why not just use a 4stroke motor?
05-18-2007, 02:11 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ,,
LA
Posts: 2,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
why not just use a 4stroke motor?
i dont own a 1/5 scale myself but i see alot of vids of people using 2 strokes in there 1/5 scale cars and climbing hills and going in sand dunes..why dont you just use a 4 stroke motor off a weedeater or something.doesnt it make more sence?i mean i could be wrong and everything but i just figure a 4stroke with more torque would be able to climb them hill's better and wouldnt loose any speed...i could be wrong so dont flame me if i am..im just wondering why not use a 4stroke instead of a 2stroke,is there a reason why not or just not worth it?
05-18-2007, 03:56 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami,
FL
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
I think the main reason 2 strokes are used is because of the higher RPMS, I would love the sound of a 4stroke on my FG but I think performance will be diminished and also price of the engine will go up. Yes a 4 stroke has more torque and could be geard up to have the same top speed as the 2stroke but it will have to be a bit bigger than the usual 23cc 26cc engines used in the 1/5th scales. I do know there are some nice looking 4strokes out in the gardening business, it would be nice to se some one use one in one of their projects.
05-18-2007, 10:21 AM
#6
My Feedback: (2)
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
Here is some weights differences.
Zenoah 23cc Total Weight: 2.07kg (4.56lbs)
Honda 35cc Total Weight: 3.46 kg (7.6 lbs)
Consider the gas tank on the Honda.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=ZENE23RC
http://www.honda-engines.com/engines/gx35.htm
Zenoah 23cc Total Weight: 2.07kg (4.56lbs)
Honda 35cc Total Weight: 3.46 kg (7.6 lbs)
Consider the gas tank on the Honda.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=ZENE23RC
http://www.honda-engines.com/engines/gx35.htm
05-18-2007, 12:56 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Santa Fe,,
TX
Posts: 993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
Hi EXTRA, You want a 4 stroke->[link=http://www.conleyprecision.com]Conleyprecision[/link]. But you better have a lot of $$$$! PS: To see full size, just keep left clicking on the Pic. with your mouse!
05-18-2007, 02:18 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ,,
LA
Posts: 2,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
Haha yea iv heard the miniture V8 sound and it sound's awesome but i cant fork out the 8+ grand for one i see here the 2stroke has more RPM But look at Dirtbikes these days 4stroke is now beating the 2stroke's i was told by the local bike dealer around here.and 4stroke would also be easier not always having to mix the gas i know it's not that big of a deal but still that much less to hassel with..That honda motor looks like it would make a mean car engine 
05-18-2007, 02:20 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ,,
LA
Posts: 2,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
but even better heres a 25CC so now its about the same size as the 2stroke no reason why it wouldnt fit i wouldnt think..
http://www.honda-engines.com/engines/gx25.htm
http://www.honda-engines.com/engines/gx25.htm
05-18-2007, 02:45 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mckinney,
TX
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
i am actually using the honda engine for one of my 1/4 scale projects!and it sounds so cool with a custom set of pipes that i have made for it
05-18-2007, 05:22 PM
#12
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Muskegon, MI
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
25cc 4 stroke vs. your average rc 23-27cc two stroke would probobly be no comparison. I am starting to like 4-strokes for various reasons but there is no arguing that a 2 stroke has a power stroke every other stroke and a 4 stroke only makes one every 4th stroke.. Give me a 40cc 4 stroke and ill be happy
05-18-2007, 10:09 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
A high performance 2 stroke will make almost twice the power of the same size high performance four strokes--and there are no small high performance four strokes that we can use to the best of my knowledge. They would be very expensive. Still, if there was a actual small high performance 4 stroke that we can afford, it would have to be almost 50 or 60cc to equal the power we are getting out of the little two strokes.
