thermal sniffer
07-30-2002, 01:56 AM
#26
thermal sniffer
Ben ,I see that we are thinking among the same lines !
Ar first, I was about to go with the Skymelody, because of the TEK, since supposedly the picolario would not be available with the TEK, but I really tend more towards the picolario because of the altitude and battery voltage readout.
Skymelody also has a voice module in the works, which will give readouts of altitude, time, battery voltage and temperature ( and maybe even stock market quotations
), but at the moment there is no firm date yet for availability, and it will be 150.- Euro extra !
So I'll probably go with the picolario and TEK.
Michael
Ar first, I was about to go with the Skymelody, because of the TEK, since supposedly the picolario would not be available with the TEK, but I really tend more towards the picolario because of the altitude and battery voltage readout.
Skymelody also has a voice module in the works, which will give readouts of altitude, time, battery voltage and temperature ( and maybe even stock market quotations
), but at the moment there is no firm date yet for availability, and it will be 150.- Euro extra !So I'll probably go with the picolario and TEK.
Michael
07-30-2002, 05:24 PM
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Hello,
I am just working on the new Vario pages. For further information you can find the english instructions under http://www.thommys.com/picoeng.pdf
If there are still any questions just send me an email to [email protected].
There is also two set for energy compensation available, one for T-Tail and with a different nozzle for V-Tail.
Thommy
I am just working on the new Vario pages. For further information you can find the english instructions under http://www.thommys.com/picoeng.pdf
If there are still any questions just send me an email to [email protected].
There is also two set for energy compensation available, one for T-Tail and with a different nozzle for V-Tail.
Thommy
08-09-2002, 02:11 AM
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thermal sniffer
i have a thermal sniffer built by Walt Good and Don Clark. I have been using it for over 20 years and still works great. To bad someone doesn't upgrade. BTW I paid $75 for mine.
08-10-2002, 02:30 AM
#29
Vario
Well, after much looking around and soulsearching, I went with the Skymelody after all, because I figured that the altitude readout is not so important after all, and because it was available here in the US from XCsoaring.com .
Had my first flight with it today, first without the TEK system, later with it.
The TEK system really makes a difference, the signals you get are not as hectic as when you fly without it, because not every elevator control input is reported as sink/lift.
It really only signals lift, when there is.
Today we had a beautiful day here in Cincinnati, blue skies, and not a single cloud, slight breeze from the west.
In this conditions I think a vario is especially helpful, since there were none of the normal indicators of lift (clouds, shifts in wind direction, etc.)
And with the vario, I managed to find the lift, and more importantly, stay in it !
Michael
Had my first flight with it today, first without the TEK system, later with it.
The TEK system really makes a difference, the signals you get are not as hectic as when you fly without it, because not every elevator control input is reported as sink/lift.
It really only signals lift, when there is.
Today we had a beautiful day here in Cincinnati, blue skies, and not a single cloud, slight breeze from the west.
In this conditions I think a vario is especially helpful, since there were none of the normal indicators of lift (clouds, shifts in wind direction, etc.)
And with the vario, I managed to find the lift, and more importantly, stay in it !
Michael
10-15-2002, 10:37 AM
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Re: Vario
Originally posted by MTT
Well, after much looking around and soulsearching, I went with the Skymelody after all, because I figured that the altitude readout is not so important after all,
Well, after much looking around and soulsearching, I went with the Skymelody after all, because I figured that the altitude readout is not so important after all,
just a thought that I had reading your posting.
oh there is another thought iI just had,
why does our competitor is trying so hard ( for years) to get an altitude anouncement working, if it is not so important
regards
Thommy
10-15-2002, 12:41 PM
#31
thermal sniffer
@Thommys :
It's called an "educated guess" !
And no, so far I haven't missed the altitude reporting feature !
Would it be nice to have ? Sure !
Is it necessary ? No !
And Thommy, if you are going to quote me, please quote me completely :
Same goes for you and the TEK !
