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RE: planes in the works.
He had no evidence, he had a grudge against an individual person, and now thanks to him, we lose someone with what, 4 planes released already, and many more close to release?
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RE: planes in the works.
Rick has issues (sorry Rick but it seems you do) although I like his work. The "Other" guy really seems to have issues (more issues that the Readers Digest). On this debate I find myself on Ricks side but I think the whole thing got way out of hand because the "other" guy started a personal Vendetta. (Vendetta just needed to be capitolized)
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RE: planes in the works.
ORIGINAL: cwehner Just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the whole copyright issue, There is NONE! we at the W3 Group have recently put a copyright attorney on payrole because of some things we have coming down the road for Reflex. You can copy any plane you want, as long as you are building them from scratch. There is no copyright law keeping you from artistic cg rendering of another model. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, there is no way you are building it EXACTLY to the same deminsions as another model that it resembles. People are way to quick to yell copyright when they have no idea what they are talking about. The only problems you run into is using trademarked names , like Tensor, Eflite, Greatplanes, Katana mini....etc. But only if you are selling the end product, not if it is for free. There are no trademarks on paint scheems either...You could trademark one if you really wanted to go through the trouble, but no one in the sim world or RC world has. thats like saying no one can use the color blue with a red stripe down the side because I saw a plane like that before. Full scale planes like the red bull racing team and such do have trademarks on paint scheems but that is very rare. So build away.... And any time you can get permission to use a trademarked name, do it. It's just a nice thing to do. Or at least give credit to the design its based on. If your selling a model and can't get permission, leave the name off. The CG model is yours, even if it is based on another one. And "STL pilot" is not a trademarked name so stick it on the side of your model with a big thumbs down next to it. He can't do a thing about it. Chris W3 Group 50% |
RE: planes in the works.
Can we be civilized and maybe we can discuss it.
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RE: planes in the works.
[X(]I thought you'd never ask.
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RE: planes in the works.
1 Attachment(s)
i didn't use the color scheme even. i went with a carbon fiber desighn. it's a glossy carbon fiber so t's kinda shiny. anyways, before and after the paint. ryan
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RE: planes in the works.
i forgot to add that i jusmade a little park flyer that might 3d, i dunno yet. ryan:D
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RE: planes in the works.
Looks Great Ryan[sm=thumbup.gif]
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RE: planes in the works.
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forgot the before paint. lol
:D i also threw in a pic of the sky diver just for fun. ryan:D |
RE: planes in the works.
thanks 50. ryan (my name):D
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RE: planes in the works.
ORIGINAL: Ryan Archer thanks 50. ryan (my name):D |
RE: planes in the works.
OK great.
First off I have nothing against Rick Delten. Sometimes I think he's a little wishy washy, but hey it's who he is, so be it. I have no vendetta against anyone, nobody, life's too short. Rick and I have had discussions in the past about copyrights/skins etc. I posted threads before, no reason to go over it. I explain to him what he can and cannot do, very simple stuff. It was quite clear and he thanked me for the information. The conversations were good and case was closed. I thought that was the end of it. Now in regards to the models. You guys are right, the wireframes are very hard to replicate and copy. The word trademark does not come into play in this matter like cwherner said until you use trade names. But ... copyright does. It's grey and it can go either way. There are many factors, but if it's questionable when dealing with copyrights all you have to do is give courtesy and ask permission. If you read copyright laws you will see the word permission many times especially when matters are grey/loose. For instance: Right now American Aircraft, Republic and others are suing die cast companies/hobby companies for use of their shapes. This is a huge controversy because these planes were paid for for the taxpayers. It's a big mess. Yes, this is all for profit, so the rules are a little different. But for profit or free does not matter copyright violation is copyright violation, the only