hyman

-bb14x - G260RC Engine w/Full ESP Porting 4+ HP
-bb32x - ESP Modified & ESP Fully Ported 30.5cc CY31RC Engine 4.5+ HP
-bb35x - CY29RC Headkit Engine w/Clutch 3.75 HP
i got a baja from http://www.davesmotors.com/store/hpibaja5bparts.html , What do you think of this setup? Which is better? I heard that the CY engine has got only torque...not much rpm. The 29cc of CY easily can beat the 30.5cc at high RPM, Is it true?

Im looking for high RPM and performance. which setup to reach the maximum RPM and torque? e.g. carb, tune pipe and etc.

what is your recommendation? i can afford one of the above engines. What should i get? and why?

cyclops1970

My Feedback: (5)

myself if i had the choice i would go for the 26 esp ! best of all worlds .

R.Robinson

A stock red cap Zenoah puts out 4 hp. with the ESP kit I guess more. A zenoah motor has more RPM than a CY engine and is better Quality.

BuggZy99

My Feedback: (2)

i had a zen 26cc, swapped it for a cy 29cc, and from first hand experience, NO lost in speed, i did gain it torque of the line.

bryan70546

My Feedback: (4)

4 hp stock you sure about that...........................thought i was more like 2.8 seems kind of high for a stock motor.as far a quality i find cy just as good as a zenoh .but i do like the zenoh better.for the higher revs , but i love my cy30.5 esp when i add the reed and reed work 7hp is what i am looking at.

IONIC-M

Race ported 28.5cc I think is a great engine!! My ZEN 26 ran great but I like my 28.5 better. It has alittle more lowend but best of all IT will REV TO THE MOON!!

R.Robinson

YEA!!! Im right . A stock Zenoah 230 puts out 2.8. HP. the RED cap motors put out a lot more HP. Red cap 230 3.25 HP and the 260 4 HP. Plenty of power. If you want more power in these little engines expect a shorter life and frequent rebuilds.

SELWA

My Feedback: (1)

Not sure how the Baja drive will hold up with that much torque since it has a 23CC stock. My 30.5cc race ported is doing a number on my Leopard Race dogbones.

ryan@ddm

Unfortunately, you are dead wrong.

A stock "red cap" G230RC puts out 2.8 HP... WITHOUT EXHAUST. With a canister exhaust peak HP goes down by approx 1/2 HP.
A stock "red cap" G260RC puts out 3.0 HP... WITHOUT EXHAUST.

Take a look at the manufacturer numbers:
http://zenoah.net/products/hobby/g230rc.html
and the owners manual:
http://zenoah.net/products/hobby/dow...G260RC_307.pdf

to verify for yourself.

The older, "black cap" style of G230RC put out 2.5 HP without exhaust.

Earth Surfer

Ryan is right, but a stock G260 (the new or the old) will make about 4hp with a good pipe. I think that is what your talking about.

IMO the Zen cylinders and the GP29 cylinder are the best quality on the market (and both could be better). The GP29 cylinder has a lot of compression though, that will hurt top RPM (but great for grunt). The stock porting of the newer Zen cylinders is ported for more top RPM than the port timeing of all the other CY cylinders. The CY cylinders knocked off the old Zen port timeing--and never changed it. The exhaust choice might not let you see that difference in actual performance, and you might actually get the opposite results with different set ups--because a pipe,that is actually matched to porting for a particular application is really pretty rare so far.

A cy29cc (35,, bore and 30mm stroke) will not out rev the ESP30.5 top end---everything else being equal. The 30.5 piston is bigger in bore dia, for more power, the compression is corrected and uses a better gemoetry for more top end. The cy29 engines I tested three years ago (when they came out) reved lower than any other RC engine out there (stock), but they have good low end (the 36mm bore GP29 cylinder did not exist at that time--Go-Ped came out with it less than 2 years ago). The CY29 head kit (the pretty heads) revs lower than the non head kit (and is the lowest reving of all RC engines stock) version and does not perform across the RPM range as well as the CY29 non head kit top end.--The 30.5cc engine beats both of them in power everywhere, more top end (everything else being equal) and is much more reliable. (no funy piston wear the 35mm bores have--or warped cylinder tops that tend to leak)

I am not a fan of the Zen 32mm bore, because it is just a smaller engine, But it's a good engine. So, IMO, I only choose between the Zen G260 cylinder (or moded G260 cylinders) or the GP29 cylinder (espically when head modded) to build the best engines that I think can be made. IMO, other than the high compression of the GP29 cylinder, the quality is just as good as the Zen top ends.

For top speed, I would start off with a G260 because of it's shorter stroke and more high RPM porting--and try to find a high reving pipe. When you start hitting about 19,000 RPM, your doing a respectable job for a higher RPM engine.

For track racing and bashing, the bigger 30.5cc is more fun out of the tight stuff and into the next jump. A good pipe may make the ESP30.5cc actually rev pretty good (if it is a controlable power delivery), and I would not be suprised to see up to 17,500 RPM out of it with the right pipe.

I have not done any RPM testing on my RC car yet---my numbers are based with my 200 plus lb body on a Go-Ped with one gearing choice, and one chosen pipe. I am not sure if a RC car would rev higher, lower, or the same.

Exhaust choices are the big question mark right now. If you want top end, you can easily buy the wrong pipe for your hyper G260, and end up with a moderatly reving engine (pipe does not work well with the high reving porting). We don't know if a pipe can be raced on a track and stay in control for fast lap times on the 2 wheel drives (until we start racing them), and we don't know which pipes want to rev and which ones have more low end power--how hard they hit--how smooth they are--etc etc. Pipes have just as many, if not more, combinations in geometry to enhance the power where you want it.

