jerry dotson

I have built a winch and a retriever setup. It is working but I have lots of pop-offs. What is the correct distance from the pull ring to the retriever attach point? Also the line twists when it is retrieved. I have a swivel on the retriever line. Do I need more? I am flying a Sig Riser "100".
I have been flying with a Hi-Start for 3 or 4 years. Love the winch if I can get the bugs out. My problem is it is 50 miles to anyone that seriously flies gliders so I don't get much advice. I am full of questions... when I quit to put the winch up I can never wind up the line without backlashing the winch drum.[&o] BTW I used Delco starters not those antique Ford starters. They are a lot harder to convert to ball bearings than Ford long shaft.

aeajr

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Here are a couple of thougts.

You say you are having pop-off issues. I presume you did not have this on the hi-starts. What are the specs for the hi-start you have been using?

Where are you popping off? First 30 feet? Half way up?

Lots of things cause pop-offs. Check the tow hook first to make sure it is tight and that it has not been bent open, even a little bit.

Pop-offs may be due to a faster launch off the winch. Are you flooring the pedal, or are you tapping it? Most of the flights at our field off the winch are done with a tapping motion on the pedal/button, even for the three meter contest ships. Only a few of the planes are strong enough to take a full pedal launch and you want to reel in a little line as possible.

The point is that you may be accelorating much faster off the winch than you did off the hi-start. As a result, more lift, and a faster rotation of the plane such that it just rotates off the hook.

Be careful of your wings. I don't know your plane. My Spirit, for example would have the wings ripped off by a full pedal launch.


Here are some things to try in the order I would try them., if this is in fact the issue.


Make sure you have not bent the hook down which will allow the ring to slip off more easily.

Moderate the pedal. Don't floor it! Steady tap tap tap.

If you have a more forward hook position, use it until you get used to the winch

If you have flaps on, during launch, take them out.

Try dialing in a little down elevator on launch to reduce the rate of rotation

If you launch flat out normally, try launching with more up angle to minimize the amount and thus the rate of rotation of the plane. It may be rotating so fast it is just spinning off the hook.

Let us know how it goes.

jerry dotson

Thanks for the reply aeajr. I had a great time this afternoon. I tied the retriever on about 30 feet from the tow ring and got perfect launches every time!! But the winch line wrapped around itself bad. I am going to buy some more swivels and try that. I am using the Dynaflite Heavy-duty Hi-Start. I am thrilled with the winch. It took the glider up nearly twice as high as the Hi-start does. I got 7 to 9 minutes with the temp in the middle 50's. Another thing that happened my winch line tangled at the turnaround and broke it 2 times. I am on a steep learning curve here. The winch launched so high I will never be content to use the Hi-start anymore.

R. Carver

Mid-50s? You must be in North Florida

You should have 2 rings on the tow line. One at the end(ring 1, the tow ring) and one about 6 feet from the end(ring 2). The line between those rings should be fed through a smaller ring on the end of the retrieve line. Put a swivel between this ring and the retrieve line. When you launch, the retrive line should slide down to ring 2 on the launch line, and when you retrieve it should slide to the end of the line and catch the tow ring.
I'd replace the towhook too, if it's the stock one. I've had spaghetti that was stiffer than that thing

jerry dotson

Thanks R. Carver. Does the retriever line slide back and forth between the 2 rings on the winch line? That will probably help with the twisting problem. I had an observer watch and the retriever was making it pop off. I had fastened the retriever line about 2 feet from the tow ring. My line does not flow off the retriever as smooth as I would like but when I moved it farther from the ring it quit popping off. I live near Pensacola. I wish I lived near someone who winch launched so I could learn from them. I saw winch launches at a contest this past July so that is all the winch experiance I have! If I can figure out how the line is getting fouled on the turnaround and stop breaking my tow line...... need an observer there. Thanks for the help. Come fly with me. The field in the background of my avitar is my flying field and home.

R. Carver

Hi Jerry,
Yep, it should slide between the two rings. Forgot to mention, the retrieve line should pass through a hoop staked into the ground about 15-20 feet in front of the retriever. If not, that could account for it not spooling off smoothly, which could pull the line off the plane. Usually what we do with ours before use is tap the winch to pull the retrieve line out, and then pull the winch line back with the retriever. Do this a couple of times and it should spool off nice. As far as fouling on the turnaround, do you have the winch line fed from under the pulley and exiting the top?
Looks like a nice field ya got there! I don't make it up to Pensacola very often (never, actually) but there is an FSS contest held in Tallahassee at least once a year that I usually attend. They have a buch of good guys there that put on a good contest, lots of fun. As soon as they post dates for 2004 I'll let ya know, maybe you could join us.

Jack Hyde

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I have been flying at home with my winch for 4 years. I don't have a retriever. When I was flying at a small club we used a retriever for several months until we decided it was more trouble than it was worth. I have been to big clubs that use retrievers very effectively. They are necessary when you have contests with a gang of fliers all wanting to launch at about the same time. If you fly alone the walk to get the tow line is about 300' each way per flight. Maybe a mile of walking that takes all of 20 minutes for a typical flying day. Unless you are disabled the walking is a good thing. Four of us fly at my place sometimes and the winch without retriever works fine for us.

Does anyone out there set up a retriever when flying alone?

Regarding backlash when rolling up the line at the end of the day -- you need to use a gloved hand to keep a little tension on the line as you load it on the winch just before taking the winch down for the day. Also are you using braided line? Twisted line creates problems.

rogerflies

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I made a water-cooled resistor to go between the solenoids and the winch motor so it wouldn't be so hard to wind the line up. I've attached a photo and sketch. The sketch suggests a water bottle, but a Gator Ade bottle is a better chice since it's got a bigger mouth.

Just be sure to keep the small wire and the butt splices covered with water. Otherwise, they will get hot enough to burn the insulation in short order.

You can't put the resistor between the battery and the solenoids. The voltage drop will cause the solenoids to just chatter. But, it will work if you disconnect the power wire for the footswitch from the winch, and hook it up to the battery itself. That way you'll have full power to the solenoids and reduced power to the winch motor.

Roger

rogerflies

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I'm glad to see someone else has decided the use the Chevy starter motors on a winch. They are a little harder to convert to ball bearings, but well worth the effort. I've built a couple dozen sport winches and a big clutch-winch using the Chevy motors.

The Chevy motors have better materials, a lighter armature, and the brushes are much easier to replace.

Here's the last sport winch I built. It's got dual ball bearings and a flat belt brake.

Roger

jw637362

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@rogerflies, Hello, I have been trying to find a good winch that won't cost me an arm and a leg, I have looked at plans but do not have the ability to weld frames etc.. Do you build winches to sell, if so what are your price ranges, I fly 100" - 140" balsa framing. Had a guy run me up with a winch at a feild one day and loved it. The Hi start just does'nt compare. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

aeajr

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I have seen a number of winchs go on E-bay. Last one went for $165.

jw637362

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Thanks aeajr, I never thought of looking there!

aeajr

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I have been working e-bay for the last 10 months picking up new and used RC plane stuff. Some really good deals and some just good. I think in that time I have seen about 12 hi-starts and 4 winches sold. I bought one of the hi-starts myself. Great package I got.

Have had very little in problems. Most people are very reputable, but you must keep your eyes open and be sure to ask the seller questions.