Michael
I wonder, how anyone can figure out, how important something is, when he had never tested it.
And no, so far I haven't missed the altitude reporting feature !
Would it be nice to have ? Sure !
Is it necessary ? No !
And Thommy, if you are going to quote me, please quote me completely :
Well, after much looking around and soulsearching, I went with the Skymelody after all, because I figured that the altitude readout is not so important after all, and because it was available here in the US from XCsoaring.com .
why does our competitor is trying so hard ( for years) to get an altitude anouncement working, if it is not so important
Michael
10-15-2002, 03:01 PM
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thermal sniffer
Dear Michael,
The question necessary or not is the same with TEK, and you can believe me, if you ask people that have tested both TEK and Altimeter, to decide which one they can keep more than 90 % will choose altimeter.
I do not think that the incomplete quote changed anything in the point I want to show
you are also following the discussion about self-made TEK-Nozzle in the German http://www.rc-network.de/cgi-bin/ubb...;f=28;t=000026
so I think you should agree making a working nozzle is one thing and developing hard and software for an altimeter is another.
And getting it so small and smart like a Picolario is another long way to go.
Thommy
Originally posted by MTT
@Thommys :
Would it be nice to have ? Sure !
Is it necessary ? No !
@Thommys :
Would it be nice to have ? Sure !
Is it necessary ? No !
The question necessary or not is the same with TEK, and you can believe me, if you ask people that have tested both TEK and Altimeter, to decide which one they can keep more than 90 % will choose altimeter.
And Thommy, if you are going to quote me, please quote me completely
you are also following the discussion about self-made TEK-Nozzle in the German http://www.rc-network.de/cgi-bin/ubb...;f=28;t=000026
so I think you should agree making a working nozzle is one thing and developing hard and software for an altimeter is another.
And getting it so small and smart like a Picolario is another long way to go.
Thommy
10-15-2002, 03:51 PM
#33
thermal sniffer
Thommy, be that as it may, I was a bit disturbed at the way you quoted me.
Yes, I made my decision about not going for the vario with the altitude readout, based on an assumption of my part, that the readout would not be so important to me after all.
So far, I have not missed it, even though I have no way to compare, since I never have flown with the picolario.
Maybe I am wrong with this, but for the flying I do (flatland thermal flying), to me, it really doesn't matter how high my airplane is.
I admit, that may be different on the slope, on those occasions when you can't make it back to your normal landing field.
In the case that you have to land at the bottom of the slope, and know the difference in altitude, the altitude readout surely is a big help.
But the important part of my statement was the one about the Skymelody's availabiltity here in the US.
I agree, I'm sure each one has its own specific set of problems.
No doubt about that !
But if you follow my posts, you will find that I never said anything against the picolario, the only reason I went with the Skymelody was the above mentioned.
Michael
Yes, I made my decision about not going for the vario with the altitude readout, based on an assumption of my part, that the readout would not be so important to me after all.
So far, I have not missed it, even though I have no way to compare, since I never have flown with the picolario.
Maybe I am wrong with this, but for the flying I do (flatland thermal flying), to me, it really doesn't matter how high my airplane is.
I admit, that may be different on the slope, on those occasions when you can't make it back to your normal landing field.
In the case that you have to land at the bottom of the slope, and know the difference in altitude, the altitude readout surely is a big help.
But the important part of my statement was the one about the Skymelody's availabiltity here in the US.
so I think you should agree making a working nozzle is one thing and developing hard and software for an altimeter is another.
And getting it so small and smart like a Picolario is another long way to go.
But if you follow my posts, you will find that I never said anything against the picolario, the only reason I went with the Skymelody was the above mentioned.
Michael
10-15-2002, 06:43 PM
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thermal sniffer
Michael,
sorry that the way I quoted disturbed you.
There was no bad intention in doing so.
Thinking about this discussion I made some decisions.
