ParticleMan

My Feedback: (24)

You want to keep at least 10' away from anything that has "intel Extreme" written on it. Newer games it will NOT work. Battlefield 1942 requires at least a Geforce 2 or better. It came out months ago and it is a good rule of thumb to just stay away from that chip. Oh yeah, as far as I know, the Intel Extreme is an integrated Chip, not a video card. It uses shared memory, which say your system has 512mb of memory, the intel chip will "use" 64mb of it. Therefore, you actually have 448mb of system memory to use. Not to mention system memory is alot slower than on board graphics card memory.

If the ATI is really what you want, get it instead of the integrated deal. At least it has a better shot of playing the newest games. The best thing you can do is combine a Geforce 2 Ultra or better with 512mb of DDR memory. 256mb ---> 512mb WILL make a difference in games, specifically load times and in game experience. I recommend the 64mb Geforce 4 Ti4200 this card is the best bang for your buck. Pick any brand you want, they all are similar, some have TV out and other bells and whistles. Honestly I heard to much problems with ATIs drivers. The Catalyst series drivers have improved them, but I still have run into trouble with them. Nvida's however are rock solid and they support anything you will run the card on. In your original post you mentioned the Geforce 2 Ultra. I built my system 2 summers ago.

1.4 ghz AMD Athlon
Epox 8k7a mb
512mb crucial DDR memory
eVGA Geforce 2 Ultra
100 gig WD Special edition drive
40 gig IBM system drive
Sound blaster live
Dual Ethernet (load balanced)
21" Trinitron display

That system ran me about $1000 and I'm still using it today. I can play all the newest games at a very reasonable resolution. Unreal Tournement 2003, which just came out it will play 1280X1024 32bit color and get about 30fps. So even with a Geforce 2 Ultra I can play the newest games. Granted I have to turn down the resolution a little, but it still is smooth.

As far as the P4, The bus makes a difference. The Intels Northwood P4's have a 533mhz bus and contain some significant speed improvements, they started making northwoods @ 2ghz, it would also be worth your money to purchase a Northwood P4 with a 533mhz bus. I believe you can also get a Northwood marked 1.6 "A".

As far as Combat Flight Sim 3, It might not even run at all with a Intel Extreme. With the Radeon 7000 it's going to be extremely slow, you'll have to turn the resolution to 800X600 with not special effects and 16bit color. Overall making it not very appealing. A Geforce 4 Ti4200 can be had for $117 from newegg.com. You will have a pleasant gaming experience with that card with both realflight and CFS3

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...roperty&DEPA=1

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Sounds like it is a done deal already? Hope it works out.

bmxbully

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=D70027-054

Click on the link above for your game machine, add the GeForce4 Ti4200 video card below and your sim will work great. You're out $668.99 plus some shipping for both.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?sku=P450-7248

Enjoy.

Culverson

My Feedback: (14)

I can send you links-I prefer via Email on sending you links not online..
I would not get a video card with onboard shared memory...I tried one of the mobos with it and sound & on-board Lan it was a bit slow to me..

I run RealFlight on this lil rig now:Staying on subject I use it with Realflight If you need advice-PM or Email ...I do not want to get to off topic..in forum..
P4 3Ghz+Non Overclocked-Water Cooled Video-HD-CPU w/radiator RealFlight Rig

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks so much for the replies im going to pick it up tommorow actually (long story) but thanks for stopping me from getting the intel card. First thing is the ATI Radeon 9000 APG 64 mb a good card?
And ive been hearing alot of G force 2 ultra my first question is is this a good card to use for CFS3 ive heard that Gforce3 is not that good is the GF2 ultra better and will it run games better? My second question is can i get this at wal mart and for how much? If this is a cheap card is it better then the radeon 9000?
And my last question is how difficult is it to switch a video card i dont want to buy a computer and then find out i broke it because i put the new video card in wrong will i need someone to come in and installl it for me?
What Gforce card is the best for the cheapest i need mininum of 64mb right? Which module numebr is the best?

