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what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

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what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

Old 11-06-2012, 04:52 PM
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Default what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

hey gang, i'v built many kits,sig hog bipe,gp extra 300s,many 35" ws kits by sig herr .i am building the bot and am up to cutting the slot for the vertical fin to allow the elevator to move up and down. positioning the tail and checking the throw on up and down....it seems the down elevator position is very slight compared to the up elevator movement.drawings and instructions arn't clear of what the elevator should look like in nuetral,so if the photos i'v taken and using a straight edge on the bottom of the fuse are correct ...i'll proceed with the final steps. picture 1 is neutral,picture 2 shows the elevator in it's full down position which is as far as it will go,and picture3 is the full up. instructions say to use 1/2"throws. picture 4 shows the space in the slot of the vertical fin has very little room[approx 1/2inch] for the down position compared to the space for up elevator/. any suggestions will be very helpful as i'v neveer built a plane that the whole horizontial section moved like this. i would hate to launch and need to use down trimm to attain level flight and not have more down to get a landing....lol. thanks gang,stu
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

Never built one, but I've got the ARF in a box in the shop. Be right back...

OK, the instructions show equal up and down movement thus:

High rate throw: 9/16" 15mm
Low rate throw: 3/8" 10mm
Old 11-07-2012, 05:43 AM
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Default RE: what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

The BoT has a HUGE amount of lift - especially when launching (I use a HDhigh-start). When I built my BoT I had the same issue that you do - didn't look like the elevator moved enough. So, I increased the slot for "down" to as much as servo-throw would allow (about 3/4") and have always been glad that I did. That extra little bit helps on launch, but only on launch.

My biggest issue with her was balance - the GP kit is horribly tail-heavy, seemingly no matter how much you sand it, and I had to add a lot of weight to the nose. Also, she was my first bird with spoilers (very VERY necessary) and I made mine too large - 5 bays wide and 1.5" thick. I've since found out that 3 bays is just about right (works well on almost every other BoT I've seen fly). On my website, at www.wanderings-ds.com/whs/52-bot-1.html the top center pic shows mine. If I were to build another, I'd NOT use the inner 3 bays on the wing, just the outer 3 bays, and I think 1" wide is more than enough. As it is, mine are 1.5" and I don't deploy them much more than about 1/3 open. Otherwise, she goes into a rather steep dive (WAYtoo much spoiler). One of my photos shows how little mine are deployed on most landings - www.wanderings-ds.com/images/52images/bird-of-time/100_0426.jpg

She's a great bird to fly - you'll enjoy her a lot. Only "flying" tip I'd give is to watch the turns - she doesn't turn very sharp (lotta wing for the little rudder to move around), and she's kinda slow on rudder response time - starts into them slower than I'd think is "proper". Once you've flown her a few times you learn how she'll maneuver.

Enjoy yours!!!

Dave
Old 11-07-2012, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

thanks for the input guys. dave,i to would consider increasing the slot but it seems so close to the edge already. what does occure to me now but to late to change would be to redrill the rear pivot hole a little lower. i don't want to change the design as the stabalizer and wingalignement thatmust be set for optimum performance.

i spent some time studying the pictures i took and hope to attain some more down elevator with a little triming. the slot in the vertical fin i need to cut is done at the very top of the cutout,this is shown on the drawing.so i figure there really isn't that much movement needed. i most deffinantly will be putting spoilers in the wing and i am very glad you stated the 1" x3 bays as being enough to assit in bring the bot in for a landing. i have the wings built and am going with the 2 pc designe.....now i'm wishing i hadn't used the metal joining rod that has a little play. i may try several coats of paint to snug its fit.

dave ,do you use any bands to hold your wing halves together other than the ones holding down to the fuse. i read some folk use a screw on each half on the underside thats hidden in the fuse and join them together with "o" rings like used on prop savers. seems like a great and easy way to go.

must say though, i was hoping more builders of the bot would share their experience setting trims for the bot in flight....do you set the elevator to be horizontial with the bottom of the fuse or is it set differently for getting level flight.[example:it has up elevator dialed in for level flight]any further discription of how it shoul look will be helpful, thanks gang,stu
Old 11-08-2012, 02:44 AM
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Default RE: what is the correct setting for the bot tail.

