planes in the works.
 

here are some of the planes in the works that i am doing at the moment. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

Post some pictures of the SE5!!! :D

RE: planes in the works.
 

Looks good bro, just make sure they dont resemble anything that might be in afpd or you will have STL down your throat for the rest of your life...

You have anyone with max to handle the import (assuming your doing these for g3)? I have it and would help out in that aspect if you need it, though im sure rick is there for you as well.

Keep it up man...not only nice looking models, clean meshes too...

RE: planes in the works.
 

Hey Ryan, how about an OMP edge!!!!:)

Where's the pics of the d-tv?

50%

RE: planes in the works.
 

still working on the dtv 50. the se5 is not fa enough to even know what it is. i think rick stopped making models and that because he doesn't want to get in trouble. thankyou for the offer, i just might have to take you up on that. right now i'm working on the dtv 50. it might be finished by the end of today. ryan
i am taking requests for models if you want to request some. the only thing that is the same is the edge 540 shocky, and the yak 54 shocky. i think we are gonna do a diff scheme on them. just to tell stl, that i did the work. not him. i think i'm gonna go with a chip hyde like scheme for the yak and edge. ryan;)

RE: planes in the works.
 

Dont forget to ask Chip Hyde.[&:]

RE: planes in the works.
 

Ryan,

That does look nice. What program are you using for that?

Now it sounds like WE are trying to start something. And I'm not trying to side with anyone, but the truth is, you could probably use any of their planes, they just want you to get permission for the models THEY created. In fact, there are several OMP planes that would be fun to have. Lets not throw away the opportunity because of an earlier dispute... please.

RE: planes in the works.
 

here is the x racer
ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

i am using rhino 3d. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

i am not going to be putting any of these modelsout yet bcause i have to assure that it's ok with aerofly and reflex. and mayeb cleariew. i don't want to get into any trouble so i don't want to take any chances. as soon as i get permision i will release them. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

You dont need their permission. STL seems to think you do, but those are all your original works, release as you see fit.

RE: planes in the works.
 

If you made these images without first copying them from AFPD, Reflex or clearview, then you can use them.

Hey Ryan, you have inspired me to learn how to use Rhino.....lol. Pretty cool program.

RE: planes in the works.
 

you knwo wat prop nut, i did that with all the basics i learned a few years agi when i was 8 i got rhino and now i''m 11 and see how far i've come in 3 years? if i can do it, you can. what version of rhino do you have? i might have to take you up on that deal for importing the planes. ryan i'll pm you.

RE: planes in the works.
 

here are the components that i will be using in the dalton aviation extra 260 42%. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

hey ryan, those are some wicked cool planes, cant wait to get them.









harv:D

RE: planes in the works.
 

just so everybody know's i made these models and i did not steel them form reflex, aero fly or any other simulator, here are some pics of me building the new tensor 4d. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

Ryan, can't wait to fly them. Hope you get permission soon.

50%(1olL01L0L)

RE: planes in the works.
 

i don't think i need stl's permision, all inned to do is put a sticker on my planes so that he knows i didn't copy his planes. or aerofly pro's. it's a free model. we are making them for free. i will post pics of me building all of the models. so that no one can come against me that i stole them from aerofly pro deluxe. or any other sim. here are some pics of the new tensor 4d that i will finish tomorrow morning. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

Lookin good Ryan.[sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: planes in the works.
 

Verry nice ryan, trensor 4d! i cant wait, too bad i have afpd... Great work though

Nathan

RE: planes in the works.
 

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the whole copyright issue, There is NONE! we at the W3 Group have recently put a copyright attorney on payrole because of some things we have coming down the road for Reflex. You can copy any plane you want, as long as you are building them from scratch. There is no copyright law keeping you from artistic cg rendering of another model. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, there is no way you are building it EXACTLY to the same deminsions as another model that it resembles. People are way to quick to yell copyright when they have no idea what they are talking about. The only problems you run into is using trademarked names , like Tensor, Eflite, Greatplanes, Katana mini....etc. But only if you are selling the end product, not if it is for free. There are no trademarks on paint scheems either...You could trademark one if you really wanted to go through the trouble, but no one in the sim world or RC world has. thats like saying no one can use the color blue with a red stripe down the side because I saw a plane like that before. Full scale planes like the red bull racing team and such do have trademarks on paint scheems but that is very rare. So build away.... And any time you can get permission to use a trademarked name, do it. It's just a nice thing to do. Or at least give credit to the design its based on. If your selling a model and can't get permission, leave the name off. The CG model is yours, even if it is based on another one.

And "STL pilot" is not a trademarked name so stick it on the side of your model with a big thumbs down next to it. He can't do a thing about it.

