B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
12-05-2007, 01:07 PM
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B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Got my toe-in and toe-out adjusted for the track.
Gonna hit it at pratice tonight. WED, and Friday Jay has practice in Reo IN.
I'll be sure to post action pics on another thread.
Gonna hit it at pratice tonight. WED, and Friday Jay has practice in Reo IN.
I'll be sure to post action pics on another thread.
12-05-2007, 02:38 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
A little off topic, but I ordered another charger that updates the 959 charger.
Be cool to have 2 chargers so I can now charge 2 packs at once....
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRST9&P=ML
Be cool to have 2 chargers so I can now charge 2 packs at once....
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRST9&P=ML
12-05-2007, 02:57 PM
#5
RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Toe-in on the back is the standard setup on the B44 rear upright, or?
Toe-out up front, I assume...
Do you have a camber gauge? You should get one... !!
Toe-out up front, I assume...
Do you have a camber gauge? You should get one... !!
12-05-2007, 05:18 PM
#6
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer
Is it just the pic or you have positive cambers all around on your B44? [:@]
Is it just the pic or you have positive cambers all around on your B44? [:@]
I spent a good hour just playing with lengths, and I'm still not 100% please, but it's SIGNIFICANTLY better than stock.
12-05-2007, 07:33 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Straight in front. Slight toe-in at the rear. This is the standard setup and IMO just leave it alone. Don't adjust toe to change cornering properties, it is better to properly set the anti-squat. With each toe setting comes a drawback, in addition to the drag, you have to choose between making it easier to enter the corners (FTO) or easier to pull out of them (FTI, RTI). But you can't have it both ways. And FTO can behave a bit wonky on a 4WD setup. Properly set anti-squat, matched to your acceleration and the most difficult turns on the track, can give you both these things -- the ability to enter and leave corners easily, without any tradeoff. If you are between spacers on the desired anti-squat setting, sand or file down some spacers and use those.
12-05-2007, 11:19 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Undertray????? It kept getting dirt hung up in it and then it came off half-way.
U know what I'm gonna just Shoe Goo the darn thing.....will it stay on.....
It got in the way so much the car spun out a few times....[
]
U know what I'm gonna just Shoe Goo the darn thing.....will it stay on.....
It got in the way so much the car spun out a few times....[
]
12-06-2007, 01:22 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Shoe Gooed the undertray last night and I made sure I have holes drilled just in case I wanna change steering servo's later.
This 144 oz metal geared JR servo im using is doing just fine, but might want a digital servo a little later.
I cleaned the car before I shoe gooed the tray.
I'll also remove the rubber band a little later on.
This 144 oz metal geared JR servo im using is doing just fine, but might want a digital servo a little later.
I cleaned the car before I shoe gooed the tray.
I'll also remove the rubber band a little later on.
12-07-2007, 09:47 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
I think I very well got the car dialed in for the track. -2 degrees toe in is just enough to make the turns just perfect.
Things would be different on other tracks though.
Things would be different on other tracks though.
12-22-2007, 02:55 AM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Sorry to post such a n00b question...
But how do you set the toe in with the tolerances you describe (1 deg, 2 deg, -1 deg. etc?)
I find the nylon ball cups to be pretty flimsy material, so I'm using a really wide fine tolerance crescent wrench (about 5 mm wide -- covers about half the usable hex surface of the ball joint part) to hold it in place whilst I turn the turnbuckle on the blue anodized tie-rod with the AE nylon 3.3mm wrench.... Unfortunately, the cheapo nylon wrench stripped or got too weak to hold the Ti turnbuckle. Since the Ti metal part is so soft (relative to cro-mo, for eg) I'm waiting for my machine shop to make me a thick (4.5 mm -- enough to occlude all but the lathed ring groove on the tb) crow's foot 3.3 mm turnbuckle wrench out of softer aluminum.
This seems WAY OVERKILL.
But it's the only option I have been able to find (google 3.3 mm crow's foot, or open ended wrench: nothing).
So much for tooling.... That's gonna be taken care of. How do you guys measure tie-rod length? From inside chamfer of the ball end? Center to Center from the ball joint? /RANT/ Why aren't the ball end connectors made of Ti or Al and just the ball insert made of nylon? I used to have something like this in my RC10s from the 80's /RANT/
My manual does not specify tie-rod lengths, or if it does, it doesn't specify where to measure (I'm assuming you're using a digital caliper for this?!)
And even after measuring tie-rod turnbuckle length... how do you measure degrees of toe-in? In the field? At home in a jig?
I am clueless. Please advise.
-- c
But how do you set the toe in with the tolerances you describe (1 deg, 2 deg, -1 deg. etc?)
