RE: E85
 

I have tried lots of plugs, but getting European plugs is a problem here. I know a fair amount about 2 stroke plugs, but don't have a clue about the 4 strokes, what heat range they are, how much platinum they have, exactly how they retain their heat from cycle to cycle, ect. All the 4 stroke plugs I have tried run well on E85 (except the Fox brand, which runs poorly). The big problem is that they all die fast when used in a 2 stroke engine. I guess they can't handle the extra power, the coil breaks after a few flights. The Thundebolt plug I mentioned is the only one I have tried that does not burn out after multiple flights. It is advertised as a "4 stroke and 91+ 2 stroke plug", so I would look for a European plug that has a similar description.
Wrapping the head with an insulator is important as well. Measuring the temperature I see that the engine will not run reliably until the head is at least in the high 200's F, and the plug heater has to be kept on much longer than with methanol fuel as well, adding further stress to the plug. Starting the engine is difficult in temperatures below 50 degrees F. I squirt a little pure methanol into the carburetor for starting to solve the problem. Once the engine is heated up, it runs fine, I don't have any dead sticks anymore, and the needle valve sensitivity is much less when the engine is a stable high temperature. I highly recommend getting an infra red remote thermometer to figure out how big a baffle you need on your particular engine cylinder head.

Good luck!

RE: E85
 

thanks

excelent info keep it coming

My understanding is that with less oxygen on the molecule for ethanol and no oxygen the gasoline molecule the less fuel input and beter ranges obtained compared to Methanol fuels would reduce cooling from as less fuel is put into engine to soak up heat

Also the platinum reacts best with methanol and less better with ethanol and often requires a permanent on board glow driver to react with gasoline fuels

I think also a measure of the RPM would indicate if there was a drop in power from possibly the gasoline not burning at all or the fuel is not burning completely and therefore reducing benefits to change fuels to a pure 100% E85 version

E85 mathematically should result in a 5% to 20% power drop over methanol fuels due to less calorific values with smaller engines showing the biggest power drops

But a lot of experiments being done in this time do not seem to match the predictions ??

every extra fuel solution all helps

balsaeateer

RE: E85
 

Came to think of the OS A3 plug which I believe should have a coil of somewhat thicker diameter than usual...and pretty cheap plug too...have you tried it..??....Cheers/Harald

RE: E85
 

There were some questions about my posts, so I will elaborate further. Before I tried E85, I was mixing my fuel with methanol with no nitro. I tried all kinds of mixures to see how they worked. I tried mixing gasoline and diesel in various percentages. They both caused very poor operation in all ambient temperatures. I was surprised about the gasoline problems, but I suspect it interferes with the catalytic effects of the methanol and platinum. The more I added, the worse it got until it would not run. Needle sensitivity got worse as well. I did not have an IR remote thermometer so can't comment on engine temperature. I did not take notes at that time, so don't remember what plugs I tried ( I since have wised up and write down everything I do). I abandoned the use of other fuel additives with the exception of acetone, which helps a bit in cold weather starting. When methanol prices rose to over $5 a gallon here I started experimenting with E85. I have never had access so far to summer E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline). I have only used winter blend (pump sign says "may contain up to 30% gasoline"), so I don't know what the actual mix is. I am sure the gasoline is interfering with combustion as it did when I tried it with methanol, so I am hoping for better performance when I get my hands on the summer blend.
I tried lots of plugs, the OS A3 needs the glow heater attached for the engine to run. I tried Thunderball super cool plugs, the engine runs but it appears the timing is retarded as the engine power is low. Other cold plugs worked better, the best was the Duratrax Gold plug, but the element would burn out after a few flights. The OS R5 was not quite as good as the Gold plug, with the same burn out problem. All standard plugs will not run without the glow heater installed. 4 stroke plugs generally ran very well, except the Fox Miracle plug, which was not much better than a standard plug. They all burn out after a few flights except the Thunderbolt #115480 which is advertised as a 4 stroke and .91+ 2 stroke plug. This is the only plug that seems to run well and not burn out prematurely. I don't know much about 4 stroke plugs, can't seem to find a good site online. Some other posts say they have good luck with the OS A3 and other hot plugs. It may be engine dependent, as none of my engines run with it. Also my flight field (cow pasture) is at 5300 feet above sea level, and all my E85 tests have been in the winter with cold temperatures. The engines I have tried are older OS FP .25, OS FP .40, Vecco and K&B .61, newer OS LA .40, Super Tigre .45, Thunder Tiger .46 engines (several of each). They all have similar operation on E85, with the older engines running the best.

