monsterbombs

first off no one cares about maxamps.
second off i didnt say they were zippy's
and how would you know they dont give the
performance like other brands if you dont even
know what ones im using. i think you also might
be surprised that some of the "brand" batterys are
coming from the same place.

you even said it. your paying for customer service,
a " US brand" and there sponsers. no wonder the batterys
are through the roof. i know there are quality batterys
like thunderpower and my kong power is up there but
how many of the "us brands" are actually manufacturing there own
cells in house. not many i wouldnt think.

Access

Actually I think it is none, it is basically between factories in Korea or China. No local factories at all, to my knowledge. Production has been shifting out of Japan and into China.

You might have some cases where the cells are built overseas and then assembled on-demand here in the US, but that is pretty much it. When you hear of GM or LG or someone like that building a new plant in the US, that is actually just an assembly plant. They are taking cells built in China and putting them into a "value-add" assembly locally.

http://www.atp.nist.gov/eao/wp05-01/contents.htm

This report was written in 2005. Then Kokam (Korean) was one of the major manufacturers for Lithium-Ion-Polymer and now they are not so much of a factor as they once were. There are some attempts to build large-scale factories here in the US, for instance:

http://www.boston-power.com/boston-p...anufactur.html

but even those acknowledge:
"Currently, nearly all lithium-ion batteries in the world are manufactured in Asia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...sphate_battery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Company
etc.

cumquat

as of now i only have nitro so i wont vote but if i get an electric for racing it will be undoubtedly hard case. even if you only run in marshlands you can still puncture a soft pack. the only time i would recamend a soft pack is if that person was racing and needed to shave every ounce they could.

FoamyVictim

WRONG. The C rating on my Zippy packs is spot on. In fact, my 20C 4S 4900 Zippy performs almost exactly the same as my 25C 4S 5000 Losi pack. In fact, I've used them about the same amount of times(was using both in my 8ight E) Guess what? The Losi pack puffed two cells, the Zippy is still going.

My point is that a name brand doesn't mean Horse Squeeze. They all buy the cells from just a few manufactures, so you are likely paying 4 TIMES what we are, for exactly the same thing. But if that makes you "Feel" better, then by all means, go for it.

Use velcro straps and high density foam to pad them. As long as you don't launch the car 50Ft in the air, you just be just fine.

The correct answer is.... NONE. They are ALL resellers. They buy the product, bless it, and throw their label on it.

Puncture with what?.... are there natives throwing spears at your car? Look, I've said it before, and I'll repeat myself. A decent battery tray provides more than enough protection. These aren't balloons or panty hose, they aren't nearly as fragile as you guys think they are. I've seen soft packs hit the ground at warp 9 in a small foam ducted fan jet. The plane was a total loss, all servos destroyed. All that survived, was the lipo and the receiver.

Access

Losi batteries are bad... Losi has never really been known for their batteries... you are comparing one of the best cheap brands to a poor expensive brand. It would be no different than if I compared Zippys to Venoms or Maxamps.

If you take something like the Thunderpower 40C packs, or some of the newer Orions, there are no real equivelents when it comes to the cheaper cells. But, you're still paying more than twice the price for a teeny bit of extra performance.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but people have a tendency to get pigeonholed into a simple this/that type argument when in reality things are a bit more complex. There's a lot of expensive brands doing the OEM/re-label/re-sell thing but there's also a few that really do deliver something more for the cost... whether you need that extra little bit of performance (and maybe reliability, but that's debatable) is up to you to decide. Racers typically want every last little bit of performance they can get, and cost is often beside the point.

FoamyVictim

My point is that even if a "Big Brand Name" is on the label, it doesn't mean you're getting a good product. I generally take what I read online with a grain of salt, and use mine and my local racer's personal experience to make the final call.

monsterbombs

good points.
i will tell you right now my kong power lipo is made in taiwan
if there is any "us brand" that even comes close to it i would like to know.
that will decimate nearly any other lipo out there. truthfully.
it did cost a bit more though but yeh.

cumquat

shock shafts, jagged broken shock towers, screws, body pins, plastics etc, etc. get going fast enough any thing can go through anything.

Dialed_In

Thanks for everyone's input and opinions. There is a good bit of information for me and hopefully others to make a decision on which type of Lipo to use.