That 35cc engine probably puts out about 1.5hp--maybe (I just looked it up--it is 1hp). well, the stock G260 over doubles that with a crappy can for a exhaust. You can easily get 5hp with pipe and porting of a Zen G260----your not going to touch that with a small four stroke with any ease, and it would still have to be at least 50cc, which is why the four strokes have not taken over the small engines like they have the larger engines. I would also love to see the valves of a four stroke after it tried to hit 20,000 RPM like the modded Zen engines can hit. I am not sure if even indy cars rev that high. I don't know anything about the indy four stroke engines.
Bottom line, if you want performance in a RC model---the four stroke weed wacker engine will probably be the last choice. I don't know anybody making cams and aftermarket heads for weed wacker four stroke engines because they stilll can't compete with the two strokes of this small size, and it would not sell because of cost at this point in time IMO.
Plus---I hate four strokes. If they were not such whimpy power plants, they would not have to be almost twice the size to keep up with a two stroke--and that is fully tuned with technology and parts that are not available for the inept little four stroke engines.
If you make one---lets line them up.
One more thing about 4 strokes. If we accept them as a whole, the 2 stroke will dissappear just like they did in motocross. Watch for Mike Brown on the only two stroke to make the afternoon races at the nationals this summer---and cheer him on. he will need all the help he can get, because his 125 two stroke is underpowered by the high tech, and very expensive 250cc four strokes they have to race against. You betcha--I believe the FIM in Europe and the AMA ion the states made the size of the four strokes just big enough to out power the two strokes---and we lost our two strokes because everyone wants to do well.
that has to be a sin of some kind.
That 35cc engine probably puts out about 1.5hp--maybe (I just looked it up--it is 1hp). well, the stock G260 over doubles that with a crappy can for a exhaust. You can easily get 5hp with pipe and porting of a Zen G260----your not going to touch that with a small four stroke with any ease, and it would still have to be at least 50cc, which is why the four strokes have not taken over the small engines like they have the larger engines. I would also love to see the valves of a four stroke after it tried to hit 20,000 RPM like the modded Zen engines can hit. I am not sure if even indy cars rev that high. I don't know anything about the indy four stroke engines.
Bottom line, if you want performance in a RC model---the four stroke weed wacker engine will probably be the last choice. I don't know anybody making cams and aftermarket heads for weed wacker four stroke engines because they stilll can't compete with the two strokes of this small size, and it would not sell because of cost at this point in time IMO.
Plus---I hate four strokes. If they were not such whimpy power plants, they would not have to be almost twice the size to keep up with a two stroke--and that is fully tuned with technology and parts that are not available for the inept little four stroke engines.
If you make one---lets line them up.
One more thing about 4 strokes. If we accept them as a whole, the 2 stroke will dissappear just like they did in motocross. Watch for Mike Brown on the only two stroke to make the afternoon races at the nationals this summer---and cheer him on. he will need all the help he can get, because his 125 two stroke is underpowered by the high tech, and very expensive 250cc four strokes they have to race against. You betcha--I believe the FIM in Europe and the AMA ion the states made the size of the four strokes just big enough to out power the two strokes---and we lost our two strokes because everyone wants to do well.
that has to be a sin of some kind.
05-19-2007, 04:20 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
+1 except for the prart about the bikes, people buy 4-stroke bikes because theyre safer because they dont have that powerband.
And 4-strokes in little engines are more complex due to the more valves and stuff like oil sumps etc. plus they have no aftermarket support.
And 4-strokes in little engines are more complex due to the more valves and stuff like oil sumps etc. plus they have no aftermarket support.
ORIGINAL: Earth Surfer
A high performance 2 stroke will make almost twice the power of the same size high performance four strokes--and there are no small high performance four strokes that we can use to the best of my knowledge. They would be very expensive. Still, if there was a actual small high performance 4 stroke that we can afford, it would have to be almost 50 or 60cc to equal the power we are getting out of the little two strokes.