RE: E85
 

P.S. from my last post ( I always forget something). There were some questions about power loss with E85. Some posts claim there is only a few hundred RPM drop in power when compaired to commercial glow fuel or methanol without nitro. This is not my experience. Realistically you can expect a drop of at least 1000 RPM, and likely several 1000 RPM. This is a substantial power drop. To get a good idea of how much power you lose, download the free "extended prop" software and calculate the power loss from:

www.gylesaero.com

The software available at this website is among the most usefull I have encountered. Some programs are not free, but the prices are one step above free and top notch.

Good luck!

RE: E85
 

My local prices for 100% methanol are ~$15 USA gallon and been static for several years

My Gasoline and E85 prices are ~$ 6.50 a USA gallon

Most Europe would be simalr high prices due to tax so E85 is a very very interesting option

Ethanol would tend to run best at lower compression ratios (CR) than Methanol But higher compression ratios than Gasoline

Probably find the older engine are built for low CR with high nitro to bring CR back up

On a engine with 10,000 RPM with methanol a drop to 9000 RPM would often mean ~20% plus drop in power and not 10% due to the drag^4 affects on props


With the cost of motors being very low relative to fuel cost simply purchasing a motor with 25% to 50 % plus bigger size in CC or cubic inch would often still make this a very interesting fuel to use when Methanol cost exceeds $ 5 a USA gallon and at $15 a no brainer


Thanks for saving me experimentation with straight gasoline from your results

Its E85 or E85 glow mix of some sorts

thanks for the links

Balsaeater

RE: E85
 

I have been starting to buy older engines on Ebay that are larger than recommended for my planes, .40 for the .25 planes, .61 for the .40 ect. to make up for the reduced power of my home made fuels. It adds weight, but the lower fuel consumption allows less fuel per flight, so it sort of evens out. I only use synthetic oil at 10%, so that increases the power slightly as well. With the lower power output and cooler operating temperatures I have no fears of ruining engines. If I ever do destroy one with too little oil (I haven't done so yet), the saving in fuel costs makes up for the occational loss of an engine, witch are mostly used anyway. For a competative flyer, cheap fuel mixes don't make sense, but for the fun flyer it is the only way to go.

RE: E85
 

For those of you interested, I just bought a case (4 gallons) of Green Heavy 4 Stroke oil from Morgans Fuels. It cost $25.30 per gallon including shipping. That is cheaper than caster oil, and considerably better. I was surprised it was not more expensive. The phone number is:

334-347-3525

RE: E85
 

I have always bought my oil from these guys, its 54 bucks a case of 4 gallons.. plus shipping

I always used the light with castor, works fine for me...

They sometimes run a free shipping deal, wait for it stock up!!!!

http://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm

RE: E85
 

Looks like Tommys Karts is the place to buy oil, cheaper than the manufacturer. It may be about the same after shipping though. It said $8.00 minimum or something to that effect. I assume that is per gallon. They also had the heavy without caster oil (case) for $66.24, still a great price. I only use the caster free stuff, since in winter the caster oil gums up the engine. Does anyone know of a place that sells the oil in the center of the country for those of us out here?

Thanks

RE: E85
 

I just called and placed another order and it was 20 bucks for 4 gallons shipping not a bad deal, plus gives me a reason to keep on flying I could never waste all that good oil!!

RE: E85
 

I have been doing more flying with E85 fuel, and have started having problems with the Thunderbolt 115480 glow plugs. Previously I posted that these are the only plugs that seem to make the engine run well with no premature failures. I have had one coil burn out and one where the coil still has continuity but will not run the engine with the glow heater removed. The last one will run an engine fine using 15% Omega (Morgan fuels). These are cheap plugs and it looks like they just have plated coils, and the platinum burns off eventually. With methanol fuel less platinum is needed. It isstarting to look like one would be wise to have some methanol in the fuel mix. Hopefully someone out there with more knowlege of plugs than I have will find the perfect plug, as that is the big hurtle in using E85 fuel. With rapid plug burn outs, it makes the cost of using the fuel as expensive as commertial fuel. Note the one plug that still has continuity but will not run on E85 was in an OS FP .25, a rather mild engine that does not run especially hot.

