winches
08-07-2003, 07:26 PM
#4
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GM starter motors make better winches than the longshafts. They are a more recent design with better materials. The brushes are easily replaced with no soldering required. They come in a wide range of sizes, and the largest 12-volt GM starter can easily launch a 10 pound plane.
I've built several dozen winches using them, and had no complaints from the buyers.
They must be converted to ball bearings, which isn't very hard to do if you have a small lathe to make the necessary parts.
I've attached a photo of the motor after the conversion. I'll post some photos of the finished winches in my gallery, or you can email me for them.
The shaft on the GM starters is smaller than the longshaft, but it's hardened steel. You can put the drum right on the shaft on the starters for engines up to 350 cubic inches.
For the larger motors, you'll have to put a third bearing on the outer end of the drum or press a piece of 4130 steel tubing onto the existing shaft.
Roger
I've built several dozen winches using them, and had no complaints from the buyers.
They must be converted to ball bearings, which isn't very hard to do if you have a small lathe to make the necessary parts.
I've attached a photo of the motor after the conversion. I'll post some photos of the finished winches in my gallery, or you can email me for them.
The shaft on the GM starters is smaller than the longshaft, but it's hardened steel. You can put the drum right on the shaft on the starters for engines up to 350 cubic inches.
For the larger motors, you'll have to put a third bearing on the outer end of the drum or press a piece of 4130 steel tubing onto the existing shaft.
Roger
08-10-2003, 05:07 PM
#6
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Plans are SO boring. Just go buy a rebuilt starter motor (without the solenoid) for a Chevy 350 engine. The year and model don't matter much, they're all basically the same. It'll cost about $50, maybe less.
PLEASE NOTE: I have no way to know if you're qualified to do any or all of the following work. I take no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of your efforts and/or any injury which may result from your attempting to do this work. If you don't know exactly what you're doing, hire someone who can do it for you safely. Starters motors are very powerful, and serious injury can result from improper modification and use.
Make a stand so you can position the motor with the drive end up.
Remove the two bolts that go through the case and set the motor in the stand. Take the aluminum bell off the drive end. You'll see a small metal ring near the end of the shaft. Slide the ring off and remove the wire clip from the groove in the shaft. Remove the Bendix. You won't need any of these parts, except the two bolts.
The shaft is an odd size, so the bearing ID will have to be a bit larger than the shaft, with an adapter/spacer between the two parts. Get a high quality sealed bearing if you're in a dusty area. Get a shielded bearing if you want less drag on the shaft and you're in a clean area.
Make a support for the bearing. The outside will look like the end of the aluminum piece you just removed, and the inside will fit the bearing OD. You can make it from aluminum or any other suitable metal. I saw one made from a round cast iron weight from the sporting goods department in Walmart. Just remove the plastic and start cutting. I've even made a few from high strength plastic. Be sure nothing on the bearing support will touch the armature windings. The outside should be a close fit in the motor case and the inside should be a slight press fit on the bearing. Leave shoulders on the outer end so the support doesn't slip into the case too far and the bearing won't slide out.
Determine the distance from the armature core to the outer end of the bearing. That will be the length of the shaft adapter/spacer. Get a piece of steel pipe and bore it out so it will be a slip fit on the shaft. The OD of the pipe needs to be a little larger than the bearing ID. Cut a shoulder on the adapter to fit the bearing ID. Press the shaft adapter/spacer onto the small splines on the armature shaft near the core. That 'll lock it permanently in place. You may need to bore out the ID a bit where it fits over the splines, so it won't be so hard to press on.
Drill the cooling holes and the hole for the alignment dowel in the bearing support. Also drill and tap two holes for the bolts that go through the case.
Install the bearing in the support and then on the shaft. The shaft should turn freely with only the drag of the brushes. Be sure nothing else is dragging. You should have several thousandths end play in the shaft.