Thanks again for the replies,

Papa

SimJen

Radeon 9000 is an okay card. I personally would go with a GF4 Ti4200 for similar money. I have no brand preference, I always go with the biggest bang for my buck.
GF3's are fine cards, but a GF4 is better.

SimJen

Culverson

My Feedback: (14)

I would not really go to extreme on a card because some of the latest offerings have a programmable chip which as of now could be considered a overkill because how many software developers have took advantage of this..Not many and future devlopment will take a long time Unreal II took years to finish..by then when games or Sims are updated to make use of this technologies I see no need now. Plus software developers look at the compatibility of the masses and not the few..look at the system requirements of RF..

A good CPU like the Athlon XP is beter than a Duron due to the L2 cache-like a P4 is somewhat better than a Celeron..
But in all honesty a good 1Ghz computer with a good card and memory would very do..I only built the 3 Ghz system because I knew it would last a long time (years) before needing to upgrade and it was really sorta just more of a novelty to build it..I did it myself reasonably..the GeForce GPU is more complex than some of today's CPU's

SimJen

Its true a lot video cards features aren't utilised, especially in RC Flight sims, but look at the latest games and they are becoming more commonplace.
I use Antialiasing to clean up jaggies in all 3d software I use (including 3d studio max) and it is a worthwhile investment to have a card that can handle it.
You could probably play most RC Sims with an old TNT2, but if you want your new PC to last, get something that will still be capable of running software in a year or two.

SimJen

SimJen

In order of speed/performance approx? i think i may have left something out.

CPU

Athlon/P4
P3
Duron
Celeron

Video Cards

Ati Radeon 9700
Ati Radeon 9500/GF4 Ti4600
GF4 Ti4400
GF4 Ti4200
Ati Radeon 9000/8500
GF3 Ti500
GF4 MX

Culverson

My Feedback: (14)

"In order of speed/performance approx? i think i may have left something out.

CPU

Athlon/P4 -Athlon Xp seems to run coooler better L2 Cache
P3 -Good processor
Duron Reasoably priced CPU solution-Less L2 cache
Celeron " same as above "

Video Cards

Ati Radeon 9700 64 mb-128mb I believe is available
Ati Radeon 9500/GF4 Ti4600
GF4 Ti4400
GF4 Ti4200
Ati Radeon 9000/8500
GF3 Ti500
GF4 MX

Memory you have ****M-DDR-memory slot-some mobos have both DDR-****M slots-DDR is a bit faster
128-256 memory is nice, at least 128 would be good..

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Better check with the people you are buying the main system from on a few things. You said it was a compaq at one time. I find that compaq will not accept a lot of card changes easily if you do not know how to program to make it work and understand exactly what you are doing. What I mean is things are not easily plug and play on them. I get this from a couple different friends that are in the computer business. I haven't tried myself so ask the seller about it. These guys that told me this are among the best in the industry and neither will touch compaq personal systems so I give them credibility. All the systems I have used are pretty easy to change cards on. I use the GF-4 card and it is great. Try for that one if you can.

SimJen

CPU

Athlon/P4 -Athlon Xp seems to run coooler better L2 Cache

Athlon XP runs cooler than standard Athlon, P4 runs cooler still. "

Video Cards

Ati Radeon 9700 64 mb-128mb I believe is available

stick with 128mb for future proofing

Memory you have ****M-DDR-memory slot-some mobos have both DDR-****M slots-DDR is a bit faster
128-256 memory is nice, at least 128 would be good..

if using Windows XP then get at least 256mb, but don't bother getting more than 512mb unless doing intensive work

Compaq/HP/Dell type sysytems are okay, but the only thing really going for them is "Support". If you don't need the support then a homebuilt type machine is usually better, in terms of upgradeability and parts quality.
I've seen parts from low end manufacturers, relabelled by Compaq and sold in new machines (such as GF4's etc that come with slower ram than an off the shelf retail unit from Asus/Gainward etc) just to shave a few dollars off the price tag.

ParticleMan

My Feedback: (24)

PaPa-NeGeorgeo, simply put the Geforce 4 Ti4200 is going to be the best bang for you buck.

