mesaflyer

Hi Guys,
There is really a long story behind this, but I will keep it as short as possible. Our family and friends like to go to the desert to camp, and ride quads and dirt bikes. My cousin has to give up his quad riding permanently. He was just starting to fly glow planes last year, and now wants a plane that he can take out to the desert when we go, instead of riding. With the exception of some sand, there is no landing area. So, he was thinking along the lines of a powered glider, that he could hand launch, and hopefully land slow, in the sand. Do you guys have any suggestions for a plane that might have to take a little abuse, such as landing in the sand, not grass? He is not a "real experienced" pilot, but was getting the hang of the glow planes, so he would probably out grow a beginners plane pretty fast. It just might be that the best thing for him is a beginners plane, and then later on, a second plane that he can do some more advanced maneuvers with. He just bought a Airtronics RDS8000 2.4 radio, but I don't know if they make a micro receiver yet. He would need an ARF, no kits. As for size and price, he has plenty of room to transport the plane, and hopefully not more than $500-600.00 for the plane.
Hope you guys can help, as he is a little bummed about having to give up his quad riding.
Thanks,
mesaflyer

scaflock

Hey Mesa,

Let me do a little checking around for you here and I'll get back to you on this one. Part of the selection process is going to require that I know just what area of the desert you're flying in. You'd want a different plane for Glamis as compared to one for Blow Sand or Borego Springs. I used to fly thermals out at Blow Sand and Glamis. A plane that flew great at one place wouldn't always do well at the other. It has to do with the terrain and how the wind blows through the area.

Jeff

iflytailies

My Feedback: (82)

I would recommend the Cularis from Multiplex

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Is this for thermal soaring or slope soaring?

Based on your post I presume you want an electric launched glider, not a hi-start launched glider.

For a complete plane that will thermal well and requires no building, select the Parkzone Radian PNP
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=PKZ4775

Multiplex Blizzard would be more of a warmliner/aerobatic glider
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXUTV3&P=7

both of these are foam, so they can take some abuse.

Omega II ME with flaps
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5380


Something BIG - Dragonfly E
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=3889

Let's start with these. What is your feedback

mesaflyer

scaflock,
Sounds like you used to do a little riding out in the desert yourself. We do most of our riding at Ocotillo Wells. We camp sometimes in the Southwest corner and sometimes on the North end, just off S-22. I figured he could land in a sand wash. I read on here that some people catch their planes? That sounds interesting.
aeajr,
Not being exactly sure of the difference between thermal and slope soaring, I presume that slope is basically flying from the top of a cliff or slope? And that thermal soaring is being were there are no cliffs, and trying to catch a thermal?
If that's the case, we would be flying were there are no cliffs to fly from. Fairly warm and dry there, and sometimes VERY windy. No, he will not be flying in strong winds.
Also, I think he is going to join our club, in the San Jacinto area, and he could use an electric powered glider there for sure. Again, fairly warm there too.
The Dragonfly is really nice, but probably a little out of his price range. He would probably like the Blizzard, and I will get him over here to look at some of the suggestions.
joedoe,
I'll have to track down the Cularis and check it out.

Thanks so much for the info, and if possible, please keep it coming.
If he gets going and really enjoys a glider, I just might have to get one myself so we can fly together when we are camping.

We really feel bad for him, because he really enjoys the camping and riding. But he just had one too many crashes with blows to the head (he REALLY is/was a good rider, just gets a little crazy sometimes), and the doctor told him one more blow to the head might be his last one.

mesaflyer

I forgot to ask, can he use a standard size receiver? This is what he currently has http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTZU8&P=0

Thanks

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

The standard size receiver could be made to work in any of them.

For thermal soaring, the Radian is very easy to fly and very easy to pack up and transport. It is hard to break and easy to fix.

The Blizzard would be more aerobatic, harder to fly and not thermal soar as well as the Radian.

I just noticed that the Omega has a carbon fuselage which might not work as well with his 2.4 GHz radio.