Turn the motor over with the shaft pointed down. Remove the brush end cap. You'll do the same things on this end, except the bearing will be smaller, there's no dowel pin, and the bolt holes don't need to be tapped.
Be sure you don't drill cooling holes where the pins which hold the brush arms are located. You don't want the pins to be able to fall out.
When you're done, install the two bolts that hold the motor together. You should have a few thousandths end play on the shaft to allow for heat expansion. The motor is now ready for testing.
It's best to use a solenoid and some #4 welding cable for the testing. Put crimp terminals on the ends of the cable to fit the case bolt, the battery, and the solenoid. One of the terminals will have to be modified to fit the strap which comes out the side of the motor case. That's the positive (+) side of the motor. You'll need a very large tool to properly compress the crimp terminals onto the cables. The guys at the electrical supply store may let you use the one they have. I had to buy one on eBay for $60.
Hold the motor case securely when you apply power.
The motor should start and accelerate very quickly. Don't let it run for more than one or two seconds with no load. With ball bearings and no load, these motors will run so fast that they may self-destruct.
See, that wasn't so hard. Now you've got a winch motor with dual ball bearings.
Here's a photo of the other end of the motor.
Roger
PLEASE NOTE: I have no way to know if you're qualified to do any or all of the following work. I take no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of your efforts and/or any injury which may result from your attempting to do this work. If you don't know exactly what you're doing, hire someone who can do it for you safely. Starters motors are very powerful, and serious injury can result from improper modification and use.
Make a stand so you can position the motor with the drive end up.
Remove the two bolts that go through the case and set the motor in the stand. Take the aluminum bell off the drive end. You'll see a small metal ring near the end of the shaft. Slide the ring off and remove the wire clip from the groove in the shaft. Remove the Bendix. You won't need any of these parts, except the two bolts.
The shaft is an odd size, so the bearing ID will have to be a bit larger than the shaft, with an adapter/spacer between the two parts. Get a high quality sealed bearing if you're in a dusty area. Get a shielded bearing if you want less drag on the shaft and you're in a clean area.
Make a support for the bearing. The outside will look like the end of the aluminum piece you just removed, and the inside will fit the bearing OD. You can make it from aluminum or any other suitable metal. I saw one made from a round cast iron weight from the sporting goods department in Walmart. Just remove the plastic and start cutting. I've even made a few from high strength plastic. Be sure nothing on the bearing support will touch the armature windings. The outside should be a close fit in the motor case and the inside should be a slight press fit on the bearing. Leave shoulders on the outer end so the support doesn't slip into the case too far and the bearing won't slide out.
Determine the distance from the armature core to the outer end of the bearing. That will be the length of the shaft adapter/spacer. Get a piece of steel pipe and bore it out so it will be a slip fit on the shaft. The OD of the pipe needs to be a little larger than the bearing ID. Cut a shoulder on the adapter to fit the bearing ID. Press the shaft adapter/spacer onto the small splines on the armature shaft near the core. That 'll lock it permanently in place. You may need to bore out the ID a bit where it fits over the splines, so it won't be so hard to press on.
Drill the cooling holes and the hole for the alignment dowel in the bearing support. Also drill and tap two holes for the bolts that go through the case.
Install the bearing in the support and then on the shaft. The shaft should turn freely with only the drag of the brushes. Be sure nothing else is dragging. You should have several thousandths end play in the shaft.
Turn the motor over with the shaft pointed down. Remove the brush end cap. You'll do the same things on this end, except the bearing will be smaller, there's no dowel pin, and the bolt holes don't need to be tapped.
Be sure you don't drill cooling holes where the pins which hold the brush arms are located. You don't want the pins to be able to fall out.
When you're done, install the two bolts that hold the motor together. You should have a few thousandths end play on the shaft to allow for heat expansion. The motor is now ready for testing.