The CY 27 is actually a good size for good torque and really good RPM and a lot of people like their performance. It could be a step up from the G260 if it had updated porting, corrected compression and better quality---but both the CY27 and CY29 (both 35mm bore cylinders) have quality issues I don't like, and I think should have and could have been fixed years ago. Both cylinders will wear the piston badly on the intake skirt because I think the piston to cylinder wall clearance may be too tight. The cylinder squishes the stock gasket a bit when you tighten them down, and it actually pushes the cylinder wall (near the intake side bolt) inward enough to cause piston scuffing near the bottom of it's stroke. (I have over 60 brand new 35mm bore top ends here, that were test run at the factory as complete engines, to prove it.) Most of the time, the problem could be solved by using a .020" copper gasket instead of the stock .020" paper gasket. The copper gasket does not compress like the paper, and usually you won't feel any binding by turning the crank shaft (not flywheel) by hand with no plug in it and the ignition removed. With the stock gasket--it is like--tighten the cylinder to spec--feel the bind--loosen the cylinder a bit--the bind goes away. I never measure it, but I am almost positive that the cylinder to piston clearance could use another .001" clearance. The 29cc CYhead kit engine (I never used the 27cc head kit version) is a good low end performer, and has a pretty respectable mid range performance for bashing---But the quality for function is poor on that head kit. IMO, that kit should have been redesigned about 2 years ago. The head kit was designed for sales (probably by sales people)--not performance. The stock CY cylinders I tested worked quite a bit better and more reliable, and were the best top end out there when they came out (accept the plating stunk).

I like the GP290 cylinder the best because it is bigger, and Go-Ped (who came out with the bigger cylinder) worked with CY well to make their product better. Their plating also stunk at first--it was even worse then the other CY cylinders--I think they still use different plating than the other CY cylinders. I personally called the owner of Go-Ped and thanked him for working with CY to make the plating better on that large bore 36mm cylinder that was a shame to be a waste. Go-Ped did a great job, and CY is more willing to work with their customers than Zenoah is (typical japanese company--they allways know what is best for their customers). The other companies using the CY factory don't seem to have that same drive in working with CY (and other people who know two stroke design) to improve their products. The other companies did offer us larger bores, and stroked cranks first though---so my hat is off to them for that. I just wish they would not be so worreid about retail price and do some improvements so I did not have to say--"I don't like the 35mm bore cylinders".

huw4027

Thanks for sharing with us your wealth of knowledge. [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

bryan70546

My Feedback: (4)

knew it was something like that.

proh

-bb14x - G260RC Engine w/Full ESP Porting 4+ HP
-bb32x - ESP Modified & ESP Fully Ported 30.5cc CY31RC Engine 4.5+ HP
-bb35x - CY29RC Headkit Engine w/Clutch 3.75 HP

i have baja 5b

So what of the above engines do you think will be better for top speed? im planning to buy one, but we do not focus on the torque in the uphill racing.

it is right we use puddle tyres for this kind of racing and we need torque. but we do not focus on it, Why? the uphill race is drag uphill and the length is 480meters going up!

the torque is required for the first 50meters only then we need the RPM to reach the maximum speed to the finish line uphill.

what do you think? which one is the best for this kind of racing? and what set up should we put on? e.g. which type of reeds, tuned pipe and silencer, gearing, filter and etc.

I need your ideas, it will really help. Thank you all.

ryan@ddm

For your needs, you want the fully ported G260RC.

proh

Thank you ryan,

but u did not mention what set up should we put on? e.g. which type of reeds, tuned pipe and silencer, gearing, filter and etc. For this kind of racing.

your help is appreciated.

Earth Surfer

Just my opinion above guys.

Yea---A G260 to start. Your hill climbs are drag races that are just up hill. So I would think (I don't know the hill or your car) you would want something that will rev really high, and not waste any time getting there. G260 on reed cases with a stock stroke crank running a compression ratio of 13:1 and a high reving pipe would be my first chioce if your running gas. ESP cylinder reed kits/top end, and complete engines are comeing soon. A good cylinder reed would be my second choice with a stock stroke and G260 cylinder. If you really don't need close to 20,000 RPM, and you would want more grunt off the line after trying it out, you can use a 2mm stroker and a 2mm dome (if you have a TS head kit) or my cheap head mods that I can cut for you. My guess is a G260 or a stroked g260 (G27.2) with a good reed valve would suit your stuff pretty close---as long as you can hook up. The hook up and pipe choices are going to be the challenge for you. If your fab skills in sheet metal are good and you have a way to cut up a pipe, you can get a ADA S1 pipe that is sold to the ped crowd, and bend it so you can use it. There is a pretty easy way to bend a pipe and not change it's tuned length too much. I mention the S1 because I know it makes some of the strongest peak power, and wants to rev pretty high with the right engine. It has probably won more ped races than all of the other pipes. But, that does not mean it will work well for you---unless you can use all the power you can get. A good 26cc reed engine and a good pipe should be really hard to beat in a drag race. 4WD?---it's gonna use the power well. 2WD---it may be a handfull.

If you talk with me and/or DDM, we can build you custom engines also, and try to help you with your choices for your application. If you have gearing options, you may have more engine choices.

proh

thank you Earth Surfer for reply.

You are right. We want something that rev really high. Where the ESP cylinder reed kit/top end and complete engines will be available?

i shall wait for it.