That 35cc engine probably puts out about 1.5hp--maybe (I just looked it up--it is 1hp). well, the stock G260 over doubles that with a crappy can for a exhaust. You can easily get 5hp with pipe and porting of a Zen G260----your not going to touch that with a small four stroke with any ease, and it would still have to be at least 50cc, which is why the four strokes have not taken over the small engines like they have the larger engines. I would also love to see the valves of a four stroke after it tried to hit 20,000 RPM like the modded Zen engines can hit. I am not sure if even indy cars rev that high. I don't know anything about the indy four stroke engines.
Bottom line, if you want performance in a RC model---the four stroke weed wacker engine will probably be the last choice. I don't know anybody making cams and aftermarket heads for weed wacker four stroke engines because they stilll can't compete with the two strokes of this small size, and it would not sell because of cost at this point in time IMO.
Plus---I hate four strokes. If they were not such whimpy power plants, they would not have to be almost twice the size to keep up with a two stroke--and that is fully tuned with technology and parts that are not available for the inept little four stroke engines.
If you make one---lets line them up.
One more thing about 4 strokes. If we accept them as a whole, the 2 stroke will dissappear just like they did in motocross. Watch for Mike Brown on the only two stroke to make the afternoon races at the nationals this summer---and cheer him on. he will need all the help he can get, because his 125 two stroke is underpowered by the high tech, and very expensive 250cc four strokes they have to race against. You betcha--I believe the FIM in Europe and the AMA ion the states made the size of the four strokes just big enough to out power the two strokes---and we lost our two strokes because everyone wants to do well.
that has to be a sin of some kind.
A high performance 2 stroke will make almost twice the power of the same size high performance four strokes--and there are no small high performance four strokes that we can use to the best of my knowledge. They would be very expensive. Still, if there was a actual small high performance 4 stroke that we can afford, it would have to be almost 50 or 60cc to equal the power we are getting out of the little two strokes.
That 35cc engine probably puts out about 1.5hp--maybe (I just looked it up--it is 1hp). well, the stock G260 over doubles that with a crappy can for a exhaust. You can easily get 5hp with pipe and porting of a Zen G260----your not going to touch that with a small four stroke with any ease, and it would still have to be at least 50cc, which is why the four strokes have not taken over the small engines like they have the larger engines. I would also love to see the valves of a four stroke after it tried to hit 20,000 RPM like the modded Zen engines can hit. I am not sure if even indy cars rev that high. I don't know anything about the indy four stroke engines.
Bottom line, if you want performance in a RC model---the four stroke weed wacker engine will probably be the last choice. I don't know anybody making cams and aftermarket heads for weed wacker four stroke engines because they stilll can't compete with the two strokes of this small size, and it would not sell because of cost at this point in time IMO.
Plus---I hate four strokes. If they were not such whimpy power plants, they would not have to be almost twice the size to keep up with a two stroke--and that is fully tuned with technology and parts that are not available for the inept little four stroke engines.
If you make one---lets line them up.
One more thing about 4 strokes. If we accept them as a whole, the 2 stroke will dissappear just like they did in motocross. Watch for Mike Brown on the only two stroke to make the afternoon races at the nationals this summer---and cheer him on. he will need all the help he can get, because his 125 two stroke is underpowered by the high tech, and very expensive 250cc four strokes they have to race against. You betcha--I believe the FIM in Europe and the AMA ion the states made the size of the four strokes just big enough to out power the two strokes---and we lost our two strokes because everyone wants to do well.
that has to be a sin of some kind.
05-19-2007, 03:44 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ,,
LA
Posts: 2,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
i have a suzuki 100 2-stroke...and i went on a trip to some mountains last year and i was riding up the mountain (theres a little road that takes you up it) and it sucked because i was ALWAYS in first gear i would get a little speed and shift to second and it would loose all power it had and come to a stop so i was forced to keep it in first gear my dad beside me with his 4 stroke was having a ball going up it he could shift to second and 3rd with no problem so that's why i like 4stroke.
05-19-2007, 08:21 PM
#18
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
Hey Earth Surfer, I also think that it is a sin to try and eradicate the two-strokes out of motorcross. I think that they might be considering letting 144cc 2-strokes race against 250cc four strokes (its still unfair though). I wish I was alive back in the day when EVERYTHING was powered by a 2-stroke They are lighter, have more power and are alot easier to work on too.