RE: E85
 

yes if we need to change glow plus more often the saving will be more limited

I will probably start with experments with a
30% E85 mix
55% methanol
10% EDL Synthetic oil and
5% nitro

As you say maybe a E85 methanol mix will work better

I know in the 1960 's era they often had a lot of different ingredients in fuel including 5 % gasoile petrol

They they gradually settled on the pure Methanol mix probably becuase of glow issues and the stuff in that time was cheaper

For me Methanol neat costs ~$13 a USA gallon in small amounts and ~$10 a USA gallon in 55 gallon drum

E85 costs at $ 6 a USA gallon mixed in at 30% will give me approx 50% saving on fuel costs if it works

keep us posted

balsaeater

RE: E85
 

May be a little off topic but I have been running E85 in my 89 Plymouth with no ill effects. I think everyone is being overly cautious about the stuff. I wouldn't run it in a 2 stroke weedeater without a compatible lube like castor but in the old Plymouth, no problems. And at $1.00 a gallon less than regular.

RE: E85
 

Again off topic...how did you change the fuel ration for the E85, does someone have a conversion kit for carburetors and fuel injectors?

RE: E85
 

There are a few things to consider. ONe is I don't run it full strength only about 50 50. others are you need an in tank fuel pump , you can't use a suction type pump because you will be inviting vapor lock. Try this link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU I had to bump up the timing a little for the best performance. Now I can run it full strength.

RE: E85
 

I did a recent test using summer blend E85 in a .25 size engine that although had seen better days was still very serviceable. Baseline Morgans 5% nitro Hanger 9 plug 9X6 prop. gave 11,800
Then I mixed up just E85 with 20% castor. got 11,300 but it wants a very hot plug!
Next I mixed the morgans 5% and E85 mix together and got 11,500 with the same hanger 9 plug.
My calculations say I can make E85/20%castor mix for $6.88 a gallon. If I mix it 50/50 with my regular nitro fuel the savings could really add up.
I also found a little acetone in the Plymouth works wonders. I advanced the cam slightly to improve the low speed torque and plan to increase the fuel pressure slightly to provide better air fuel ratio. I can now run the E85 about 70% without too much driveability issues. Being such an old car it has issues on regular gas too.
I did not try any acetone in my glow testing but it seems reasonable especially if minor amounts can be used since the cost is about $5.00 a guart .

RE: E85
 

Excellent info keep the information coming for both models and real automobiles
Acetone is best I can see is used at ~3% and would typically replace 5% nitro and
acetone helps the slow speed tick over of the model engines like nitro does but unlike
5% nitro has no benefit to top end that I can establish
Also Acetone is usually 1/3 the price of nitro and seems to only require ~3% so saving
seem to be possible such as replacing 5% nitro or instead of 10% nitro it seems 3%
acetone and 5% nitro would also work
I will probably do Acetone in my NEW 26cc MVVVS when it is run in as it is on 5% nitro
now
Then if that works for the 26CC MVVS motor I will start to try to give it some E85 and
as E85 is half the price per gallon of methanol for me if the motor can do 50% methanol
and 50% E85 without eating glow plugs then big saving are to be had for my model plane glow engines

But before lots of guys go throwing E85 into their own car fuel tanks these figures may help a bit to see if it is worth the effort


In 1974 fuel crisis as a teen I took my 50c c 4 gears Yamaha motorbike top speed ~50mph
and did a four run one track experiment with a 100cc of fuel

1 st run full tilt 4 th gear ~50 mph using 100cc of fuel until it ran out
= 1 run of one or 1 mile nearly exactly ~ 45MPG UK gal (~35USA gal)

2nd run full tilt 3rd gear ~35 mph using 100cc of fuel
= 2nd run of two times one mile or 2 miles exactly ~90MPG UK gal (~70USA gal)