I had translated the German page of the picolario into english, there might be some faults but I think, it is helpful to understand what we are talking about.
it can be found under www.picolario.com
I have also included a mp3 with an anouncement
Just let me know how you like the page and how i can improve it.
I also decided to meke the picolario easier to access from USA, so you can find there a special offer including Fedex shipping, this will take 2 workdays so I think it will take
3 or 4 days in total to have it at home in the US.
I do not know whether you have read the Picolario page concerning the altimeter, now it exists in german as well as in english, but there are big differences even if you are just doing flatland thermal flying.
I am sure if you have tested your variometer in weak conditions (that's what they are made for ) for a longer time, you will undestand what I mean.
The point that is important is not how high you are, interesting is the change haw many meters have you won or lost in the last minutes.
I think dooing cross country it is important knowing how high you are, cause with this info you know how long it takes til you have to land if there is no thermal.
The decision to stay or go is much easier.
Thanks for the discussion
Thommy
sorry that the way I quoted disturbed you.
There was no bad intention in doing so.
Thinking about this discussion I made some decisions.
I had translated the German page of the picolario into english, there might be some faults but I think, it is helpful to understand what we are talking about.
it can be found under www.picolario.com
I have also included a mp3 with an anouncement
Just let me know how you like the page and how i can improve it.
I also decided to meke the picolario easier to access from USA, so you can find there a special offer including Fedex shipping, this will take 2 workdays so I think it will take
3 or 4 days in total to have it at home in the US.
I do not know whether you have read the Picolario page concerning the altimeter, now it exists in german as well as in english, but there are big differences even if you are just doing flatland thermal flying.
I am sure if you have tested your variometer in weak conditions (that's what they are made for ) for a longer time, you will undestand what I mean.
The point that is important is not how high you are, interesting is the change haw many meters have you won or lost in the last minutes.
I think dooing cross country it is important knowing how high you are, cause with this info you know how long it takes til you have to land if there is no thermal.
The decision to stay or go is much easier.
Thanks for the discussion
Thommy
10-23-2002, 11:56 PM
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Thermal sniffer
Hi guys-- Back to the thermal sniffer. I believe you are talking about a device we used in hang-gliding. It helped you find (snif) thermals by detecting extremely small temperature changes as you flew close to a thermal-- as opossed to air pressure differences when you are climbing in a thermal. Some would swear by it- although it may just let you know you were close to a thermal you still couldn"t find!!
10-24-2002, 02:51 PM
#36
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Re: Thermal sniffer
Originally posted by flightfreak
Hi guys-- Back to the thermal sniffer. I believe you are talking about a device we used in hang-gliding. It helped you find (snif) thermals by detecting extremely small temperature changes as you flew close to a thermal-- as opossed to air pressure differences when you are climbing in a thermal. Some would swear by it- although it may just let you know you were close to a thermal you still couldn"t find!!
Hi guys-- Back to the thermal sniffer. I believe you are talking about a device we used in hang-gliding. It helped you find (snif) thermals by detecting extremely small temperature changes as you flew close to a thermal-- as opossed to air pressure differences when you are climbing in a thermal. Some would swear by it- although it may just let you know you were close to a thermal you still couldn"t find!!
Such an annoyance... it lasted 2 flight days before I launched it by hand off the launch ramp. Worst $100+ I ever spent.
These thermal sniffers that are being talked about don't measure the temperature but rather are tonal variometers. Just like the modern ones used today on your hangglider.
10-24-2002, 09:05 PM
#37
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Re: Thermal sniffer
Originally posted by flightfreak
Hi guys-- Back to the thermal sniffer. I believe you are talking about a device we used in hang-gliding. It helped you find (snif) thermals by detecting extremely small temperature changes as you flew close to a thermal-- as opossed to air pressure differences when you are climbing in a thermal. Some would swear by it- although it may just let you know you were close to a thermal you still couldn"t find!!