As they say: Screw the wales, save the two strokes!!!
They are lighter, have more power and are alot easier to work on too.As they say: Screw the wales, save the two strokes!!!
05-19-2007, 08:32 PM
#19
Senior Member
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
ORIGINAL: sam123
Hey Earth Surfer, I also think that it is a sin to try and eradicate the two-strokes out of motorcross. I think that they might be considering letting 144cc 2-strokes race against 250cc four strokes (its still unfair though). I wish I was alive back in the day when EVERYTHING was powered by a 2-stroke They are lighter, have more power and are alot easier to work on too.
As they say: Screw the wales, save the two strokes!!!
Hey Earth Surfer, I also think that it is a sin to try and eradicate the two-strokes out of motorcross. I think that they might be considering letting 144cc 2-strokes race against 250cc four strokes (its still unfair though). I wish I was alive back in the day when EVERYTHING was powered by a 2-stroke
They are lighter, have more power and are alot easier to work on too.As they say: Screw the wales, save the two strokes!!!
05-19-2007, 09:46 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: gansevoort,
NY
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
well if what i hear is right, there wont be anymore 2 strokes made in 2008 or whenever. im not sure when but 2 strokes are gunna start getting banned because there a lot dirtier than 4 strokes. im not sure if this is correct, so dont start bashing me. lol.
05-19-2007, 10:11 PM
#21
Senior Member
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
ORIGINAL: Pyrotechnic
well if what i hear is right, there wont be anymore 2 strokes made in 2008 or whenever. im not sure when but 2 strokes are gunna start getting banned because there a lot dirtier than 4 strokes. im not sure if this is correct, so dont start bashing me. lol.
well if what i hear is right, there wont be anymore 2 strokes made in 2008 or whenever. im not sure when but 2 strokes are gunna start getting banned because there a lot dirtier than 4 strokes. im not sure if this is correct, so dont start bashing me. lol.
05-20-2007, 12:54 AM
#22
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
Just to add my 2c in.
I do Motorbike Enduroes (when time permits) having a nice Torquey 4 stroke to power up the mountains / hill and not having to re-fuel every lap is a god send.
I think for the size of a Zenoah 260 2 stroke you wouldn' t be able to get them same power from a 4-stroke, not sure about torque tho.
I do Motorbike Enduroes (when time permits) having a nice Torquey 4 stroke to power up the mountains / hill and not having to re-fuel every lap is a god send.
I think for the size of a Zenoah 260 2 stroke you wouldn' t be able to get them same power from a 4-stroke, not sure about torque tho.
05-20-2007, 02:47 AM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
ORIGINAL: JRexA
500cc 2 stroke MC's Race and Outrace 1000cc 4 stroke MC's........
500cc 2 stroke MC's Race and Outrace 1000cc 4 stroke MC's........
05-20-2007, 07:31 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: gansevoort,
NY
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: why not just use a 4stroke motor?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pyrotechnic
well if what i hear is right, there wont be anymore 2 strokes made in 2008 or whenever. im not sure when but 2 strokes are gunna start getting banned because there a lot dirtier than 4 strokes. im not sure if this is correct, so dont start bashing me. lol.
ORIGINAL: Pyrotechnic
well if what i hear is right, there wont be anymore 2 strokes made in 2008 or whenever. im not sure when but 2 strokes are gunna start getting banned because there a lot dirtier than 4 strokes. im not sure if this is correct, so dont start bashing me. lol.
2 strokes aren't being banned...the motorcycle companies are voluntarily making the 4 strokes because they make better power. 2 strokes are still being made for 2008, it will be around 2010 when they will be gone....Honda is the only company making race worthy 4 stroke bikes for the 85cc class...there are no Manufacturers currently getting rid of ALL the 2 strokes....
yea, i wasnt sure what year it was gunna start, but i knew it was gunna happen sometime in the future. thanks for the correction.