difference is the size of the award you get if you lose in court. Now in regards to the skins. The Giles, the Mower and the Shockflyer and perhaps more where 3 viewed from AFPD model editor. Rick knows it, IPACS knows it, I know it. This is a no no. 3W/Compostite ARF owns the copyright on whats on their plane. I already know that IPACS got permission from these companies to use the trims they use on the commercial sim as I was told from the top. IPACS now owns the copyright on the models for AFPD, no and's if's or but's. IPACS is not thrilled and they are not going to sue Rick, but they are trying to get in touch with him to let him know he cannot do that. In regards to the mower. I asked Rick very nicely to plug FTZ for use of the model which I knew he 3 viewed from AFPD from the get go. No problem Rick ... go for it, just plug us so the Chinese know where it came from. Rick did not like my request and wanted to do things his way. This is when I started looking into other matters and I will not in any circumstances let Rick do what Rick wants to do without permission or simple request. I know I'm not cybercop, but Rick did effect my livelihood personally. When you own your own company and work hard for you livelihood you want to protect it. If he wants to put the URL on the mower and get it out there ... then god bless him. Now, Rick is a grown man and so am I. Neither of us our kids. I do not want this drama, but I want Rick and everyone else aware that you can under NO CIRCUMSTANCES 3 view planes from AFPD. If you want to create your own skins take them form other sources, plain and simple. Now why Rick has stopped modeling is just the role he does. He will be back, he just making you guys all fall into his drama play and it's working well. Anyhow ... Rick get your butt back to modeling and that's that. Respectfully, DC |
RE: planes in the works.
OK great. First off I have nothing against Rick Delten. Sometimes I think he's a little wishy washy, but hey it's who he is, so be it. I have no vendetta against anyone, nobody, life's too short. Rick and I have had discussions in the past about copyrights/skins etc. I posted threads before, no reason to go over it. I explain to him what he can and cannot do, very simple stuff. It was quite clear and he thanked me for the information. The conversations were good and case was closed. I thought that was the end of it. Now in regards to the models. You guys are right, the wireframes are very hard to replicate and copy. The word trademark does not come into play in this matter like cwherner said until you use trade names. But ... copyright does. It's grey and it can go either way. There are many factors, but if it's questionable when dealing with copyrights all you have to do is give courtesy and ask permission. If you read copyright laws you will see the word permission many times especially when matters are grey/loose. For instance: Right now American Aircraft, Republic and others are suing die cast companies/hobby companies for use of their shapes. This is a huge controversy because these planes were paid for for the taxpayers. It's a big mess. Yes, this is all for profit, so the rules are a little different. But for profit or free does not matter copyright violation is copyright violation, the only difference is the size of the award you get if you lose in court. Now in regards to the skins. The Giles, the Mower and the Shockflyer and perhaps more where 3 viewed from AFPD model editor. Rick knows it, IPACS knows it, I know it. This is a no no. 3W/Compostite ARF owns the copyright on whats on their plane. I already know that IPACS got permission from these companies to use the trims they use on the commercial sim as I was told from the top. IPACS now owns the copyright on the models for AFPD, no and's if's or but's. IPACS is not thrilled and they are not going to sue Rick, but they are trying to get in touch with him to let him know he cannot do that. In regards to the mower. I asked Rick very nicely to plug FTZ for use of the model which I knew he 3 viewed from AFPD from the get go. No problem Rick ... go for it, just plug us so the Chinese know where it came from. Rick did not like my request and wanted to do things his way. This is when I started looking into other matters and I will not in any circumstances let Rick do what Rick wants to do without permission or simple request. If he wants to put the URL on the mower and get it out there ... then god bless him. Now, Rick is a grown man and so am I. Neither of us our kids. I do not want this drama, but I want Rick and everyone else aware that you can under NO CIRCUMSTANCES 3 view planes from AFPD. If you want to create your own skins take them form other sources, plain and simple. Now why Rick has stopped modeling is just the role he does. He will be back, he just making you guys all fall into his drama play and it's working well. Anyhow ... Rick get your butt back to modeling and that's that. Respectfully, DC 50% |
RE: planes in the works.