I flew the bird of time quite extensively when i flew in hawaii and what i found most helpful was to use an incidence meter.. the wing is at +2 degrees ..so at normal flight the elev will be neg 1 degree or so when set at zero..i put mine at zero then trimmed to taste after test flights..that is at +2 on wing elev at 0, fuse datum line at zero as well..I hope that makes sense.. skylark-flier is correct about response of rud and the spoilers..i made the rud go as much as possible.for turns..a friend had one and programed elev to spoiler so when spoiler deployed , elev kicked in as when doing flaps...same smell...actually i have to pick mine up at hs ..its the 118 " kit that I'll convert to electric..also don't forget to make elev as tight as possible cause its only the wire holding it together...hope this helps..the more throw the better....



SLOPE FAST - SOAR DEEP

guamflyer
Old 11-12-2012, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: what is the correct setting for the bot tail.


ORIGINAL: tobydogs

thanks for the input guys. dave,i to would consider increasing the slot but it seems so close to the edge already. what does occure to me now but to late to change would be to redrill the rear pivot hole a little lower. i don't want to change the design as the stabalizer and wingalignement thatmust be set for optimum performance.

i spent some time studying the pictures i took and hope to attain some more down elevator with a little triming. the slot in the vertical fin i need to cut is done at the very top of the cutout,this is shown on the drawing.so i figure there really isn't that much movement needed. i most deffinantly will be putting spoilers in the wing and i am very glad you stated the 1" x3 bays as being enough to assit in bring the bot in for a landing. i have the wings built and am going with the 2 pc designe.....now i'm wishing i hadn't used the metal joining rod that has a little play. i may try several coats of paint to snug its fit.

dave ,do you use any bands to hold your wing halves together other than the ones holding down to the fuse. i read some folk use a screw on each half on the underside thats hidden in the fuse and join them together with "o" rings like used on prop savers. seems like a great and easy way to go.