Chris
W3 Group

RE: planes in the works.
 

That's great news Chris, What can you say about Ricks case as far as the mower goes?


thanks,
50%

RE: planes in the works.
 

What is the W3 group, and why would you have had to put a copyright lawyer on retainer? No offence, its just that I have not hear of it.

RE: planes in the works.
 

Funny how all of the negative posts about a certain forum Moderator have been erased, eh?

RE: planes in the works.
 

Whole forums that has shown himself to be less that genteel have been erased. He has been very vocal in some of the German Forums though. He announced himself there as "Your favorite american" ;)

They pretty much told him it wasnt a bid deal after looking at his evidence.

RE: planes in the works.
 

He had no evidence, he had a grudge against an individual person, and now thanks to him, we lose someone with what, 4 planes released already, and many more close to release?

RE: planes in the works.
 

Rick has issues (sorry Rick but it seems you do) although I like his work. The "Other" guy really seems to have issues (more issues that the Readers Digest). On this debate I find myself on Ricks side but I think the whole thing got way out of hand because the "other" guy started a personal Vendetta. (Vendetta just needed to be capitolized)

RE: planes in the works.
 

STL, would you care to respond to this in light of you suit and false accusations?

50%

RE: planes in the works.
 

Can we be civilized and maybe we can discuss it.

RE: planes in the works.
 

[X(]I thought you'd never ask.

RE: planes in the works.
 

i didn't use the color scheme even. i went with a carbon fiber desighn. it's a glossy carbon fiber so t's kinda shiny. anyways, before and after the paint. ryan

RE: planes in the works.
 

i forgot to add that i jusmade a little park flyer that might 3d, i dunno yet. ryan:D

RE: planes in the works.
 

Looks Great Ryan[sm=thumbup.gif]


50%

RE: planes in the works.
 

forgot the before paint. lol
:D
i also threw in a pic of the sky diver just for fun. ryan:D

RE: planes in the works.
 

thanks 50. ryan (my name):D

RE: planes in the works.
 

10L[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]

RE: planes in the works.
 

OK great.

First off I have nothing against Rick Delten. Sometimes I think he's a little wishy washy, but hey it's who he is, so be it. I have no vendetta against anyone, nobody, life's too short.

Rick and I have had discussions in the past about copyrights/skins etc. I posted threads before, no reason to go over it. I explain to him what he can and cannot do, very simple stuff. It was quite clear and he thanked me for the information. The conversations were good and case was closed. I thought that was the end of it.

Now in regards to the models. You guys are right, the wireframes are very hard to replicate and copy. The word trademark does not come into play in this matter like cwherner said until you use trade names. But ... copyright does. It's grey and it can go either way. There are many factors, but if it's questionable when dealing with copyrights all you have to do is give courtesy and ask permission. If you read copyright laws you will see the word permission many times especially when matters are grey/loose.

For instance: Right now American Aircraft, Republic and others are suing die cast companies/hobby companies for use of their shapes. This is a huge controversy because these planes were paid for for the taxpayers. It's a big mess. Yes, this is all for profit, so the rules are a little different. But for profit or free does not matter copyright violation is copyright violation, the only difference is the size of the award you get if you lose in court.

Now in regards to the skins. The Giles, the Mower and the Shockflyer and perhaps more where 3 viewed from AFPD model editor. Rick knows it, IPACS knows it, I know it. This is a no no. 3W/Compostite ARF owns the copyright on whats on their plane. I already know that IPACS got permission from these companies to use the trims they use on the commercial sim as I was told from the top. IPACS now owns the copyright on the models for AFPD, no and's if's or but's. IPACS is not thrilled and they are not going to sue Rick, but they are trying to get in touch with him to let him know he cannot do that.

In regards to the mower. I asked Rick very nicely to plug FTZ for use of the model which I knew he 3 viewed from AFPD from the get go. No problem Rick ... go for it, just plug us so the Chinese know where it came from. Rick did not like my request and wanted to do things his way. This is when I started looking into other matters and I will not in any circumstances let Rick do what Rick wants to do without permission or simple request. I know I'm not cybercop, but Rick did effect my livelihood personally. When you own your own company and work hard for you livelihood you want to protect it. If he wants to put the URL on the mower and get it out there ... then god bless him.

Now, Rick is a grown man and so am I. Neither of us our kids. I do not want this drama, but I want Rick and everyone else aware that you can under NO CIRCUMSTANCES 3 view planes from AFPD. If you want to create your own skins take them form other sources, plain and simple. Now why Rick has stopped modeling is just the role he does. He will be back, he just making you guys all fall into his drama play and it's working well.