I do have one question regarding the IPacs eula, I've been told that this would also apply to screenshots and vids of AFPD. Also, I don't exactly recall the events as you listed them about the mower the way you stated them. BTW, the last pic of the mower that I saw was one that had the URL on it. I could be wrong and Rick would have to prove either way. |
RE: planes in the works.
OK.
I understand most of that, and if thats the stance that You and/or Ipacs take then so be it. Alot of my arguments are more on the morality of it all. Firstly, none of this is meant to be insulting or casting a negative image of you or the way you think about this problem, I sometimes re-read what I've said later and see that I came accross wrong, and since this is the internet, its easier to do than ever...just want you to know that this is posted without any anger at all towards you. Fair use is a big deal to me in copyright laws. Im a web-designer, many years solo and now working for a small company. When i was solo, I couldnt count the number of times I seen my photoshop work on someone else's sites...straight ripoffs. With the exception of one person, I never persued any of them to change/remove it (the one person I did ask to remove my stuff was making money on software piracy...suprisingly he obliged without fuss). To me, as long as you 1) Arent making money off of my work, 2) Making my work look bad, or 3) Costing me money by using my own stuff to compete against me; im ok with it. Im one of the few people who equaly love Windows and Linux. One of the strongest draws of linux to me is obviously the cost (other factors too..but hey, money is money). Everything except support is free as far as the OS goes. If your familiar with linux or open-source software in general, you know about the GPL. I think the GPL is a far better solution than the traditional copyright laws we have in this country. Take it, change it, redistribute it...a beautiful scenario that has played out millions of times, and the best part is that both sides still come out winners. That being said, I do think that Rick should have given credit where it was due. I think alot of it comes down to pride. I know what its like to spend 20+ hours on a project and then have to put someone elses name on it...it sucks. Its also a situation that needs to be dealt with discretly, because when you interject pride into any situation, it playing with fire. STL, i know that probably personally, your a good guy, I've given you alot of flak this last week, and im sure alot of it was not completely deserved...(I appologize, really...i tend to have a short temper sometimes...and once i get started I dont know when to stop). Saying that, some of what you have said and meant no harm with comes off kinda rough (hence, what i was talking about above with the internet). I obviously have not seen what you wrote Rick originally about the mower, but it obviously stirred him up a little. I wont take sides on that, but it does seem to be the root of this issue... Short of the virus (harmfull or not, that was a really bad move on your part), and even considering that, i dont think that anything anyone has said will be remembered 2 months from now, and i try to live by the rule that if its not going to bother me 2 months from now, i should just forget it. I think we all should. Put this mess behind us. To rick. I like you man, your feisty like me...and your a hell of a modeler. I also know for a fact that you're a hell of a painter. Take your models, and make some entirely new schemes. Ill help out if you want...modeling has been ticking me off lately...so i havent been doing much. Put the FTZ logo on the mower so you can release it. Your really punishing everyone else by not releasing it. And it really isnt too much to ask. I know that I will probably never make more than 2 or 3 planes for G3, if that. Of those, 1 might be good. You've already put out a handfull of GREAT planes. As for getting permission for things. Play along man, i dont like those rules, but in the end, those ARE the rules. Im sure getting permission and putting a txt file in the zip will make everyone happy. You didnt have a problem giving ryan credit for the physics testing, or giving nemo credit for the pilot...so it shouldnt be too big of a deal. I think we all just let this go to far, and now some damage has been done to both sides. So now what? Its easy, fix the problems, they really are minor, and go on. Once again, to everyone that has read though this argument (over the many threads its been in), to the mods, and Especially to STL, I appologize for acting like a child and continuing to fan the flames of a pointless war. Lets get over it and get back to flying...please? |
RE: planes in the works.
I think we can all agree on two statements here:
I appologize for acting like a child and continuing to fan the flames of a pointless war. Lets get over it and get back to flying...please? Anyhow ... Rick get your butt back to modeling and that's that. 50% |
RE: planes in the works.