3rd run slow as possible 4th gear ~20mph using 100cc of fuel until it ran out
= 3 runs of one mile or 3 miles nearly ~135MPG UK gal (~110 USA gal)

4 th run slow as possible 3rd gear ~10mph using 100cc of fuel until it ran out
= 4 runs of one mile or 4 miles nearly ~180MPG UK gal (~150 USA gal)

Actually I think from memory it had a bit a of fuel left over on the a last run of 4 miles enough for 5 to 6 runs so 250MPG might have been possible but I just couldn't take any more driving at a snails pace ~10mph

It strongly points to changing driving speeds can change MPG and costs more without changing fuels for most people



For those who wish to understand how to get the MAX MPG from any fuel the study of the
competition on ~2000MPG special lightweight Trikes on gasoline mostly using 50cc engines
http://www.shell.com/home/content/uk...on_060707.html
This competition shows often the best fuel figures they get are from accelerating slowly up to ~40MPH and switching off the engine .
Then they are free wheeling( engine off) back down to ~20MPH
Then they switch engine back on and repeating the cycle
This improved the previous ~1500 MPG from steady state speed driving at ~30 MPH to this newer solution floating from 40 to 20 MPH and returned ~2000MPG and so was beneficial on the
50cc engine scale


This brings me back to simplex experiments MPG done this year in my own two cars mostly done for my my late 1990's hatch back compact Suziki swift 1000cc and seldom used late 1990's Volvo V40 station wagon


I have gone from last year when I first bought the small car a modest ~35MPG UK (~30MPG USA
GALLON ) with normal driving to reaching ~65MPG UK (~55MPG USA GALLON ) with super
careful driving free wheeling engine running on tick over where possible (note free wheeling is for manual gear box cars but even coasting helps MPG for my friend a hyper miler in San Francisco who does good MPG on his Honda civic automatic )
Also being quicker to switch off engine in severe traffic jams or long traffic lights helps a bit
Most helpful of all methods for low MPG I figure is very slow acceleration just like a slow coach granny would do and again as well change into highest gears ASAP (accept going up hills an labouring engine ) and then rarely exceeding 45 MPH even on the high ways

Bumping up highway speeds to 55 MPH makes the the fuel figure drop to ~55MPG UK (~45MPG
USA GALLON or a ~15% increase in fuel consumption to gain a speed of ~12% more

I often do one week in the month a long commute of a total 70 miles per day (2*35 miles )so nowadays I usually set the the speed for ~50MPH a compromise that only costs me 10 minutes extra each way on the previous 1 hour single way journey time
commute
That makes it a 1 hour 10 minute commute each way but I get nearly the double MPG
staying below 50 MPH than going to 70MPH which is possible as most all the journey is
a highway commute

I am planning later on to try to add E85 fuels to the gasoline in increments to see what are the results
E85 fuel costs often 20% less than gasoline in my part of Europe ( about $ 7 plus a gallon USA and
still easily with higher taxes the double the USA fuel costs )

I would be hopeful that a 50% gasoline 50% E85 mix would return me a saving of an
extra 10% more again even with maybe a 10% drop in MPG as Alcohol fuels hopefully supply
more grunt and smoother running at lower RPM which can then recoup the lost power that
gasoline loses from knock affects

So for me the biggest fuel saving to be made could be from amputating the right foot of all
motorists which could save 30% of any countries car fuel bills immediately as they would be right foot less easier to retrain in fuel saving methods before changing to other fuels types like E85
or diesel whatever

It probably explains where the famous pre internet days classic mail order scam for 50% fuel
saving came from
The gee whiz high tech gizmo's you got through the postal service was a humble house brick to put under the gas pedal and it did actually save gas and improve MPG :D

(Please I don't want to debate the merits or safety issues of free wheeling of a my car or other cars
I mostly 90% of the time when I free wheel do it it is in heavy traffic at less than 30MPH on
straight roads in between the out of sync traffic lights so its not a big deal
Also having having got better with free-wheeling methods for more than 10,000 miles of real
intensive fuel saving driving methods to see how effective it is I have also increased the use of it on down hills good road dry conditions at speeds of up to ~50MPH including around mild corners mostly going down hills
Each hill or case of free wheeling is individual according to the local conditions where I precieve my own car can do it safely
The last 10,000 mile brake pad tests showed no signs of extra wear and tear from lack of drive shaft drag and extra braking required

