kriegsmacht

My Feedback: (12)

I did a few searches for a post summarizing the basics of glider flying. If I missed it, you are welcome to point me to it, and I will happily suggest this post be removed. I am a very confident powered plane pilot, but I have been considering gliders. The price for the Tower Vista ARF is just too tempting.

The thing is... I don't think I fully "get it" and I'm not too proud to admit it. Here is how I imagine a glider flight would go:

I stretch back my hi-start and let her rip. Zoom - it shoots up a few hundred feet, and I nose over and level out. Ok so here I am, the glider above and in front of me, both of us facing the wind. Idon't hear an engine, so my mind goes into "deadstick" mode. Iquickly plot a path in 3D space and time that will set me up to land on the runway. I turn right and nose down till I am headed down wind. I fly a couple of circles to use up altitude then when I am just the right height, I swing on downwind, make a base leg and final and scoot right on down the middle of the runway.

That doesn't sound like much fun. Of course somewhere in there, so I have heard, my plane will bump around a little and this is a thermal. I turn into it and fly sort of slow, and the glider will rise like a cork in water. I assume I am leaving a lot out.. so would someone mind filling me in on the basics which must be so simple they are assumed everyone knows?

Do you make circles? Should you zig zag or go around and round?What I mean by zig zag is for example, you are riding a bicycle in a parade. The parade is going really slow, but your bike must keep moving, so you ridea zig zagpath back and forth across the street as well as slowly forward. The bike and glider have a mininum speed before they "fall". Ok, maybe that's not a good example at all, but... Is the glider's speed while flying optimally usually less or morethan the windspeed? Therefore will it always fly away from you into the breeze or under some conditions stay over head or even "back up" Are you not supposed to point the nose downwind? Can you fly in dead calm?

Will I always be able to find a thermal, or is there a chance the area I fly at doesn't even have a thermal occasionally. I am pretty interested in giving this a try, but one short "deadstick" landing after the other sounds sort of disappointing.

I guess I must sounds like a dunce with all these questions.. maybe I could sum it all up with one. After launching the plane, what percent of the time can I expect it go ever go higher than the top of the launch. 25% of the time? Also the pattern to fly is something I am curious about. Thanks

qldviking

Actually, your summarising was about the same as my thoughts on rc gliders too,  till my instructor brought along a glider one day day.  i helped him launch it, and as soon as he had it cruising he gave me the radio,  told me to just keep it level, and if it seemed to push one way or another to turn it into the push.  I was lucky that day,  there was quite a few good thermals that day.  about 10 minutes later I asked my instructor what do I do now,  he looked up and said,  "bring her back down   "GENTLY"    I got that focused on it I didnt realise I had been steadily climbing and was way above our cieling limit.  I bought that glider that day.
ok  there are no hard and fast rules as to searching for thermals,  There are a lot of factors involved, the only constant is you got to be up there to find them.  some days there are few with litttle lift, other days its the down elevator you are looking for.  most days are somewhere in between.  I have enjoyed flying rc gliders for many years now, its probably my favourite aspect of rc planes.  Do I circle?  zigzag?   I have no set pattern,   basicly fly as I feel,  I usually fly back and forth across the wind looking for lift,  trying not to get too much speed up, but then windspeed will also affect how I fly too.  In windy conditions I used tyo ballast my big thermal glider, and could actully climb just holding it steady in the breeze itself (15kn+)   I find it most enjoyable and relaxing flying gliders,  and I have been known to lie down on the grass while flying, especially on a good day where I am getting 1 hour plus flights, the longest I've had was nearly 6 hours.  I have also flown in various competions which is a whole new ball game and very enjoyable too.
yes gliders are different to power,  But a very enjoyable side.  I would suggest talking to other glider guiders and maybe even join them when they are flying

CBM Racing

I think you will be amazed at how long you can "sail" even without thermal action. Also the speed can be impressive for no motor pulling you along. Also, after getting used to flying it, some aerobatics are loads of fun as well. Not sure with the vista, but with my radian, a 2 second nose down dive(not straight down) and I get 3 loops in a row, or inverted flight, stall turns...anything that doesn't need ailerons you can do. Then when you actuall hit good lift for first time, you will probably split your face grinning so much. It is anything but a deadstick landing.

matrix-RCU

My Feedback: (7)

"Then when you actually hit good lift for first time, you will probably split your face grinning so much."