Hi guys-- Back to the thermal sniffer. I believe you are talking about a device we used in hang-gliding. It helped you find (snif) thermals by detecting extremely small temperature changes as you flew close to a thermal-- as opossed to air pressure differences when you are climbing in a thermal. Some would swear by it- although it may just let you know you were close to a thermal you still couldn"t find!!
10-25-2002, 01:11 AM
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thermal sniffer
Originally posted by MTT
Yes, I made my decision about not going for the vario with the altitude readout, based on an assumption of my part, that the readout would not be so important to me after all.
Yes, I made my decision about not going for the vario with the altitude readout, based on an assumption of my part, that the readout would not be so important to me after all.
I think you miss Tommy's point. Vario and Alti are 2 DIFFERENTS instruments. It may depend on how and where you fly, but sometimes you need alti indications, when the vario will tell you nothing interesting, and sometime all you care about is the vario. I have enough hours in a real sailplane to know how much you care about the alti.....
Bernard
02-13-2003, 07:46 PM
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02-14-2003, 11:08 PM
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thermal sniffer
As the distributer for Skymelody variometers in the US I would like to explain why we chose this product to support our involvement in the RC cross country movement. It is because of the wonderful total energy compensation. I'm a full size sailplane pilot who has become addicted to RC cross country. I know as any sailplane pilot knows how important vario compensation is, modern cross country and competion pilots simply will not fly without it. Knowing your altitude in a model is not at all like knowing your altitude in a manned glider. In a model going cross country you fly as high as your eyesite will handle it, the altitude your flying at is of little importance as you cannot fly higher as you will loose sight of it. In cross country except for final glide you fly as high as possible what ever number that is does not matter. Races are won by climbing the best you can, with great total energy compensation you know exactly where the core is. A good vario system opens a whole new world in RC soaring. Regards Dean
02-14-2003, 11:47 PM
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thermal sniffer
Hello Dean,
reading your posting, I wonder if you ever have flown with an altimeter in your model-glider. Especially on cross country it is very useful to know how much height you loose. You will have an exact sinking rate, and so you can perform very near to the best gliding of your model. And please do not forget, if you want , you can also have total-energy compensation with the picolario
I also wonder why our German competitor is working so hard for several years to get the same features, we offer for more than 5 years.
Be sure no one who have flown a variometer with altitude announcement will change to any system without these feature.
But you are right "a good vario system opens a whole new world in RC Soaring" .
best regards
Thommy
reading your posting, I wonder if you ever have flown with an altimeter in your model-glider. Especially on cross country it is very useful to know how much height you loose. You will have an exact sinking rate, and so you can perform very near to the best gliding of your model. And please do not forget, if you want , you can also have total-energy compensation with the picolario
I also wonder why our German competitor is working so hard for several years to get the same features, we offer for more than 5 years.
Be sure no one who have flown a variometer with altitude announcement will change to any system without these feature.
But you are right "a good vario system opens a whole new world in RC Soaring" .
best regards
Thommy
02-15-2003, 06:11 AM
#42
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thermal sniffer
Thommy,
As the sponsor of the Montague Cross Country Challange, one of the largest meets of its kind in the US I have become very familiar with all the varios including Multiplex and even the old Ace. There are some of us including myself who do not want the distraction of a voice telling me at what altitude I'm flying. Sink rates and speed to fly will have already been determined by test flights prior to going cross country. Practically speaking figuring out sink rates in the back of a pickup going 60mph isn't for everyone.
You are right, those with the Picolario like them very much. I'm not trying to convert everyone to a Skymelody vario, I would like more people to try a vario though. However for competitive soaring the Skymelody is still my choice. Regards Dean
As the sponsor of the Montague Cross Country Challange, one of the largest meets of its kind in the US I have become very familiar with all the varios including Multiplex and even the old Ace. There are some of us including myself who do not want the distraction of a voice telling me at what altitude I'm flying. Sink rates and speed to fly will have already been determined by test flights prior to going cross country. Practically speaking figuring out sink rates in the back of a pickup going 60mph isn't for everyone.