(My perception of safety is based on having more than 100,000 miles driving under me
in many countries in several continents on every type of road from good highways to dirt tracks .
For me is up to every motorist to decide what type of driving they wish to conduct that they believe is safely possible in their own cars )

Nowadays I more rarely do the practice of free wheeling especially on straight highways as I found
the more constant fuel saving were to be made keeping a steady speed on the gas pedal and most benefits from free wheeling were to be found in slow down town traffic conditions free wheeling up to red traffic lights
Free wheeling experments on full size cars do not compare very favorably to the 2000MPG light weight expermental trikes success

It is very difficult to get gas pedal and engine RPM synchronised for engaging gears without
some sort of extra gas usage from changing gas pedal regimes
This made short or medium free wheeling events less interesting even in my small compact car
Also to factor in is the fact the modern cars are often coupled to power assisted brakes & steering and cant really allow switching engines off while driving .
This means the car engine has to stay on tick over when free wheeling reducing a lot of the saving from free wheeling

My best guess is most drivers as in probably 98% will not get any useful fuel saving with any free
wheeling over the benefits of simply coasting in higher gears but the older the car the
more chance to gain from free wheeling events
If the very older car is manual shift with manual steering and brakes and is allowing engine switch of solutions then more gain might be possible

The more modern high spec a car is with the new computer fuel engine monitoring systems the less likely the free wheeling will benefit the MPG for car
The modern engines control the fuel flow far better to match load demands
I think they even cut fuel off a lot when when coasting and low loads
Thus far my limited tests on my other late ninety's gas guzzling 25MPG Volvo V40 saloon car show no MPG benefits from free wheeling that I can establish on the small mileage I use that car possibly from the better fuel monitoring solutions it might have


(I mention free wheeling issues because there is always the famous lecture from some source about free wheeling issues )
(For USA 98% is automatic transmission so the problem doesn't really exist in the USA )

My talks with run of the mill taxi drivers using modern 5/6 gear Automatic gear box
cars using best economy setting for the shift drive indicates they gain a much better
MPG over manual shift versions of similar models of cars
This indicates the average manual shift gear box car driver stays too long in the wrong gears thereby using too much fuel
this means when possible my future car purchases will lean towards Automatic gear box
I figure even with the so called 10% loss in the oil slip gear box affect I figure it will probably get better MPG than manual gear box solutions


I estimate with my fairly low annual mileage 15,000 miles it will need to cost $50 a gallon for diesel or flex fuel cars extra premium costs to get back my capital outlay over present day gasoline solutions
If Flex fuel can work with out expensive gizmo's then it can be good for me
Even a $200 dollar kit to convert to flex fuel might take me 20,000 miles to get my money back or unless fuel goes to $30 a gallon

Hopefully some pointers can help some guys save a few $$$ and return some extra MPG

I hope this weekend to do a 400 mile return journey and will hopefully do decent at night at 55mph and return at daytime at 45mph so as to compare long distance advantages .
I estimate ball park 55 MPH will return ~55 gallon UK and 45 MPH will return ~70MPG UK but a long journey might show other results



Ralf

RE: E85
 

Hey Down.

What is the gab between the piston and head on your Super Tigre GS 45 after the modification?

RE: E85
 

BalsaChewer. The acetone in the E85 made the Plymouth much easier to start and also helped with a lean stumble. My fuel system after this many years is no doubt a little weak and when accelerating with high amounts of E85 will cause a stumble from the engine going too lean. (Younger drivers will not know this since it was much more common on pre fuel injected engines. ) this also happens with regular gas in the Plymouth but to a lesser extent. Therefore I need to find a way to increase the fuel pressure slightly so it will inject more fuel in the same injector cycle time. No small feat since the regulator is built in to the throttle body. I suppose I could disable the throttle body regulator and install a return line regulator but that costs money. I have spent nothing so far on my "adjustments" to E85. I believe the E85 mixing with glow fuel is significant since I can use my high nitro fuels that I already own to make lower nitro fuel.