Have to admit that's what happened to me! Iwas ready to sell all of my gas and electric stuff and go completely gliders....but then came to my senses

Flying gliders is a lot like fishing....you need to hunt around the sky to find those slippery thermals....sometimes they're a bit hard to find and thenthere arethose days where the fish nearly jump in the boat.....ooopsImean the thermals as so numerous and strong you can literally fly for hours.....and as qldviking said you have to force the plane down.....

For your first glider I would suggest an electriclike the Radian.....you'll appreciate the convenience of just throwing her back up after a thermal-less flight....it'll take you a little while before you get the feel for finding thermals....

Good luck!

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Learning to Use a Hi-Start
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=216

What do Thermals Look Like?

http://www.flyaboveall.com/mountainp...rmalclinic.htm

Detecting Thermals

http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/Thermals.htm

Plane Locators
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=237

Tuning Your Glider's Elevator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz0SqTPv3PQ

Performance Tuning Gliders
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=227

Using Ballast
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=232

Test Flight Procedures
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=226

Video of a hand throw - test glide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwur...eature=related

Workshop Ventilation
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=235

CG Location

http://polecataero.com/articles/cg-location

Using the Rudder in Thermal Flying

http://www.polecataero.com/articles/...hermal-flying/

Getting Planes out of trees

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=239

Sample Set-up for a Full House Glider

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=233

Weather - Knowing When to Fly

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=236

Contest Strategies

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265089

Timing the Zoom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSDmYwbMxZo

Reference to various types of soaring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-c...orms_of_flight

RADIOS

Choosing a Sailplane Radio - What to Consider
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=223

First Time Servo Set-up

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=248

What Goes on Which Stick
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=234

Range Checks
http://www.*********.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7753

EPA/ATV

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=247

Dual Rates and Exponential Compared and Explained

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=249

THE JOY OF SOARING

Trying to explain the thrill of gliders to friends
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175969

The Joy of the Hunt
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225

Soaring is more fun with friends

http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=228

Follow me, silently, and I'll show you where there's lift!

kriegsmacht

My Feedback: (12)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all your time, info and advice. In the meantime I have ordered and received the Vista. I decided against electric power as just a matter of personal preference. A motor might save my plane from the woods someday, and would make launching easier as well, but I just wouldn't be comfortable with it on there. It just seems like thats what pure sailplanes "do", they go up and come down when they get ready, and sometimes trying to not "land out" would seem to be part of the excitement. Sort of like an electric motor on a RC sailboat. I should be sailing the sailboat, not driving it, right? I'm not knocking powered planes, I thought about it a while before choosing and may go that way if this turns up a bust. Price was a consideration too, although I don't have a hi-start, which is going to cost me to get a new or good used one.

Anyway, I got it last night, and laid it out. It looks well made to me, I am looking forward very much to flying it.

Thanks again for the help. I will try to get a video of my first sailplane launch/incident ever.

Tom Nied

I got to bookmark this page.

snuts

The BUG is in your house, it will bite you, given enough time.
You own a true glider, it may have been the price. But the seed was planted some timeago. Congradulations, and welcome to the world of gliding.
Good lift,  -Snuts-

BMatthews

qldviking described an ideal flight and truth be told they seldom work out that ideally in your first few dozen or more. Depending on your area and conditions you may not actually see your model go up for your first dozen or more times out in fact...... Or you may see this happen the very first time and then not be able to repeat it for the next dozen. Thermals are sort of like winning the Lotto but with far better odds.....

I'm sure our very capable aeajr has posted this somewhere already but here's how I approach a thermal flight.