I find the nylon ball cups to be pretty flimsy material, so I'm using a really wide fine tolerance crescent wrench (about 5 mm wide -- covers about half the usable hex surface of the ball joint part) to hold it in place whilst I turn the turnbuckle on the blue anodized tie-rod with the AE nylon 3.3mm wrench.... Unfortunately, the cheapo nylon wrench stripped or got too weak to hold the Ti turnbuckle. Since the Ti metal part is so soft (relative to cro-mo, for eg) I'm waiting for my machine shop to make me a thick (4.5 mm -- enough to occlude all but the lathed ring groove on the tb) crow's foot 3.3 mm turnbuckle wrench out of softer aluminum.
This seems WAY OVERKILL.
But it's the only option I have been able to find (google 3.3 mm crow's foot, or open ended wrench: nothing).
So much for tooling.... That's gonna be taken care of. How do you guys measure tie-rod length? From inside chamfer of the ball end? Center to Center from the ball joint? /RANT/ Why aren't the ball end connectors made of Ti or Al and just the ball insert made of nylon? I used to have something like this in my RC10s from the 80's /RANT/
My manual does not specify tie-rod lengths, or if it does, it doesn't specify where to measure (I'm assuming you're using a digital caliper for this?!)
And even after measuring tie-rod turnbuckle length... how do you measure degrees of toe-in? In the field? At home in a jig?
I am clueless. Please advise.
-- c
12-22-2007, 05:03 AM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
ORIGINAL: font9a
Sorry to post such a n00b question...
But how do you set the toe in with the tolerances you describe (1 deg, 2 deg, -1 deg. etc?)
I find the nylon ball cups to be pretty flimsy material, so I'm using a really wide fine tolerance crescent wrench (about 5 mm wide -- covers about half the usable hex surface of the ball joint part) to hold it in place whilst I turn the turnbuckle on the blue anodized tie-rod with the AE nylon 3.3mm wrench.... Unfortunately, the cheapo nylon wrench stripped or got too weak to hold the Ti turnbuckle. Since the Ti metal part is so soft (relative to cro-mo, for eg) I'm waiting for my machine shop to make me a thick (4.5 mm -- enough to occlude all but the lathed ring groove on the tb) crow's foot 3.3 mm turnbuckle wrench out of softer aluminum.
This seems WAY OVERKILL.
But it's the only option I have been able to find (google 3.3 mm crow's foot, or open ended wrench: nothing).
So much for tooling.... That's gonna be taken care of. How do you guys measure tie-rod length? From inside chamfer of the ball end? Center to Center from the ball joint? /RANT/ Why aren't the ball end connectors made of Ti or Al and just the ball insert made of nylon? I used to have something like this in my RC10s from the 80's /RANT/
My manual does not specify tie-rod lengths, or if it does, it doesn't specify where to measure (I'm assuming you're using a digital caliper for this?!)
And even after measuring tie-rod turnbuckle length... how do you measure degrees of toe-in? In the field? At home in a jig?
I am clueless. Please advise.
-- c
Sorry to post such a n00b question...
But how do you set the toe in with the tolerances you describe (1 deg, 2 deg, -1 deg. etc?)
I find the nylon ball cups to be pretty flimsy material, so I'm using a really wide fine tolerance crescent wrench (about 5 mm wide -- covers about half the usable hex surface of the ball joint part) to hold it in place whilst I turn the turnbuckle on the blue anodized tie-rod with the AE nylon 3.3mm wrench.... Unfortunately, the cheapo nylon wrench stripped or got too weak to hold the Ti turnbuckle. Since the Ti metal part is so soft (relative to cro-mo, for eg) I'm waiting for my machine shop to make me a thick (4.5 mm -- enough to occlude all but the lathed ring groove on the tb) crow's foot 3.3 mm turnbuckle wrench out of softer aluminum.
This seems WAY OVERKILL.
But it's the only option I have been able to find (google 3.3 mm crow's foot, or open ended wrench: nothing).
So much for tooling.... That's gonna be taken care of. How do you guys measure tie-rod length? From inside chamfer of the ball end? Center to Center from the ball joint? /RANT/ Why aren't the ball end connectors made of Ti or Al and just the ball insert made of nylon? I used to have something like this in my RC10s from the 80's /RANT/
My manual does not specify tie-rod lengths, or if it does, it doesn't specify where to measure (I'm assuming you're using a digital caliper for this?!)
And even after measuring tie-rod turnbuckle length... how do you measure degrees of toe-in? In the field? At home in a jig?
I am clueless. Please advise.
-- c
Camber guage [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEV13&P=ML]here[/link].
When you build your turnbuckles and camber links, lube the threads with chapstick before threading into the ball cup.
