesn't, primarily because a standard front diff is still there, and that was the part I've been trying to tell you is the one that should be replaced. :)

Ok cool, how does the front one way work to allow more control? Please explain in simple terms, remember I am just a total notice, :-)I really appreciate your time and patience with me! And..... how does the centre one way become redundant in combination, with the front one way?

No prob!

I really don't mind, as sometimes, concepts like these are hard to explain. I have included a couple of pics to help.

Notice the first pic.....

See the center pulleys? those are Eagle Racing ones, and the small one behind the one marked "24T" is a one way. The front one way is already mounted, and as you can see, is running a stock plastic pulley. The center one way is redundant - meaning it has no purpose outside of being a drive pulley, so it's removal isn't necessary, because the front one way is already performing the function you want.

The second pic shows the rear Eagle Racing rear pulley, that, in combination with both center pulleys, increases overdrive to 1.60.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1933609http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1933610

O.K., a standard differential works exactly the same as in a full-size car. It drives only one wheel, whether right or left, depending on conditions. The thing to understand about a diff is, the wheel being driven is the one with the least drag on it, or the one with the least amount of traction available to it.
Now....understanding that, the reasons for this are that when cornering, the inside wheel will be turning at a slower rate than the outside wheel. this is why it is called a differential. To accommodate the differences in wheelspeed, between the inside and outside wheels. What a differential will NOT do, is drive both wheels equally, which is what drift depends on, especially CS drift (a little on that, later).

What the center one way, with a standard front diff does, is remove the brakes at the front wheels. That's all. The diff still acts as described above, driving only one wheel - the one with the least amount of traction, and you lose front brakes in the bargain. Not so great.

Now.....The front one way drives BOTH wheels INDEPENDENTLY. Meaning they both still drive at the same time, but being independently driven also accommodates the differences in wheelspeed, between the inside and outside wheels, and what that does, is increase control of the front of the car, by making drive forces equal to both wheels, when throttle is applied or maintained.
A CS'ed car, without a front one way's equal drive in both front wheels will be inconsistent, because the rear wheels, being overdriven, are "pushing" against what "grip" the front wheels have, and as you no doubt have already seen, is the low friction coefficient of drift tires, so there isn't much, to begin with. So....with this constant pushing against the front wheels, you want the best and most amount of control of the front of the car, and the front one way does this, better than any other type of "diff" available (even a spool, which will also drive both front wheels, but doesn't have that independent drive characteristic of each wheel, like a front one way does).

Let me know if that helps, because it's good to understand these concepts, so you know what you need, or don't need.

that is is very clear and easily understood, I hadn't rc drifting would get so technical but I'm very interested and finding it fun.

my question to follow would be, how does the front one way alone perform the no braking mode that the centre one way does that I currently have...

Everything else I understand perfectly now, thank you

Thanks again

LOL! :)

Somehow, I KNEW that was going to be your next question! :D

O.K.,...The front one way is called a one way, because of the two one way bearings in it. One for each side, or wheel. Each one way bearing will drive in one direction, but freewheel in the other, which is why brakes don't work, and reverse, too.

The center one way pulley has only one, one way bearing in it, but performs the same function, and allows whatever is mounted in front of it, whether a standard differential, spool or one way, to act as they were intended, but in forward mode only. This is why I say the center one way is redundant, when combined with a front one way. You still get forward drive, but the front one way is already performing it's duties, and still has that same forward drive/rear freewheel effect, so the center one way is just an extra function that is not needed, but doesn't negatively affect anything else, otherwise.

Confusing, but once you get the idea of how each component works, not that hard to grasp. :)

Ok so just so I've grasped it, everything works as intended in forward mode but becomes fully 4x4 drive in reverse as everything locks up as it is only a forward driving function.

And lastly, where did you get you wee fake exhaust and is it attached to the chassis or body? If I could rate members on here you would definitely get a million stars, cheers man

I will have to upload pics of my chassis when I get it fully sorted


Just out of curiosity is there a massive difference when just locking up the front and having full 4x4 driving in forward and reverse?

Nah, I wouldn't say "massive," but a difference, nonetheless. The area it will be noticed is in transitions (going from left to right, or right to left). There is also no "hand brake" effect, which is pretty important with CS drift chassis.

I'd like to see pics! :)

I'll stick to my cs'ing, where did you get your wee exhaust and is it attached to body or chassis?