1)Come off the highstart or winch and turn to a crab angle that keeps your model at the original distance upwind where you came off the line. Crab over to one side as far as you're comfortable with then using a breath of rudder and elevator turn back into the wind and past it and set up the same crab angle back again to carry you past your original release point and out to the other side. Repeat until low enough that you have to turn downwind and run the typical pattern to land. Another alternative to this is to run your first couple of crab lines out in front and let the subsequent crab lines drift back and get tighter between the turns as the model comes down until the last one ends as a crab and final turn into the wind to run a short approach and end up touching down about 10 feet from your toes. Exciting, eh? Obviously this is the pattern you would use during a no lift day when you seen nothing that bumps the model. Its only saving grace is that it results in less walking.

2)During the hunt pattern in Step1 described above if you see the model lift a wing then turn gently but with a good amount of positive action into the lifting wing. If you see it lift then continue this turn into the lift into a circle. Watch the model during this circle to see if it's lifting and where in the circle it is lifting. Adjust your circle to try to put more of the turn into the lift. Not all thermals at lower altitudes will let you center in them with an open turn so you may need to live with just getting lift for much of a more open turn or decide if the lift is strong enough to justify a tighter circle with the extra drag that brings. As the model gets higher and if you're not climbing during the whole circle again try to adjust it so it centers the lift. Many thermals start tightly grouped at lower altitudes and swell out as they grow and gain altitude. You can often open and center your turn and find yourself in more gentle but wider spread lift once you've ridden the "washing machine" up for a couple of hundred feet. And sometime a wing lift will just be a transient upward or downward rotor if the air is mixed and there's obstructions fairly close by upwind to disturbe the air that is closer to the ground. Your education will involve developing a flair for which is which. And NO, there is no easy way to tell you which is which. Every model responds in a different way and you just need to see how your model reacts to your local conditions.

3)Circle downwind with the lift staying centered in the core once you've found it or be ready to adapt as the thermal morphs its shape.. and they WILL morph a lot quite commonly. There's one thing that is steady about thermal flying and that is that it'll change on a constant basis.... Keep in mind you need to get back to the field if you want to avoid an embarrasing walk My advice is to learn what your upwind ground coverage is like in a variety of winds. And a hearty suggestion to remind you that it's far less embarassing (remember that walk of shame? ) to come back a bit early and have to burn off some altitude than it is to land a few hundred yards short of where you're standing. And there's nothing for this but to fly and practice in a variety of winds as much as you're comfortable with.

This is why for me sailplane flying is a constant and still enduring challenge. It's sort of like going fly fishing. Sure you know your gear like the back of your hand but you do NOT know what the fish (thermals) are doing or what the river (weather) is like until you get there and have to deal with it. An ever changing challenge that can empower or humble you at its will....

Flying the model is definetly not the issue. Gliders/sailplanes are among the easiet of models to fly. They make great trainers in fact. But to SOAR! THAT is the challenge!

kriegsmacht

My Feedback: (12)

I have one other question.. I've heard of gliders floating so high that there was a danger of losing sight of it. While I don't expect to be lucky enough to go that high for some time, you never know and I would like to be prepared.

So how do you get down properly? If you simply nose over into a vertical dive, you will likely overspeed and snap the wing when you pull out, right? I have heard someone say "spin it down". So if I were to go so high it's only a speck and I can't make heads or tails of what is going on, how do I enter a spin? Full rudder and up elevator?

I have been assembling the Vista, which was a breeze of course. Sorry, but I just couldn't be satisfied with the tape hinges. I stripped the covering from the elevator and rudder, sanded the leading edges of them to a V and installed Klett pinned hinges. I hope this wasn't a mistake, I do this to all my powered ARFs, although I usually use Robart.

I still plan to have video of the first test hand glide ever. I thought I'd toss it down a gentle hill for a longer flight. I saw some buzzards circling so high today you almost needed binoculars to see them. I don't think any of them flapped a wing in the few min I watched. I thought how it would be nice to get my glider into that...

Tom Nied

I am no expert, but I have done loops to lose altitude, and it has worked for me. You'd be surprised just how strong these planes are. Again, I'm no expert at sailplanes and am still learning. I had a Radian get sucked up in a thermal, and I knew at that time. It got too high and I lost it. Fortunately I had my name & phone # on it and I got it back.

snuts

Not to high of a hill, landing below yourself can be challenging. Ask anybody that has lost lift at the slope. A sports, or soccer field should be all you need for test gliding, and trimming.
-Snuts-