must say though, i was hoping more builders of the bot would share their experience setting trims for the bot in flight....do you set the elevator to be horizontial with the bottom of the fuse or is it set differently for getting level flight.[example:it has up elevator dialed in for level flight]any further discription of how it shoul look will be helpful, thanks gang,stu
<![if gte mso 9]><xml><officedocumentsettings><o:allowpng></o:allowpng></officedocumentsettings></xml><![endif]><p class="MsoNormal">Hey Stu!<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Yeah, the slot&rsquo;s close but not to worry.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>When I did my throw increase I simply cut out what I needed (which DID cut the LE almost in half) and then used CA on the LE, inside and outside, to re-strengthen it.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Worked like a charm, no weakness anywhere.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I had considered exactly what you said, re-drill the holes and move the whole thing back a bit, but decided to try it first with the stock settings.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Glad I did.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The structure of the whole vertical fin helps a lot in this regard &ndash; being solid sheeted.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The sheeting actually gives the fin much of its strength, and you&rsquo;re only cutting a tiny bit out of the sheeting comparatively.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>CA&rsquo;ing the LE pretty much puts everything back to the strength it originally had.</p><p class="MsoNormal">BTW, sorry this is so late (my reply).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I&rsquo;d typed the whole thing out, TWICE, and hit the wrong button, TWICE, erasing everything.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Had to sit back for a couple days until I cooled down a bit from my own stupidity.</p><p class="MsoNormal">TRIM &ndash; actually, there&rsquo;s not a whole lot to trim on this bird.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I found that I DO push the trim forward from &ldquo;flying center&rdquo; for launch, and it helps further, but once you&rsquo;ve got the bird trimmed to &lsquo;flying center&rsquo;, you&rsquo;ll use the trims very little.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>During normal flight I hardly have to touch the elevator controls to get a large amount of up/down response on the plane.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>That&rsquo;s pretty much a normal thing with full-flying control surfaces &ndash; very high efficiency with little input.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I once had (and still wish I had) an Airtronics Aquila that had full flying tail, rudder and elevator.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The 100&rdquo; wing on that critter was fabulous, the full-flying tail even better.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>She could literally turn on her wingtip and 15&rsquo; loops were quite normal.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>My BoT can do roughly 25&rsquo; loops, but the wing bends a bit much on the tighter maneuvers like that &ndash; makes me distinctly &ldquo;jittery&rdquo; watching the flex.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Ah, yes &ndash; the spoilers.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Just be sure to use the outside 3 bays.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Mine are on the inside bays and it interferes with the elevators if I extend them too far.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Doesn&rsquo;t happen with the outside 3 bays.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Have heard that from several other BoT fliers, as well as others who fly other planes with spoilers.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Hadn&rsquo;t thought about it when I built my bird.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Wish I had though.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Not sure what you&rsquo;re talking about with the wing 2-piece design.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If you&rsquo;re referring to the ARF&rsquo;s version with the solid (1 piece) center and the outer tips being plugged-in, you definitely wouldn&rsquo;t want to do that.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The added weight, especially being so far out on the wing, would make her rather hard to maneuver due to momentum factors.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>She&rsquo;s hard enough to turn as it is.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Not to worry about the &ldquo;play&rdquo; on the steel rods, either main wing or tail &ndash; never really becomes much of a factor in anything.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>After a rather short time, the rods get a slight layer of rust on them (you can hardly see it but it&rsquo;s there) and that provides great holding ability.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>My own bird has a tendency to loosen the left side of the elevator during a whole days flying but it&rsquo;s never been more than about a &frac14;&rdquo; slip and all I ever have to do is push them back together a bit.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>That&rsquo;s after flying ALL DAY!!</p><p class="MsoNormal">Nope, no bands on my bird.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I use 4 nylon bolts (2 in each wing), always have for my gliders.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Doesn&rsquo;t take much to do it, just a piece of ply epoxied inside the wing (front and rear) for the bolts to go through does it nicey.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Got a decent pic of the set-up at http://www.wanderings-ds.com/images/...e/100_0382.jpg - - front bolts are actually inside the wing, rears are flush with the surface.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>In the pic they&rsquo;re still white but I&rsquo;ve since painted them to match the wing.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Your idea of the &ldquo;O&rdquo; rings is a good one.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If you finally decide to go with bands, that would be the only way to go.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>My own Butterfly is held on with bands and I use a hook &amp; screw to hold them together &ndash; very similar to your &ldquo;O&rdquo; rings.</p><p class="MsoNormal">There are several BoT threads on RCU that you might take a look-see at.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>One of the better ones is the &ldquo;Big Wing Buildalong&rdquo; at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93...tm.htm#9347511 - - the guys there gave me a lot of help when I built my BoT.</p><p class="MsoNormal">For initial flight testing, I&rsquo;d just dial in the center of the original slot for the elevator.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>That&rsquo;s awful close to where she should be for flight.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I know my own BoT stays there about 95% of the time.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Guamflyer is 100% correct on his numbers.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Rudder MUST be set for max deflection.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>You&rsquo;re gonna need it.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I&rsquo;d be interested in seeing the set-up for the rudder/spoilers too &ndash; sounds very interesting.</p><p class="MsoNormal">One other item, and probably most critical with the BoT is balance.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Make sure you&rsquo;re not tail-heavy. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"></span>My own BoT is the GP kit and no matter how much I sanded I ended up tail-heavy.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Had to eventually add 6 oz to the nose &ndash; <u>ABOVE AND BEYOND</u> what was already there when I built her.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>That was in the form of 12 bullet weights under the battery pack, epoxied into the bottom after I hollowed it out from the outside.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If I ever build another, I plan to add to the length of the nose to help compensate for that little item &ndash; probably about 2&rdquo; or so.</p><p class="MsoNormal">One more item, and I&rsquo;m the only person I know that&rsquo;s ever done it &ndash; a bit of a &ldquo;chin&rdquo; under the nose.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The tow hook sticks out the bottom a fair amount and I&rsquo;ve got the darnest luck at breaking them when landing.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Seems that if there&rsquo;s a rock anywhere in a field, I&rsquo;m going to find it.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>While building my bird, I added a bit of a chin under her nose and increased the length of her tail-skid (actually doubled it) to get her hook clear of the ground.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Seems to have worked, as I haven&rsquo;t broken a hook yet. Pics of the chin are at http://www.wanderings-ds.com/images/...e/100_0426.jpg and http://www.wanderings-ds.com/images/.../100_0401a.jpg</p><p class="MsoNormal">Hook placement: I may be unique in this item, but I found that the stock hook set-up (location) just doesn&rsquo;t do for my bird.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If I use the front hole I have to &ldquo;horse&rdquo; her up.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Second hole puts her into a vertical climb so steep she actually comes off the hook.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I added a hole between them and it seems to be just fine that way.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Like I said, I may be the only one around with this issue.</p><p class="MsoNormal">She&rsquo;s a good bird, great soarer, quite majestic in the air.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>You&rsquo;re gonna enjoy her a lot.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Just be sure to keep us up-to-date.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Dave</p>

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