It's best to use a solenoid and some #4 welding cable for the testing. Put crimp terminals on the ends of the cable to fit the case bolt, the battery, and the solenoid. One of the terminals will have to be modified to fit the strap which comes out the side of the motor case. That's the positive (+) side of the motor. You'll need a very large tool to properly compress the crimp terminals onto the cables. The guys at the electrical supply store may let you use the one they have. I had to buy one on eBay for $60.
Hold the motor case securely when you apply power.
The motor should start and accelerate very quickly. Don't let it run for more than one or two seconds with no load. With ball bearings and no load, these motors will run so fast that they may self-destruct.
See, that wasn't so hard. Now you've got a winch motor with dual ball bearings.
Here's a photo of the other end of the motor.
Roger
08-11-2003, 04:57 PM
#7
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Looks like Roger is having a lot of fun playing with winches - it's a wonderful thing and I do appreciate what he is doing. A good tinker is something everyone needs.
However, I like to fly, and the winch is just a piece of stuff I have to lug around and maintain in order to do so. I want mine to act right with the minimum investment of time and money.
That is why I like the good old Ford Long Shaft and my McCann winch kit winch. It's simple, easy, comparatively cheap, and pretty much bullet proof. It doesn't do anything fancy, you have to learn to use that foot pedal thingy to modulate the tension.
It's also mostly standard. What's standard really mean? It means that when I set up my plane for the optimal launch with my winch it will still be pretty close when I go off to contests all over the US. The Ford motor is the standard everywhere you go in the US. I have been flying TD contests for a long time and I can only remember once when we did not use the Ford Long Shaft motor. That was 31 or 32 years ago, before everybody settled on the standard motor.
happy trails - Rob G
However, I like to fly, and the winch is just a piece of stuff I have to lug around and maintain in order to do so. I want mine to act right with the minimum investment of time and money.
That is why I like the good old Ford Long Shaft and my McCann winch kit winch. It's simple, easy, comparatively cheap, and pretty much bullet proof. It doesn't do anything fancy, you have to learn to use that foot pedal thingy to modulate the tension.
It's also mostly standard. What's standard really mean? It means that when I set up my plane for the optimal launch with my winch it will still be pretty close when I go off to contests all over the US. The Ford motor is the standard everywhere you go in the US. I have been flying TD contests for a long time and I can only remember once when we did not use the Ford Long Shaft motor. That was 31 or 32 years ago, before everybody settled on the standard motor.
happy trails - Rob G
08-26-2003, 11:11 PM
#10
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winches
The Ford longshaft comes in 6v and 12v versions. I have used both. I have also tried the 6v longshaft with a 6v battery (and solenoids). The 6v/6v configuration would haul up a 50 oz 3m poly sailplane but just barely. The 12v/12v setup is stronger and is what Tim McCann reccomends for sport flying. I like the 6v starter with a 12v battery. It pulls up 3m composite planes with authority and with care can pulse up a Gentle Lady. The 6v starter with 12v battery is what is used by clubs everywhere and the motors stand up surprisingly well to what seems like pretty bad abuse.
09-08-2003, 04:42 PM
#11
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RE: winches
I just finished 2 Delco starters. I have the retriever finished. The winch is just started. I only put ball bearing on the load end and left the brush end plain. Roger I may have to build that resister for the retriever. I have not actually used it yet but I retrieved a 20 oz plastic bottle full of water about 900 feet in about 10 seconds. That seems way too fast. I used a belt drive(1.8 inch pulley on starter and 14 inch on the reel). I hope to finish the winch in a couple of weeks. I will post pics and results then.
09-09-2003, 12:25 AM
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RE: winches (This is only a edit test)
(Edited original response due to a bad link)
A winch that I have built over the winter around a 12 V Ford Long Shaft starter unit.
Winch construction:
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/boucherj/winch.htm
Reg
A winch that I have built over the winter around a 12 V Ford Long Shaft starter unit.
Winch construction:
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/boucherj/winch.htm
Reg