You are right, those with the Picolario like them very much. I'm not trying to convert everyone to a Skymelody vario, I would like more people to try a vario though. However for competitive soaring the Skymelody is still my choice. Regards Dean
02-27-2003, 10:40 PM
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Skymelody Vario
Photos of the Skymelody vario installation in my cross country glider can be seen by clicking product page on the xcsoaring.com website. Regards Dean
12-05-2004, 08:09 PM
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RE: thermal sniffer
Dragging back this old thread, I am curious to hear updates from both manufacturers. Surely things have changed, (including how competing companies treat each other). Also, are any other variometer options for RC pilots available? Please inform.
Warmest Regards,
Dan Edwards
[email protected]
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~djedward
Warmest Regards,
Dan Edwards
[email protected]
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~djedward
12-05-2004, 09:52 PM
#45
RE: thermal sniffer
Well, I don't know how the competing co's treat each other by now....
In the mean time, I have sold my Skymelody, and have also joined the ranks of the (happy) picolario users.
One of the reasons was, that one day I was approached by a gentleman at our field, who turned out to be a HAM operator, and in a very friendly way reminded me that the my Skymelody was transmitting on a HAM-band freq, and that in ordewr to do that, I should be holder of a HAM license.
Later on somebody else told me that for the power with which the Skymelody transmits, you don't need a HAM license. I don't know which is true...
Anyway, I sold my Skymelody, and bought a picolario from www.picolario-usa.com, and a quite happy with it.
I still think that for flatland thermal flying, the altitude readout is not an essential, but a nice-to-have thing.
What I really like, and what I would not want to miss, is the voice readout of the battery voltage, this has saved me at least one plane, so far !
Losing that plane, would have been a loss on the $ 700.- range, so the $ 360.- for the picolario already have proved to be a good investment.
As to other varios :
I know of one other vario which is used in Germany, made by a company called WesTech, but I don't have a ny info about how good/bad it is.
In the mean time, I have sold my Skymelody, and have also joined the ranks of the (happy) picolario users.
One of the reasons was, that one day I was approached by a gentleman at our field, who turned out to be a HAM operator, and in a very friendly way reminded me that the my Skymelody was transmitting on a HAM-band freq, and that in ordewr to do that, I should be holder of a HAM license.
Later on somebody else told me that for the power with which the Skymelody transmits, you don't need a HAM license. I don't know which is true...
Anyway, I sold my Skymelody, and bought a picolario from www.picolario-usa.com, and a quite happy with it.
I still think that for flatland thermal flying, the altitude readout is not an essential, but a nice-to-have thing.
What I really like, and what I would not want to miss, is the voice readout of the battery voltage, this has saved me at least one plane, so far !
Losing that plane, would have been a loss on the $ 700.- range, so the $ 360.- for the picolario already have proved to be a good investment.
As to other varios :
I know of one other vario which is used in Germany, made by a company called WesTech, but I don't have a ny info about how good/bad it is.
12-07-2004, 04:43 PM
#47
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RE: thermal sniffer
I have the early Eagle Tree product (not the Version 2) and it is just a flight recorder. It isn't a variometer. Unless it has been changed (the new version will send the flight parameters to your transmitter) I think you are talking apples and oranges. It'll show max/min height, airspeed, RPMs, etc but I don't think it will show rate of climb in real time such as the Piccolario
Just FYI: I have no idea about the new version features so I could be wrong...I have the earlier version of hardware.
Don
Just FYI: I have no idea about the new version features so I could be wrong...I have the earlier version of hardware.
Don
12-08-2004, 07:37 AM
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RE: thermal sniffer
I saw that the new version has a vario and warning beeps, but I am not sure how flexible it is or accurate.
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Seagull/seagull.html
I do not see any TEK mention.
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Seagull/seagull.html
I do not see any TEK mention.