I apoliogize to everyone as well. Let's just put it all behind us and continue to keep releasing all models for all sims. I too will help whenever it's needed. I've been in the software gig for quite some time now, well before AFPD. I wish I had time to model planes, but I would love to give assitance when needed in any form.
Also regarding the virus, it was stupid, however it was URL to a known "funny site" that's used a lot in the corporate world. I had no idea it contained a virus as it didn't show up on my end. By the way anyone is more then welcome to model any OMP plane or FTZ plane for G3. In fact I have the original CADS avaiable from the actual plans of the models if you want to use them as a reference. The OMP planes fly amazing on AFPD and are some of the top downloaded planes of all time. The only thing I ask is you plug OMP/FTZ somehow for use either on a readme or on the model itself. Anyway ... back to work. Have fun all! |
RE: planes in the works.
STL, would you be willing to share the plans for the flying doghouse?
Second to the mower, thats the one i would love to have in the sim! Plus would be an easy first model to get into the sim modeling with... |
RE: planes in the works.
ORIGINAL: STLPilot I apoliogize to everyone as well. Let's just put it all behind us and continue to keep releasing all models for all sims. I too will help whenever it's needed. I've been in the software gig for quite some time now, well before AFPD. I wish I had time to model planes, but I would love to give assitance when needed in any form. Also regarding the virus, it was stupid, however it was URL to a known "funny site" that's used a lot in the corporate world. I had no idea it contained a virus as it didn't show up on my end. By the way anyone is more then welcome to model any OMP plane or FTZ plane for G3. In fact I have the original CADS avaiable from the actual plans of the models if you want to use them as a reference. The OMP planes fly amazing on AFPD and are some of the top downloaded planes of all time. The only thing I ask is you plug OMP/FTZ somehow for use either on a readme or on the model itself. Anyway ... back to work. Have fun all! |
RE: planes in the works.
Good job guys! Lets hope Rick is willing to follow suit.
By the way anyone is more then welcome to model any OMP plane or FTZ plane for G3. In fact I have the original CADS avaiable from the actual plans of the models if you want to use them as a reference. The OMP planes fly amazing on AFPD and are some of the top downloaded planes of all time. The only thing I ask is you plug OMP/FTZ somehow for use either on a readme or on the model itself. |
RE: planes in the works.
Come on rick...you've been shown as reading this topic for a while now...so i know your checking it. Chime in...lets get back to having a good time...ALL OF US!
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RE: planes in the works.
That's terrific STL. Are there any planes that you would like to see in G3 first? 1. URL on plane (optional) 2. URL and/or company name in model description which appears on the model load page (mandatory) 3 viewing is very simple with AFPD. You just go into the model editor and create 3 views. Then wireframe around it and you already have the skins done too. The OMP 79" Yak is most popular. It's now included in the box with AFPD! But remember guys, if you do this for any other plane for AFPD, XTR or FMS, ask permission to the modeler or owner of the copyright. You've just witnessed 1 person who has given permission. Others will too. I know not all will ... I've been down that road. When you are talking about default models for commercial sims, these are the ones that need the most attention for permission and use. |
RE: planes in the works.
ORIGINAL: Prop Nut What is the W3 group, and why would you have had to put a copyright lawyer on retainer? No offence, its just that I have not hear of it. I think this thread has become very inspiring. Being in the bussiness I am, it is ashame to have your work ripped off with no credit. But when someone wants to use something I've done and get my permission and give me credit, It's actually flatering. We can't lose sight of that. People copy because they like what you've done. Permission can go along way. StLPilot, you have come along way in this thread and I applaud you. Chris W3 Group |
RE: planes in the works.
Ok, it looks like there is still some work to do. STL, why are you still bashing Rick on the IPACS forums? Also, Rick has been banned it looks like and he can't post anything to help this discussion. That leads me to the thought, Why isn't STL banned as they were both involved in this war, and I was in it also.(not saying I want to be banned)
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RE: planes in the works.
What IPACS forum?
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