RE: E85
 

The before figures for the ST had the piston coming to within .2mm from the top of the liner and there's a .2mm shim fitted. The head itself had a .2mm recess to the squish band so in total the original squish clearance was .6mm (.0236" ). I machined off the seating area flush with the squish band and removed the shim so the head was lowered by .4mm leaving a .2mm (.008" ) clearance.

RE: E85
 

Cheers, Down.
I’ll try the same. Thank you very much [sm=shades_smile.gif]

Grams, meters, liters and beers rules!!!![sm=bananahead.gif]

RE: E85
 

I have converted OS Gemeni 1.60 to ignition running on methanol 4 stroke Glow fuel 15% nitro, runs great very reliable 850 RPM idle. I am thinking to run it on E85 with 18% syntehtic oil added. I was wondering if the power will surge running on E85 vs Glow fuel any idea?.

RE: E85
 

I just checked out http://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm#COOL POWER
You mentioned you use the "light with castor". I dont see that discription.
Is this the same company as cool power fuel?
How would this compare to Klotz.
It seems to be the oil cost that seems to drive the cost of our fuels at moderate nitro %s like say 10%. If this site has good oils for our engines, then that could really lower cost of fuel.

Ken

<br type="_moz" />

RE: E85
 

I will have to admit not reading quite all the posts here, but I was going to run the E85 in my .40 size stuff and the gas station wouldn't sell me any unless it went directly into a car clearly labelled as that.  But anyway has anyone tried E85 with say a 32 to 1 mixture of 2 stroke motorcycle oil?  It would mix with the gasoline portion and seems to lubricate weed wackers and bikes fine.  I don't think all of them have roller bearings on the con rod.  The biggest cost is the oil for models (nitro)  This would cut the amount of oil needed a lot.  The Ethanol could be replaced with Methanol too, as long as some percentage is gasoline to mix with the oil.  Anyone try this before?

RE: E85
 

E85 stands for Ethanol 85%. However the acutal percentage is allowed to vary. I do not know how much.

RE: E85
 

There is no such thing as plated plugs. The wire is an alloy, the hot ones mayhave more platinum than cold plugs. The problem is oxidation of the wire, it can be cleaned ina slightly acidic solution.

RE: E85
 

Methanol is cheaper than gas. Why not replace the diaphram with a silicon diaphram and mix methanol, gas, and oil?

RE: E85
 

That is kind of what I was thinking, mixing methanol or ethanol with gas, but motorcycle oil.  BUT not for spark ignition, but for .40 glow.  Here I can not get methanol cheaper than gas and gas is $1.32 a litre(US quart appr.)  I have to pay about $10 for 4 litres plus 13% sales tax for methanol in small quantities.  That is ok, but I want to run 32 to 1 two stroke oil in the .40 glow.  This will mean 3% oil instead of 20% like normal, if it will mix with the methanol/gasoline.  It should equal more power because of more fuel and less oil.(if it doesn't wreck the motor)

RE: E85
 

aspeed, On small glow(.40) engines with no needle bearings on the connecting rod........you have to have at least 18% oil in solution(meaning the oil is not separating from the fuel) so the connecting rod will not wear out prematurely. On bigger engines with needle bearings on the connecting rod.....then it is OK to have a 1 to 32 oil to fuel mixture. The needle bearings need only a little oil in the fuel........but the non-needle bearing connecting rod will need a lot of oil in the fuel. Larry.

RE: E85
 

Aww, so I guess it's been tried.

RE: E85
 

You shoul be able to buy a 5 gallon can of methanol for about $20 -25 from VP or Torcoand have it shipped. Not sure it is worth the shipping and hazmat fee, but worth checking.

I think you would have to call one of their dealers located in Canada

http://torcoracefuel.net/dealers.html#Canada

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-racing-dealers.html

RE: E85
 

Ethanol and methanol need more oil than gas. I think 5% is about as low as you can go on large enginesif you have needle bearings in the connecting rod. 1 to 32 will not work with alcohol. A .40 needs at least 12% oil, but best with 20%.