The Cularias was mentioned earlier. The Cularis is an ARF/Kit. It is more work than an typical ARF, but not near the effort of a wood kit. Teh tough Elapor foam works very well. This gives you flaps and ailerons so you can make camber changes with the trailing edge.
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5477

Based on your rough terraine and your feeling he is still somewhat of a new pilot, the foam planes would be a good place to start.

mesaflyer

About the receiver, not sure what you mean by "made to work"? Does he need to do something special to the receiver?

I saw the video on the Cularis last night. Nice plane. A video like that really makes me want to get into gliders/sailplanes. Real gracefull, and no engine noise. Don't get me wrong, I like the engine noise were it belongs.

I have put togetther several ARFS and have built 4 kits. So, not to afraid of putting things together.

Also, just read a little bit of the article on the Radian in the last R/C Report. Looks good so far, but I'll finish reading later.

He (and I) definately don't need another radio, but would like to get something that either has or recommends everything needed for electric flight.

I have a couple E-Flight electric helis, nothing big, but I understand the basic electric set-up.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Can the receiver be made to work? In the foam planes, you might need to carve a little bit. In other planes, it becomes a question of planning for the receiver location as you lay out your servos and such. Clearly micro receivers are easier to fit than standard size receivers, but it shoud not be a problem in the planes listed above. If we were talking hand launched gliders, then the receiver size becomes a major issue.


Electrics don't need anything special in terms of radio features. It is just a different power source.


It would be correct to say sailplanes are different than other planes. If you want to extract every bit of soaring performance out of a thermal duration glider you can take advantage of some very complex mixing. But you are not required to have all that mixing to fly your TD sailplane.

It is not a question of can you fly a full house electric sailplane with that radio, because you can. If you have a more capable radio. like a Futaba 9C Super, a JR 9303, an Airtronics Stylus, then you have more options and more things you can do. But those are opportunities not requirements. Your Airtronics RDS8000 2.4 radio radio will fly any of the planes listed.

You should be fine.

scaflock

Mesa,

I'm guilty as charged! I used to fly out at the wells quite a bit but that was years ago. I never got into the buggies but did do a little dirt biking. Does Pat still have the store out there? I haven't been out there in years now. It's a bit too long of a drive for me now living in Georgia and all.

A word to the wise here Mesa, no matter what plane your brother ends up getting make SURE it's got either spoilers or re-flexable flaps!!! HE WILL NEED THEM IN THAT AREA!!! First time I took my Paragon out there to fly I almost lost it! The thermals were flat out BOOMING that day and I hadn't included the spoilers during the build and I almost lost the plane. Spoilers would have made it much easier to break out of the thermals. To make a long story short I ended up fighting for almost 3 hours to get the plane to come back down so I could land it. As soon as I got out of one, another would throw it right back up. I finally ended up having to go inverted (not that easy with a poly wing) and flyign it that way until I was about 100' up. Then back to normal flight and land it as quick as I could. During the flight I lost sight of the plane several times.

I also used to do some flying a couple of mile from my old house in Ramona. On the east side of the valley there's a ridge that's a perfect lace for both slope and dynamic soaring. There is also an area down in Pamu Valley that's a good thermal site. Black Mt is a good place for slope but you'd better have a 4WD to get up to the top. Yet another good slope site is on Sunrise Hwy just north of I-8. That's one of the things I really miss about that area. You're hardly ever more than a stones throw for one kind of flying site or another. I've heard from friends that some of the areas are being built up though. If you and your brother get the chance, get yourselves out to Torrey Pines. One of the best slope sites in the state.

Jeff

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Wow, that sounds like a TD pilot's dream!

It also sounds like a good place to add some ballast.

scaflock

You got that right Ed. I usually had to add at least 2 pounds of lead to the Paragon. Thermals there are like an elevator that's stuck on up. You get out there at sunrise and it's thermal city till nightfall. When I am ready to go for LSF level V that's the place to do the thermal part then head down to Torrey Pines for the 8 hour slope flight.

Jeff

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

This is going to like sound a bit of an odd choice - but bear with me - IMHO the perfect choice is this: http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/kits/easy_star.php Here's why....

I have flown RC models at Glamis, Plaster City and Octotillo Wells areas, if you are flying and landing in a sandy area, you do NOT want a nose mounted engine! The sand and grit will quickly destroy the motor unless you are very diligent about cleaning all the dirt out on every landing (or you can catch it every time ).

