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How does my ability on sim affect real world

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How does my ability on sim affect real world

Old 08-05-2008, 07:57 AM
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The Flying Brick
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Default How does my ability on sim affect real world

Hey folks,

After a long break from the hobby I am thinking about getting back into it but this time with a low wing. The only thing I have flown is my high wing 40 trainer. I am building a Top Flite P-51 and would like to be able to confidently fly it.

So my question is this, If I have MASTERED flight of this plane on G3 under all conditions wind etc... do you think that is reason to believe that I could fly the real thing? How realistic are factors such as stall rates and landing speeds on the G3?

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
John
Old 08-05-2008, 09:06 AM
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flyX
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

You can fly it, that's not going to be a problem and the g4 dose pretty good.

It's the landing approch for any sims, not so much the ground handling.
None. Not for landings. It dosn't tip stall and just do a gentle nose dive.
You can hold insane AOA at low speed and it'll still land like a kitten
Your real mustang is not going to be perfeclty tune/built or tune like in the sim or G4.
Your not going to have air speed readings or auto zoom, so you might as will trun all those features off.

You might want to ease your way in with other low wing models, such as a clipped wing 4*.
It's gental enough to allow you many, many practice touch and go in real life . And also get you more
familar with your real flying site. You still need landmarks to help guide you. This is where the G4 comes
in handy. You can build a 3D field simular to your real flying site. You be able to have more stick time
doing straight fly by over the runway or practice doing a victory roll.

Then many move the CG back after you get comfortable with the 4*. Maybe even add weight to make it a brick so you'll learn to
come in hotter on landing approch.

Or just get an arf with tappered wing. Plenty of .40 size mustange arf on the market.

Your mustang model will also nose over more on rough fields.
Old 08-05-2008, 09:22 AM
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Zeeb
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

FlyX has some good points for you, but missed one important one.

With the sim, if it crashes all you have to do is hit the red button....

The sim will help you build reflexes and correct control operation, but it's quite different with the actual model in the air and as he pointed out, landing will be the most challenging difference.

I would not suggest you try it on your own with your current experience level and only the sim experience. If you're dead set on a Mustang, I'd suggest you get yourself a Hangar 9 Mustang PTS before you try flying the Top Flite.

It comes as either RTF:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2825

Or as an ARF:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2845
Old 08-05-2008, 10:36 AM
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johndou
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

RealFlight does not model P-factor or engine torque in their sim. They do not model rough surfaces, or grass, or slopes , divits, etc. Take-offs are easy and straight forward in RealFlight. They're not in real life - especially with something like that Top Flite P-51. RealFlight does not model stalls correctly and stall recoveries are quite easy in their sim ... they're not in Real Life. Landings are easy and straight forward in the sim, they're not in real life.

Sims are great for training your thumbs, for keeping up on your skills during the off season. But, they are not capable of telling you how a particular airplane will fly under certain conditions.

Keep in mind that RealFlight is a sim that contains the planes sold by Hobbico - RealFlight is part of GreatPlanes and GreatPlanes (Top Flite, Goldberg, etc) are part of Hobbico. All of the planes in RealFlight are much easier to fly in the sim then in real life. KnifeEdge Software does not model the physics of the planes in the sim to match the real planes ... a look at any of the planes physics will show a vast difference in weight, power settings, control surfaces, etc. for any of the planes that are in RealFlight - especially their trainers. The planes are specifically modeled to make them fly easy. If you can fly the plane in the sim then you can fly the plane in real life ... or at least that's the goal of RealFlight. That way GreatPlanes/Hobbico will sell more planes.
Old 08-07-2008, 04:33 PM
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Bugzilla
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

All the stock craft of Real Flight are made that way, but most of the good downloads from the knifeedge site are modeled to be physically accurate. It may not be 100% accurate, in that the takeoffs and landings are still going to be smoother and easier than in real life, but once the plane is in the air, it behaves very much like the real thing. For example, the Typhoon 2 3d is said to be very realistic in flight by people who own both the actual plane and the RF sim. If you go to the knife edge site, you can read very good tutorials on how to adjust the sim plane to fly more like the real thing so that the learning curve is reduced even further, i.e. move the COG, set the throw on the control surfaces, change the prop, engine torque, and the like. Every plane in the sim can be tweaked and adjusted to give the most realistic flight possible from an artificial source.
Old 08-08-2008, 12:13 PM
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johndou
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

In most cases a flight sim is your first or second investment into the R/C hobby world. Some people will buy a "parkflyer" have a bad experience and then get a sim to help them out. Others will go straight to the sim. G3 was my first flight sim and it modelled P-factor and engine torque quite well, if you gave a model full power and little to no correction it would veer off the runway. That no longer happens in G3.5 or G4. The P51 in G3 had a pronounced tip stall, that no longer exists in G3.5 or G4.

The "aircraft editor" is a great tool and you can "fix" most of the bad features that the stock models no longer dispay - except P-factor and engine torques. But, you have to know how that planes flies in real life to be able to do that. Beginners don't have that knowledge. And unfortunately, too many of the model creators that contribute those great models on the KE Swap pages don't have that knowledge either.

Getting a model to fly correctly doesn't seem to be a difficult issue for most sim producers. But getting that same model to handle correctly on the ground seems to be rather difficult. Yet, it wasn't so difficult just a few years ago when G3 was introduced to the market place. What changed? Or better question, who was influenced to change and why?

It's my belief that KnifeEdge was asked to change and GreatPlanes - they're customer - asked for the change in an effort to make RealFlight more of a sales tool for their airplanes.
Old 08-08-2008, 02:34 PM
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flyX
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

Well, I know I can easily hover instead of torque rolling on 99 % of the models.
I invented the knifedge loop in sims..but I don't think that's going happen that easily in real life or even posible.
I can do a horizontal figure 8 in sims too.
Of course I'll make mustange hover without adjusting the perimeters too.
None of the models tip stall.

I like the way the wheels simulate rolling and landing gear flex though.

A newbie dosn't know how models will handle in real life. They don't have a baseline to compair their sim to.
And a certain percentage will what to bypass an instructor or join a club after flying in a sim.
And they don't get it why their model drops out of the sky in real life.
Old 08-26-2008, 01:17 PM
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Default RE: How does my ability on sim affect real world

After all these years and upgrades the lack of P factor on take off is a major drawback especially on tail draggers. I started with the Aerochopper sim and in terms of flight dynamics I find very little improvement after all these years. A couple of the planes I have don't fly the way the plane does in the sim. When you chop power on my Big Stick it loses airspeed pretty rapidly. The G4 version is almost retaining speed like a Quickie. Some other planes seem to have way more horsepower than my planes.

G4 looks great and offering the addons is a nice gesture. I wasn't too happy when I was told my old addons wouldn't work. Now I will get some of my favorite planes back. I'm also waiting eagerly for the viper.

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