I didn't mean for the topic to get heated or for it to sound like a topic that a troll would start. My original intention was to gather as much info as possible so I and others could make a safe and informed decision. I hope there are no hard feelings.

You have even got me thinking about using a soft lipo and making some kind of tray to fit over the Slash's battery tray to protect the lipo. I could possibly use some sort of U channel cut to fit precisely over the battery tray and held in place by the body clip. I'm even contemplating finding a better system than using the included body clip although it would have to be easy to remove in the event of fire. All this is not necessary but it's a couple ideas running around my head thanks to the responses in this thread.

Regards

FoamyVictim

I've been using soft case lipos for a Long Time(airplanes, cars, etc). Never had a puncture. I'm sure it "can" happen, but you "could" have the batteries in your transmitter explode and blow your hands off. How many people used armored battery trays in their transmitters?...

I hope this debate not only informed people, but let the domestic retailers know why we're bailing on them. They just can't compete with what they are charging for their lipos right now. Sure, there will be hard headed or finicky people that will only order from the States, but that won't last forever. People in this hobby need to think in terms of longevity, IF they want the hobby to last. You can't last if you can't compete, and few people are gonna spend money when they don't have to.

overrev

My opinion is use what you want there is no right or wrong. But the poll does show more people use hard case in cars.

FoamyVictim

I can show you a poll of people that believe Earth is Flat, and that this whole "Globe Theory" is a Conspiracy!

Chris_RC

FoamyVictim, you will convice me that soft case Zippy lipos are the way to go if you answer a few questions.

Take Kokam cells for example. Orion sells a 3800 30C for $80. Do the chinese places sell Kokam cells with around those specs for $30? Same with SMC, I dont know what cells they have but you can get a 6000 2S with Deans for $80. Can you get those for $50? What I am trying to ask is give me an example of where an expensive racing company and a cheap chinese company gets the same cells.

But, saying they are the same cells from the cheaper to the more expensive batteries is an unproved statement.

FoamyVictim

I can't prove where the cells come from because I didn't buy, assemble and then sell them at highly inflated prices. I can, however, post a link to the place I get mine from. Will they satisfy you?... you be the judge:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_index.asp#

As was stated before. The difference between the cheap packs and identically rated expensive packs is virtually undetectable. I've had both(although somebody said the Losi packs are junk anyway) and the difference was so marginal, it couldn't POSSIBLY account for the 300-400% price difference.

As I said before. If you want to blow your money, then By All Means, support the domestic lipo market. I want to race, and often. If I can do it for 20% of the cost...well, Logic steps in and says... YUP! [8D]

TCA999

My Feedback: (32)

Ijust bougt two 5000mah's 20C Tenergy LIPO (soft packs) and a universal smart charger all for $117 shipped. The lipos were on sale for $40 each. I've never had problems with Tenergy as I've used them for my NIMH batteries as well.

In addition, Ibuy all my batteries and chargers from All-Battery.com.

Awesome place.

FieroMan121

My Feedback: (2)

i use both, for some of my projects a hard case is better for safety and durability resons but for my srt and eagle (both racers) i run soft cases mostly for weight and like others say to keep an eye on um, my track does not have a batt rule just a cell count limit, 2s or 6c [respectively] for 1/10th classes and 4s for 1/8th.

Eman77

I use hard case LiPos, but primarily because they used to be strapped to the side of a custom E-Savage chassis - literally. Not battery tray there. So I thought it would be prudent to go hard case, since I flipped that truck so many times in some rough (but fun!) terrain.

I'd buy a soft case one though, if I was putting it in a battery tray (like most vehicles have).

Couple questions though, since I don't have a soft lipo:

1) If you are a clutz and drop the thing to the ground, or, say, just to your work bench, will it dent?

2) Folks keep saying that with a soft lipo, you're safer since you can see when it's puffing. So what - you guys look under the hood every 2 minutes during a race or bash session to look for puffing? I get the idea (i.e., hard case hides cell puffing) - but realistically, who's checking that soft case during a run, and how often?

FieroMan121

My Feedback: (2)

i check mine after a race or long bash since im putting the most strain on them then

as far as impact resistance, they can take some abuse its not like if you look at them wrong they dent or anything, ive tossed a pack onto my workbench once, didnt do anything, then again, i ran a soft case on my hpi rs4 mt a few weeks back and after a real nasty tumble i noticed that i bent the pack slightly but after a few race days it straitened up because of the way they are mounted in my srt