That's an HPI item, as are the mirrors and rear wing. They are all attached to the body.

I also used mirrored chrome mylar tape for the mirrors and edges of the wing. You can get that from an LHS that stocks planes. It's kind of pricey, though......

It's a shame someone didn't have a spare one because I don't want the full kit with mirrors, just an exhaust

I can't post a link (guess I don't know enough about laptops yet), but the kit part number is "LXTGZ4" at Tower hobbies. They are out-of-stock at the moment, but I'm sure it's available elsewhere.

And TQRC Racing also sells a body set kit like the HPI one, from Tamiya, but all of them completely outfit a body. You may find just an exhaust tip, so try taking a look at TQRC. I shop with them about once a month, and they are reliable and a bit less expensive than most larger online outlets.

thanks :-)

I have just purchased the front on way cs drifting diff, following all this great advise... Ill hopefully not have to wait weeks for it.. the waiting for purchases almost kills me lol

i was think about getting these for my cs drifter as I assume the more teeth the smoother the transmission? Or are less teeth and more torque better?

A couple of things - First, you might have it wrong way 'round, with gearing. There is very little room in the motor bay of the TA06 for excessive gearing changes, and the stock spur is the same one used in their FF03 FWD. It is rather small, and the pinion being of a size that will fit. What size motor are you running, at the moment?

Ideally, you should have a 17.5T if it's brushless (BL) or something like a 27T brushed. Those are smooth, and drift doesn't require tons of RPM, so they are also very easy to modulate, which makes them perfectly suited to drifting. I run the stock spur with a 34T pinion, with a 17.5T BL motor. You would only change gearing, if the present gearing was making the throttle response too quick or too slow.

Currently I have the stock 68t spur with a 22t pinion, but I've bought a 102t spur and a 28t and 29t pinion to try out to see if it makes much difference... But was tempted to try the the white spur in the link I provided previously too.....I have a 13.5 sensored brushless fusion exceed sport combo which I don't intend to change as it was pretty expensive for me being novice boy :-)

Yah, well, in that case, lowering you final drive ratio (FDR) will work to your benefit. It's a disturbing trend I see in the US, with overpowered systems being purchased and used in the wrong applications. I don't mean you so much, as 13.5T is not bad, and is easily compensated for, but those who would buy what is comparable to a 6.5T, then when they have problems with drifting, will then modify the chassis, rather than replace the motor, which is where their problems originate, in the first place.

In your case, it would make a difference, if it will fit. As stated before, there is very little room for motor adjustment in the TA06 motor bay, so with the new spur, which is a dead-on choice, btw, just find a pinion that will fit. Again, you are looking for the best combination to enhance smoothness of power delivery, than anything else. Go ahead and try it, and let us know how it work out! :)

Yes I didnt want to go lower than 13.5t as I knew it would be far too fast, but I thought 17t or there about would be too slow, but then I'm not experienced to comment so I thought something mid range would be ok...

What would the difference be between the 68t spur paired with the 22t pinion and my new options on there way being the tamiya 102t spur with the 29t pinion.... Was I right in thinking the more teeth the smoother the power transfer, or will it speed the car up, being not necessarily want I want?

is the standard set up the better option and what is the difference between the black tamiya 102t I've bought, over the 122t in the link I showed you above?

thanks

A few things....

A larger spur in combination with smaller pinion than what comes stock in the kit will lower the output, and will be slower, but conversely, speed is not a concern with drifting, as smoothness is the most important factor.

There are differences when talking about 48P and 64P gears. 64P will be MUCH smoother, with less gear noise, but prone to damage from grit. pebbles, rocks, etc., much easier than 48P. I, myself, prefer 64P, because I drift in clean swept areas, so grit, pebbles, etc., aren't a concern.

The big thing here is, to match the gearing with the power system, which makes power system choice important. I have recommended the 17.5T BL for drift everywhere, yet am inundated with those who believe they know better, and get overpowered systems. I tend not to talk to those people, when they begin asking for solutions, when they find their choice a bad one, but will not correct it. Yours, as stated earlier, is not ideal, but not so overpowered, that it can't be compensated. Your spur choice is a good one, so you're well on your way to making your TA06 perform the way it should.
Just remember.....once the proper motor choice is made, gearing is used primarily to make small adjustments to power delivery, to suit the driver's preferences. In your case, the power system is only slightly overpowered, so your compensation won't be much, but your adjustment parameters are smaller, because the extra power of the 13.5T take up the upper half of that adjustment range, follow?
It's why the spur choice you are contemplating is a good one, coupled with a smaller pinion. You might even go smaller on the pinion, but experiment, and see which combination works for you.