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

O boy now im confused what i was going to do was get the computer above and switch the video card with a GF2 but now i dont even see it on your lists?
Are compaq's good or bad computers? And is the radeon 9000 64 mb a good card?The GF4 is just too expensive but i might be able to get that card but with only 256 mb of ddr ram? Its the gatway i listed that $1599?
Whats wrong with the GF2? (I probably wont be able to get it anyways as i cant put it in the compaq)

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

Hows this:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...d=&newdeptid=1

And this i can probably find one thats english:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...d=&newdeptid=1

Im not familiar with Cicero at all but it looks like theres some good stuff in there? And it comes with a free inkjet printer (All futureshop pcs do)and a 17" monitor? Will the card in there run CFS3?

Or this one:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...d=&newdeptid=1

Weak ram but great video card

SimJen

The ATI 9000 is an okay card and will run your sims no problem.
The 2.53 P4 machine looks good.
I would cut back the ram to 256mb and maybe even the Hard drive to 80gb or less, if it has a CD writer then why have all that space? Also a 7200rpm drive would be a lot better as they are faster.
Then the money saved may allow you to upgrade to a ATI 9500 or GF4 Ti4200. Then you should be able to play all the current games and sims.
Did you realise none of those machines come with monitors?

SimJen

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

Yes all dont exept the in store special is that with a purchase of a Cicero desktop theres a free 17" monitor. The only problem is is that video card th GF4 MX a good one and is it better than the ATI 9000?
ARe u also saying that 256mb will do almost the same job that 512mb will do if so i could get the gateway?

Right now the best computers that are in my price range are the last 3 that i put in:
The gateway - with 256mb ram, 128 mb GF4 mx
The compaq - A little more expensive, 512mb ram, ati 64mb 9000
The cicero - A little cheaper, 512 mb, 64 mb GF4 mx

Whats your chose? (Do you think any of these can run CFS3?)

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

I think im going to go with the Cicero above if i can find it in an English version is there anything wrong with this computer as i have no idea about anything about Cicero? Also i think this comuputer will be able to run CFS3 is this a good buy with this computer or will it just be a waste of money?

Thanks again for all the replies, (ill probably be going in an hour so unless someone stops me, please do if there is a problem with this computer, im going to buy the computer and CFS3).

Papa

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry for rushing you but im buying in less than an hour and i need to get a good deal and something that will last. Which one of the above is the best for the price?

SimJen

sorry been away for a while.
Either should be able to run your software fine, I have seen some graphical problems when running ATI cards as the NVidia GF4 etc are more popular and software developers always optimise the software to suit the most popular video cards.

good luck

Simon J

SimJen

256mb of ram is fine for just about everybody. I run 256 with my P4 2.5Gig and can run any game currently out, I also do a fair bit of photoshop and Cad work and never have a problem.
It can reap benefits having 512mb when you use really large graphics files, but in most cases it makes no difference.

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

Alright thanks alot to everyone for all your great replies my parents decided at the last second that they would downsize the computer so instead of getting the great computer they were going to get they got a HP Celeron 2.0, 256 ram, 64 mb intel extreme graphics, 40gb harddrive. Im a little disappointed but ive decided im going to get another one (thats not junk) in about a 2-3 months you think anything will change by then? Could i just insert more memory into the slots and that would plus it? Example if i had 256 and a free ram slot could i just put in another 256 and it would became 512?
Thanks again for all the replies ive learned alot more than i knew about computers in about 2 days,

Papa

SimJen

you could just spend a bit of money on a new graphics card and drop it in. Should be good enough then.
Don't even bother with ram, you get no noticeable speed increase, but yes if it has an extra ram slot then you can fill it.
Not much on the horizon PC wise, the Geforce FX is due out as well as a faster P4, but effectively it will remain pretty much the same.

Elwood

My Feedback: (2)

How does RF work on the new system? How many FPS? You may not need a newer PC at all.

PaPa-NeGeorgeo

My Feedback: (3)

I dont know if im going to get RF because im not sure if it will run that well on a celeron with a crappy video card.