RE: E85
 

The methanol won't mix with the motorcycle oil.  that is why I have been thinking of using gasoline or diesel or something else in just a sufficient quantity to still get the glow plug fired off with the methanol.  If the gasoline mixes with the methanol AND the cheaper/orbetter quality oil, then maybe much less oil could be used.  I got a couple of old K&amp;B .40 motors I don't mind sacrificing, but wonder if anyone has tried it.  One guy said it worked with basically chainsaw fuel at 32/1 in a Fox .15 but was hard to set the needle. Maybe 80% methanol, 3% motorcycle oil, 17% gasoline or?  is what I was thinking. to start and adjusting the methanol/gasoline mix.  It would be much better for bigger motors to use something similar to this for the .90 and bigger size stuff.  It is easy to go through a gallon on a good day of flying. 

RE: E85
 

3% oil even when mixed with some gasoline is not enough oil for a K&amp;B .40. You have a bushed rod that needs to retain some oil. Gasoline is a mix of hydrocarbons including a small amount of long chain molecules or in other words thin oil. Methanol is just one atom plus a small amount of water. So you will burn the engine up with just 3% oil. You need at least 12% oil, and with that you have no insurance with a lean run, I would use 17%.

RE: E85
 

Does the mineral oil lube better than synthetic/castor mix?

RE: E85
 

Rdabaghian,

I just converted anolder os 160 Gemini(serial number is in the 600's!)to spark as well. Istarted with 5% nitro fuel and OS F's to get the benchmark (17/6 @ 8200 RPM). Then Itore the motor down so I could drill and tap screw holes for the ignition pickup,replacing all the bearings in the process. Same fuel on spark yielded a 100 RPMincrease (old plugs or 30 degree advance?). I've got the old style air bleed carb so idle is not as spectacular as yours is. Then I mixed up a gallon of E85 w/ 20% Klotz and gave it a whirl. Fired right up andafter Ileaned out the high end about 1/2 turn and got 7800 on the same prop, 8000 was possible but I was worried I was running too lean. Idle was the same, cylinder head temp appeared to be higher as well and it does seem to be sensitive to needle setting. As a test when running nitro, I added a catch can to the crank vent to see how much oil ran through the crank case after an6 oz fuel run, it appeared to be a little less thenan ounce (my ratio right only goes to 2 oz so it was a big guess). After a similar run with the E85 mix I got only about 1/3 the oil in the catch can (due in part to a leaner needle setting I'm sure). That has me slightly concerned that the motor is not receiving enough oil to protect the vitals. I'm on the fence about continuing with the E85. I love the cost, oh and it smells so good when the motor is running. I've got video of the engine running on both fuels, once I get them uploaded I'll post.

RE: E85
 

If you are running 20% oil I don't think you have anything to worry about.  On a four stroke the oil is not very diluted so a little goes a long way.  As long as the bearings are getting a good coating I wouldn't worry.  I would check to see if the cam and rockers are getting good lube.  Also I might see if some petrol oil or castor oil will mix with the fuel and your synthetic as synthetic glow oils will not cling to the steel bearings as long as petrol or castor and that could cause rust.

When you are getting better performance from gas than glow it often means you were not using the best glow plug temp.  Often with four strokes the plug is too hot because of the worries that it will cool too much during the intake stroke.  However with 5% you may have needed a hotter plug or smaller prop.  The RPM indicates that possibly the prop was too small as most 4 strokes deliver their best power above 9000, some over 10,000, but I am not sure of the best RPM for this engine.  Also the engine would deliver the best power at the same RPM regardless of the fuel, I would adjust that by switching to a smaller prop.

Also since you have at least some oil that comes with the 15% gas I would actually lower the oil percentage, maybe 17% or so.  This would also increase performance a tad.  With all gas I would go with 12%, unless it has roller rod ends, then I would probably go with 37:1.

RE: E85
 

Here is the FT160 on E-85,

<dd>http://youtu.be/4czJnxjED3g</dd>

RE: E85
 

I think I missunderstood your prior post.  You got 100 RPM increase on glow fuel on spark, not pure gas, correct?  Not bad as you cannot get a glow plug perfectly dialed in on timing.