What does pitch mean?
can you explain why my choice is a good one with my motor?
(Believe it or not I was advised by guys in a professional rc car company that 13.5 was ideal for drifting, hence going for it in the first place)
explain: take up the upper half of adjustment range
and my standard pinion is 22t and I'm buying a 28t and 29t pinion, you call the higher number smaller?

sorry for not following you completely as I am trying to get my novice head around all of this, you got over the hurdle re front one way last night so this is number two hurdle lol....

Pitch is the angle of each tooth (also related to the size of the teeth themselves) on a given gear like a pinion or spur gear. As pitch sizes go, 32 is the coarsest, meaning the teeth are large, and engagement more positive. These are usually used for 1/8th scale and off-road. 48 pitch is the overall standard for nearly all RC manufacturers. Nearly every RTR you're likely to buy will come with 48 pitch gears. 64 pitch is the finest, with the smallest teeth, and is normally used for on-road, and are usually found on indoor racing chassis.

Your spur choice is ideal because it lowers the overall power output. That 13.5T motor is overpowered for drift, regardless of what you've been told. It's not majorly overpowered, which is why I say you can compensate for it, by lowering your FDR. This would not even be an issue, if we were talking about 50/50 drift, but we're not. CS has limitations, and the smoothest power output is the most important. Unlike 50/50 drift, CS steering inputs are, by comparison, smaller and more frequent. With an overpowered power system, you are not just trying to steer smoothly, but the power output is fighting you, every step of the way. What you are trying to do, is match power output to steering, so both work in unison, rather than have two systems that are at odds with each other. Take what I said about overdrive "pushing" against the front wheels....That's a part of what I'm describing. You are already working with that against you. That's where smooth power delivery is important, and slower systems provide that smoothness. The 17.5T BL system has been found to be the ideal for drift, and is also the standard for most stock racing classes, too.

My suspicion is that you were pushed to buy that 13.5T system, because 13.5T is going the way of the dinosaur. Racing classes that use 13.5T are slowly disappearing, and most shops want to get rid of their stock of that rating any way they can. In a sense, you can take what you were told, about that 13.5T system, is just a part of that.

O.K., when I say "take up the upper half of adjustment range," do this:

Draw a line down a piece of paper. The left half will be labeled "13.5T." The right half will be labeled "17.5T" Now draw a line down the middle of the right half. There should be two lines on the paper now. Now fold the paper in half, so all that shows is the right half. Now....the paper to the left of the line is the upper half of your adjustment range (as regards spur/pinion choice). That's what that 13.5T system takes up, in adjustment capability. There is an upper and lower adjustment range with every motor size. What you have done, with the 13.5T system, is take up the upper half (designated by the left half of that 17.5T labeled side) of the 17.5T adjustment range.
You are now left with fewer choices, to adjust your power output, follow? Each motor has an adjustment range. When motor choice is not ideal, whichever end of the power spectrum the choice is (in your case, it was 13.5T, or the upper half of 17.5T, the lower half would be a 21.5T motor) takes away from your available choices. In other words, the right half of the paper now doesn't apply to you, any longer. This is the adjustment range that is lost, with the 13.5T motor.

If you are running a 22T pinion as stock, just get the spur. Try that first.

Thanks for all of that and I think i understand most of it..

I did get the Spur, being the 102t Black Tamiya spur and then realised it doesnt fit with the 22t pinion as the pinon's teeth are too chuncky and wide for the finer teeth of the spur.. hense going for the new 29t pinion.

Damn Modelsport for selling me a 13.5t motor!! it is confusing to begin though as alot of american web forums indicate alot of drifters runing anything from 5.5 to 10.5motors (which in agreement with you doesnt make sense) but yet some others are suggesting the 17t to 21t motors.. ahh well i will have to live with what i have now as I dont have a limitless budget... I guess i could buy an eurgle drift assist to make my drifting more fun untill I get a 17.5t brushless system. (who says cheating isnt fun too hehe)

How does the spur with more finer teeth lower power output?

Cheers ( have you ever thought about starting your own blog/magazine because you clearly know your stuff)