I was curious about th edifferent sims that are out there. I was thinking about getting one but I would like some opinions on the physics. I am not as conecerned about the graphics. Between Realflight, aerofly pro and FMS which do you think has the best physics engine. Trying to decide if it is worth spending the cash for Aerofly and realflight if their engine is the same as FMS which I can spend 50 USD on a cable for my existing controller. Thanks

There are particular reason for paying money for a Reflex, a G2 or AFP and not paying anything for the FMS. One of the reason is that a lot of people really went very deep into a complicated matter. Displaying an aircraft is one thing, calulating a behaviour is something completely different. In case of the Reflex, it is an ongoing development for more than 10 years now whith people making there living on a good product. We believe - and our customers usually testify that statement - that the flight equations and the ground handling (how the aircraft reacts to different surfaces and obstacles) of our simulated aircrafts are VERY close to the real thing. The FMS is interesting because it is free and plenty of free aircrafts are available. Sometimes, I have the feeling the the FMS is more towards a collectors item. FMS is definately NOT a professional simulation so you can't expect a lot. Please watch earlier threads about the quality of the sims and you will already get an idea about other users opinion.

Cheers - wsn

Reflex Professional Products

I must say I agree on FMS, it's fun, and occasionally a plane will fly sort of "right" but usually it's pretty off. It's great for getting the mental feel for controlling the plane as it's coming towards you etc, but it's not something that you can use to practice maneuvers.

Sure if you can afford it go for one of the expensive sims. The flight model in FMS is currently being updated but it's likely to take a while and there's no knowing how good it will end up.

For serious training I still use CSM V10. The sound and graphics are horrible but the flight model is excellent, both for fixed wing and helis. And it's a lot less expensive than the newer sims. I also find it easier to set up my own models in it (though that may be because I know it).

Steve

Oh! The CSM story again. There wasn't any substantial work on that software since quite some years. It surely WAS good in 1996 but there have been some long cold winters since ... and other manufacturers did not use that time for a long sleep.

Again, the price difference reflects a good part of the usability difference. CSM is not playing major league at the moment and they surely have a stony way if they ever want to play that again.

Cheers - wolfgang

I just started flying a new SIM from IKARUS , Easyfly. The graphics are pretty good and the dynamics modeling is very realistic. Basic SIM with interface is about $75.

It was quite good in 1999 when the last major release came out too.

I realise you're just doing a sales job and justifying the price of your own product but I'd be interested to know what major changes you imagine there have been to Physics as it applies to flight since 1999. The flight model in CSM was right then and it's still right now.

I quite agree that you and the others have managed to catch up and all the modern sims are certainly a lot prettier than CSM (and need much more computing power). But I always get suspicious when I see people rubbishing the competition. It usually means their product can't stand up on its own. Several of the pretty new sims have much worse flight models than CSM. I don't know whether yours is one of them because I've never owned a copy nor have I ever met anyone who owned it.

All I said was that CSM is what I use. That's the truth. I've tried a number of the newer sims and I still keep going back to CSM because I like realistic flight more than I like pretty pictures. Feel free to send me a copy of your sim if you'd like me to recommend that (if it really is better) .

Steve

You are not getting the point. You are not going to your car dealer and compare the latest model with your 15 years old car, comming to a conclusion that nothing beats your 15 years old car. Well, you can do that but you wouldn't stand the comments. You want to see it yourselve? Go to my homepage and download a demo! I am so convinced that I really publish a demo and I am pretty lonely with that procedure.

Besides, don't forget the initial question. It doesn't "usually mean" that my products needs such a question to get pushed - I havn't even been very specific on the product question. Reading your basic comment, I could very well get the idea, that your post is a promotion for CSM.

The initial question was specifically about the realism of the physics in simulators. IMO CSM is still very good in this particular aspect. Many of the newer simulators have better graphics etc but worse dynamic flight models. FMS is an example as is the Ripmax Flight Sim and Easyfly (all IMO).

I personally would never buy a simulator that didn't allow me to set up my own models fairly easily. Several fail on this aspect including RF G2 which starts off expensive and then charges extra for every update.

From Fliptunes original list I'd probably go for Aerofly Pro but I've only played with it for a short time so I don't know how easy it is to break the flight model.

Steve

Steve, you took the words out of my mouth ! I sure am suspicious too when somebody releases info on dealership to the public before it's even confirmed...........I think the remarks made only goes to show the level of professionalism, which is a precursor of how good or bad the product really is

@Steve: That's getting better - thanks. If you now have a deep look into AFP, G2, CSM, TF ... and you find that you can merely start and land the aircraft at ANY place and if you consider that flying is fairly easy - getting it into the air and back onto the ground safely is the problem - than you are close to the real difference. We simulate the bumpiness and the resistance of the ground - whether it is high grass, low grass or concrete. That "simulates" the real problems a starter has getting a 2-wheel gear down safely or slipping with the heli over the ground or even breaking the tail rotor in high grass.

Please do me a favour - download the demo and just watch the demo flights.