Anyhow ... Rick get your butt back to modeling and that's that.

Respectfully,
DC

RE: planes in the works.
 

I'm glad you're back to this Dion Cini. I do have one question regarding the IPacs eula, I've been told that this would also apply to screenshots and vids of AFPD. If this is so, then why aren't ya'll going after those people? If not, then thanks for the clarification. Also, I don't exactly recall the events as you listed them about the mower the way you stated them. BTW, the last pic of the mower that I saw was one that had the URL on it. I could be wrong and Rick would have to prove either way.

50%

RE: planes in the works.
 

Copyright holders can choose how they want to share their copyrighted materials. In this case IPACS wants screenshots and video to be replicated. In other cases, like 3 viewing and copying for use in other products they don't want this. When you buy AFPD there is a license user agreement, some people read it, some don't. Either way ignorance of the agreement is not reason enough to take your own actions. Call Jim Bourke at Knife Edge and ask him if you can 3 view one of his models for AFPD. Maybe he will say yes, maybe he will say no. Either way Knife Edge is the copyright holder of the images. PERMISSION.

It's too bad the thread is gone. But Rick made things complicated and was being a smart guy. Simple requests deserve simple replies. Especially coming from 2 grown men.

RE: planes in the works.
 

OK.

I understand most of that, and if thats the stance that You and/or Ipacs take then so be it.

Alot of my arguments are more on the morality of it all.

Firstly, none of this is meant to be insulting or casting a negative image of you or the way you think about this problem, I sometimes re-read what I've said later and see that I came accross wrong, and since this is the internet, its easier to do than ever...just want you to know that this is posted without any anger at all towards you.

Fair use is a big deal to me in copyright laws. Im a web-designer, many years solo and now working for a small company. When i was solo, I couldnt count the number of times I seen my photoshop work on someone else's sites...straight ripoffs. With the exception of one person, I never persued any of them to change/remove it (the one person I did ask to remove my stuff was making money on software piracy...suprisingly he obliged without fuss). To me, as long as you 1) Arent making money off of my work, 2) Making my work look bad, or 3) Costing me money by using my own stuff to compete against me; im ok with it.

Im one of the few people who equaly love Windows and Linux. One of the strongest draws of linux to me is obviously the cost (other factors too..but hey, money is money). Everything except support is free as far as the OS goes.

If your familiar with linux or open-source software in general, you know about the GPL. I think the GPL is a far better solution than the traditional copyright laws we have in this country. Take it, change it, redistribute it...a beautiful scenario that has played out millions of times, and the best part is that both sides still come out winners.

That being said, I do think that Rick should have given credit where it was due. I think alot of it comes down to pride. I know what its like to spend 20+ hours on a project and then have to put someone elses name on it...it sucks. Its also a situation that needs to be dealt with discretly, because when you interject pride into any situation, it playing with fire. STL, i know that probably personally, your a good guy, I've given you alot of flak this last week, and im sure alot of it was not completely deserved...(I appologize, really...i tend to have a short temper sometimes...and once i get started I dont know when to stop). Saying that, some of what you have said and meant no harm with comes off kinda rough (hence, what i was talking about above with the internet). I obviously have not seen what you wrote Rick originally about the mower, but it obviously stirred him up a little. I wont take sides on that, but it does seem to be the root of this issue...

Short of the virus (harmfull or not, that was a really bad move on your part), and even considering that, i dont think that anything anyone has said will be remembered 2 months from now, and i try to live by the rule that if its not going to bother me 2 months from now, i should just forget it. I think we all should. Put this mess behind us.

To rick. I like you man, your feisty like me...and your a hell of a modeler. I also know for a fact that you're a hell of a painter. Take your models, and make some entirely new schemes. Ill help out if you want...modeling has been ticking me off lately...so i havent been doing much. Put the FTZ logo on the mower so you can release it. Your really punishing everyone else by not releasing it. And it really isnt too much to ask. I know that I will probably never make more than 2 or 3 planes for G3, if that. Of those, 1 might be good. You've already put out a handfull of GREAT planes.

As for getting permission for things. Play along man, i dont like those rules, but in the end, those ARE the rules. Im sure getting permission and putting a txt file in the zip will make everyone happy. You didnt have a problem giving ryan credit for the physics testing, or giving nemo credit for the pilot...so it shouldnt be too big of a deal.

I think we all just let this go to far, and now some damage has been done to both sides. So now what? Its easy, fix the problems, they really are minor, and go on.

Once again, to everyone that has read though this argument (over the many threads its been in), to the mods, and Especially to STL, I appologize for acting like a child and continuing to fan the flames of a pointless war. Lets get over it and get back to flying...please?