The Easy Star, while ostensibly a trainer, is also very responsive and fun when you up the throws and upgrade to a hot brushless motor. It can really move out at full power and is surprisingly aerobatic, almost indestructable, and has a decent L/D and sink rate. And the motor is up high above the wing, out of harm's way. You can even do "slide and goes" in the sand

It will do rudder rolls, fly inverted, even do a decent rolling circle with a skilled hand on the sticks. I had a blast with mine and wish I had not gotten rid of it! I normally fly turbines, IMAC planes and F3X sailplanes, and I had as much fun with the ES as I have with any of my other models - with the "no worry, it's foam" aspect only helping!

Have fun -

Barry

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Good point! REAL good point.

qldviking

I have to agree about the sand issue, I used to fly one of my elec gliders of the beach at low tide. The beach had a massive sandbar out front that was always good for slope soaring if the was no lift, but the thermals I'd pick up of the flats in summer were awesome, but the sand found its way into everything [:-] so got a lot of practice playing catch with my glider. Very good practice for spot landing too[8D]

mesaflyer

dbarrym,
Thanks for the info and the link to the Easy Star. That might just be what he needs, as he will basically be starting over with his flying skills. Also, he has a 14 year old daughter that "wants to go flying with dad".
I'll get him over to the house this weekend, and he can start deciding on what he wants.
Again, I can't thank you guys enough for the help and info.
We had went to the LHS a few weeks ago, and were amazed and confused with all the different variations of gliders.
One day maybe I'll learn what the different acronyms? are for, like:
" a decent L/D and sink rate"
"F3X sailplanes"
"TD Pilot"
"LSF level V"
"TD sailplane"

scaflock,
I read your post about alsmost loosing your plane. That sounds like fun! So, would the ES work, not having spoilers or re-flexable flaps? Not sure what those are (I know what normal flaps are)? I like the idea of the high engine, think my cousin will too.
I've been to Torry Pines a long time ago, I was maybe 14 or 15, (I'm 49). I remember the model gliders, and the hang and full scale gliders going up and down the cliffs. Very nice, and lots of fun.
Thanks again.

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

No worries, you're welcome. It would be an ideal re-intro plane and can be flown by a beginner as well (with some help). Here's a basic start on the acronyms:

L/D - Lift over Drag ratio, essentially a measure of gliding performance - for example, an L/D of 30-1 means a glider (or parachute, etc.) will glide forward 30 feet for every 1 foot of altitude lost. A higher L/D means higher performance/less drag.

Sink rate - A measure of how fast a glider loses altitude per minute. The lower the sink rate, the longer the duration for a given altitude. Lower is better.

TD - Thermal Duration, a competition category of soaring that requires staying aloft using thermals and/or other sources of rising air for a set period of time. Gliders designed for optimum TD performance are referred to as "TD designs".

F3X - A general way of identifying different classes of sailplane competition, as defined by an international competition governing body (i.e. FAI, or Federation Aeronautique International). F3F = thermal duration, F3B = multi-task (i.e. TD plus speed and distance tasks), F3J = hand tow TD, etc. Broadly speaking, since I fly both TD and multi-task gliders, I just use the term "F3X" to refer to what I fly.

LSF Level V - Refers to League of Silent Flight (LSF) Level 5....the LSF is a special interest organization that recognizes the accomplishment of 5 different levels of soaring tasks, from L1 (basic solo ability) to 5 (8 hour slope flight, 6.2 mile cross country flight, winning a certain number of large TD contests, etc.). See http://www.silentflight.org/LSF_Base/tasks.htm

FWIW, I'm on my way to fly at Torrey Pines now, before it rains....taking an F3B glider (Trinity) and 5 lbs of ballast as it is blowing 12-18mph...can you say FUN!

Barry

scaflock

Ok.... Go ahead and rub it in Barry! the closest thing I've got to a slope site in my area is "Bandini Mountain" at the local dairy! I'm almost ready to move back to Ramona so I can go slope flying again. Nearest slope is about 2-1/2 hours away from me and is very limited as it's a dam and the wind has to be at just the right angle for it to be worth flying at. Landing is rocky and limited as well.

Jeff