We are now in a detailed discussion. Comming back to the original question we may conclude: Yes - there is a big difference in physics and one hint for that is the price. I agree with you that some prices are not justified or some prices may cover a good part of something that is not really needed or heading in the wrong way. Commercial products usually offer more value for money than FOC products.

@rajul: You are that guy with the profund knowledge of the US market and how it works so you are leaving no opportunity to teach other people?

Why can't you just wait and see before you are talking about things you obviously have NO knowledge about?

well you all have interesting points. I have learned in my years of buying software that the more expensive something is does not mean it is better. Since these are supposed to be simulators and not games it all comes down as to wait the software does and not how it looks. Thanks for all the info you guys have provided. I will continue to investigate before I spend an money. Of course ina perfect world we would need the sim we would just head to the field.

First off, FMS: You don't want to spend anything close to $50 on it. That would be a total waste of money. I got mine off of ebay for about $15 including a tx lead (JR to printer). I even consider that a waste now, I wouldn't advise getting it unless you've got an old PC that won't run a half decent sim.

Cockpit Master: Good if you can get it cheap. Then you've got to spend some $30 odd to get the lead. Cheapest is the 'proper' one on Hobby Lobby (I think).

Ripmax RC Simulator: Best of the bunch at this price range. For around $50 you get a half decent sim with a joystick interface. The interface comes with a windows driver so you can use your transmitter to control any joystick game. You can pay more for this just for the interface on its own, and you can also use it with Cockpit Master too.

Easyfly: Got mine on ebay for around $15 (must've been lucky). Good, but I wouldn't recommend paying more than around $25 for it. You just have the one island to fly around and the area around the main runway is very tight with no easy way to see where the runway actually is once you're up there... Good fun but no real good trainer aircraft and no upgrades to speak of.


G2: Finally splashed out the other day to find out what all the hype is about. It just that: hype. Don't get me wrong, it really is a good sim and maybe worth the $200 they want for it. But unless you've got the latest and greatest PC, the frame rates will get you and you'll be out hunting for a new graphics card (ask me how I know)....

Tigger as far as the system goes I have it covered. I am running a 2.4 with a gb of RAM. Also have a GF4 4600 so I don't have any problems with graphics. I wouldn't have aproblem buying th G2 if it is worth it as a trainer. That is my big thing is to buy the software to train me to fly. I haven't had a chance to get out to the field to train due to weather or an instructor not being available. If I want to just fly somthing on the comp I can whip out the combat flight sim 3 and mess around.

@Fliptunes: You should know that most simulators consider that the pilot behind the gimbals knows what he is doing. You should have a basic idea on what a gimbal does. So you should know what elevator, rudder, motor and aileron is and what it does to your flight path. My product offers a trainer function for helicopter and 3D aircraft torque BUT no trainer for fixed wing aircraft. The reason is quite simple: I believe that the functions of an aircraft are rather easy to understand, the rest is trial and error. With the helicopter it is different so we have that step-by-step trainer system.

As far as I know, the RealFlight G2 offers a trainer mode for aircraft, something that tells you what stick you should move next: The virtual flight instructor. If this is your primary problem, the G2 is your choice.

Cheers - wolfgang

Fliptunes,

You're system sounds good but I wouldn't make any rash assumptions regarding G2..... I've seen a P4 PC with an allergy to the fog function. Mine also reacted badly to the fog. My new gfx card is a GeForce2 (#$%^ e machines won't support Radeon 9000) and that handles the fog OK but frame rates are still a little slow. If yours is a GeForce 4 then you should be OK, but I bet you can't turn all the graphics functions up....

I think Realflight have been very conservative in their performance requirements for the sim (gets more people to buy it, then they have to upgrade their PC).

The virtual Flight Instructor is the best tool I've seen to actually tell you the inputs to make for a maneuver, but its darned near impossible to fly your plane in sync with the instructor

The Ripmax Sim has a set of exercises that have you following lines and flying through hoops, but this can get a bit repetitive and boring.

In order to finish the nasty rajul comments: Hobbico article no. HCAZ4000 - available ex stock. Maybe next time you are a little more carefully with your assumptions.

Cheers - wolfgang

Wolfgang,

You've lost me there, I don't see a Rajul here and that Hobbico number doesn't come up with anything on the TH site.....

Hi tiggerinva,

rajul made the 10th post in this thread, assuming that I tell anything before knowing it.

TH article listing is a bid slow as there is plenty of work with the MPX articles. I had various customers who just used the phone ordering system and they were getting it. The web listing may take another 5-10 days.

Cheers - wolfgang

well i got the G2. not bad. Either I am fairly good at flying or it is very easy on the physics. I do crash though when trying to land and do tricks close to the ground but it is helping me learn the thumb moves and such. i have to admit the airport editor is a nice function but the viewing system to place all the trees and thing is horribly. You have to keep resetting your view and f10 for mouse look to see where you are placing things. Not very friendly but i am still trying to set up the field that I fly at lol.

G2 rocks right now! I got it about 2 months ago and learned to fly helis using it. It's not perfect and could use a few features, but it really help teach the ropes to get started.

Good call Fliptunes.

--Hammer