You can use the stock nylon tools for adjustments when you lube the threads during assembly.
I use Lunsford stuff on my trucks, so I have their turnbuckle wrench. It is kind of loose fitting on the AE stuff, but it works.
Scott
12-22-2007, 12:29 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
Gonna have to change my setup.
Albion is a tight track with lots of traction.
I got the right tires, pink losi taper pins, and the stock front B44 tires.
Gulp....IFMAR qualifying tommorow...
Was but never happened due to being closed...[]
Albion is a tight track with lots of traction.
I got the right tires, pink losi taper pins, and the stock front B44 tires.
Gulp....IFMAR qualifying tommorow...
Was but never happened due to being closed...[
]
12-23-2007, 12:54 AM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
cool. intesesting diagnostic/measuring tools.
hopefully i'll be in the ballpark with my calipers (which, incidentally suck, because of the load balance of of the car through right and left hand turns, compacting shocks in the woop - dee - doos, etc.
The bigger question is how to I make it easy to adjust at the track. Thanks for your post
--- c
hopefully i'll be in the ballpark with my calipers (which, incidentally suck, because of the load balance of of the car through right and left hand turns, compacting shocks in the woop - dee - doos, etc.
The bigger question is how to I make it easy to adjust at the track. Thanks for your post
--- c
12-23-2007, 11:44 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
FYI
I just learned thru trial and error and dumb luck that the Ti turnbuckles are EXACTLY the same size as a 15g spoke wrench (14, 15, 16g being the very most popular spokes for MTB 26" wheels).
I had one of those old "Alien" multi-tool bike tools that I retired after I got my freaking nice Crank Bros. portable tool. So I quickly disassembled that Alien and scavenged the one nice part on her: a stainless steel 15g spoke wrench in the shape of a hand wrench! (I always use Park or Pedros bike tools, and thus, NO regrets about tearing down that multi tool. (Can you imagine building wheels with a spoke "wrench" instead of a spoke "key"? I can't...))
Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.
Cheers,
-- C
I just learned thru trial and error and dumb luck that the Ti turnbuckles are EXACTLY the same size as a 15g spoke wrench (14, 15, 16g being the very most popular spokes for MTB 26" wheels).
I had one of those old "Alien" multi-tool bike tools that I retired after I got my freaking nice Crank Bros. portable tool. So I quickly disassembled that Alien and scavenged the one nice part on her: a stainless steel 15g spoke wrench in the shape of a hand wrench! (I always use Park or Pedros bike tools, and thus, NO regrets about tearing down that multi tool. (Can you imagine building wheels with a spoke "wrench" instead of a spoke "key"? I can't...))
Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.
Cheers,
-- C
12-23-2007, 11:51 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
see my post about the stainless steel 15g spoke wrench being the perfect tool to replace that AE nylon wrench. The 15g wrench works even better that the 15g key you'd normally use on your mountain bike wheel spokes b/c the key wouldn't give you much tolerances between the wheel and the body innards.
15g spoke (turnbuckle part) == AE B44 blue Ti turnbuckle == 3.30mm on my calipers
-- c
15g spoke (turnbuckle part) == AE B44 blue Ti turnbuckle == 3.30mm on my calipers
-- c
12-25-2007, 09:36 PM
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RE: B44 Toe-in and Toe-out
ORIGINAL: Access
Straight in front. Slight toe-in at the rear. This is the standard setup and IMO just leave it alone. Don't adjust toe to change cornering properties, it is better to properly set the anti-squat. With each toe setting comes a drawback, in addition to the drag, you have to choose between making it easier to enter the corners (FTO) or easier to pull out of them (FTI, RTI). But you can't have it both ways. And FTO can behave a bit wonky on a 4WD setup. Properly set anti-squat, matched to your acceleration and the most difficult turns on the track, can give you both these things -- the ability to enter and leave corners easily, without any tradeoff. If you are between spacers on the desired anti-squat setting, sand or file down some spacers and use those.
Straight in front. Slight toe-in at the rear. This is the standard setup and IMO just leave it alone. Don't adjust toe to change cornering properties, it is better to properly set the anti-squat. With each toe setting comes a drawback, in addition to the drag, you have to choose between making it easier to enter the corners (FTO) or easier to pull out of them (FTI, RTI). But you can't have it both ways. And FTO can behave a bit wonky on a 4WD setup. Properly set anti-squat, matched to your acceleration and the most difficult turns on the track, can give you both these things -- the ability to enter and leave corners easily, without any tradeoff. If you are between spacers on the desired anti-squat setting, sand or file down some spacers and use those.
I get idea for setting camber and toe in and was wondering if anyone has set up a diy camber and toe in gauge. I'm getting back into RC for a hobby and am wanting to make the most of it.
