Raptor vs Caliber
12-10-2004, 02:25 PM
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Raptor vs Caliber
Sorry if this issue has been beaten to death in the past on this forum but...
My Heli experience equals zero (lots of fixed wing time though). Radio is Airtronics RD8000. Lots of good building equipment and tools.
Question:
If I were to start out with a 30 size heli, which of these would be *better;
Caliber 30 w/ OS32
or
Raptor 30 v2 Sport w/ TT39 Pro
*By better I mean durable for a begginer and forgiving. The price of the units doesn't matter much, since that seems to change every day.
I also need to know if buying it in kit form and assembling it will help me understand its flight dynamics better, or just get the ARF to avoid putting it together (in the case that it's not all that educational)
One more thing... It looks like a lot of people suggest Raptor 50, can anyone tell me why specifically besides the fact that I won't outgrow it as quickly as the 30s. I know the bigger heli is slightly more stable, but thats about all I know. And is the RD8000 "standard swashplate types" compatible with the helos in question?
If anyone owns one or all three of these and could give me some specific reasons why overall one is better than the other I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
My Heli experience equals zero (lots of fixed wing time though). Radio is Airtronics RD8000. Lots of good building equipment and tools.
Question:
If I were to start out with a 30 size heli, which of these would be *better;
Caliber 30 w/ OS32
or
Raptor 30 v2 Sport w/ TT39 Pro
*By better I mean durable for a begginer and forgiving. The price of the units doesn't matter much, since that seems to change every day.
I also need to know if buying it in kit form and assembling it will help me understand its flight dynamics better, or just get the ARF to avoid putting it together (in the case that it's not all that educational)
One more thing... It looks like a lot of people suggest Raptor 50, can anyone tell me why specifically besides the fact that I won't outgrow it as quickly as the 30s. I know the bigger heli is slightly more stable, but thats about all I know. And is the RD8000 "standard swashplate types" compatible with the helos in question?
If anyone owns one or all three of these and could give me some specific reasons why overall one is better than the other I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
12-10-2004, 06:06 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
I run that same radio with the Caliber 30. The set up for it is compatible, but was a little tricky. The Caliber however is only available in ARF form, But I can say that if you have a decent understanding of how things go together, you'll be able to figure it out just by going over everything while you assemble it. As far as flying, the Caliber is extremely smooth. A great flying heli with a couple different options as far as set up goes. There are quite a few upgrade parts available, but you don't really need them until you crash. It's also 3D capable right out of the box, wich is nice for when your ready to move on.
12-10-2004, 06:13 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
I'm a newbee like yourself, but I thought I'd reply because I just went through
exactly the same process you're considering now.
I was considering the Century Hawk vs. the Raptor 30. In the end I decided to
go with the Raptor 30 as I really couldn't find anything negative about it.
For the most part, those people that bought a different helicopter kit always
referred to it as "just as good as a Raptor 30", which to me was an attempt
to justify their decision.
The Raptor 30 V2 is THE most popular .30 size helicopter in the world as of this
posting, which should tell you something.
I bought the Raptor 30 V2 kit because I couldn't afford the Raptor 50. If I had
the money for the 50, I would have bought it. Note that the 30 can be upgraded
to a 50 down the road for about $130.00 (upgrade - not including engine etc.).
My reason for buying the Raptor; A). It's very well designed, and very stable
in flight; B). When (not if) I do crash it, I know I'm going to be back up and
running (funds permitting) as soon as possible because my LHS is going to
stock the parts for the most popular helicopter; C). I know that the rest of
the heli pilots in my club will be able to help me with setup.
As far as whether to go with the kit or the ARF, I guess that depends on
whether or not you like to build things. There's a very good website
called http://www.raptortechnique.com/ that is just loaded with building
and setup tips - I don't know that the same is true for the Caliber 30.
If you buy the ARF kit, you get the full 49 bearing machine, whereas the
kit only has 29 - the bearing upgrade kit is less than $18.00 at heliproz.com.
It's my understanding that if you buy the basic kit and the bearing upgrade
separately, it costs less than the ARF kit - in the U.S. anyway.
Most people I've spoken to about the TT39 engine tell me it's a good
engine, once you've got it set up. Again, this is one of those "it's as
good as an OS" statements. I've never heard anyone say anything
negative about the OS engine, but plenty of people claim the TT39
engine isn't as easy to set up. For my money, I'm going with the TT39
simply because it was designed with the Raptor in mind, and I believe
it's a good engine.
That's my two cents, for what it's worth.
Hope that helps.
exactly the same process you're considering now.
I was considering the Century Hawk vs. the Raptor 30. In the end I decided to
go with the Raptor 30 as I really couldn't find anything negative about it.
For the most part, those people that bought a different helicopter kit always
referred to it as "just as good as a Raptor 30", which to me was an attempt
to justify their decision.
The Raptor 30 V2 is THE most popular .30 size helicopter in the world as of this
posting, which should tell you something.
I bought the Raptor 30 V2 kit because I couldn't afford the Raptor 50. If I had
the money for the 50, I would have bought it. Note that the 30 can be upgraded
to a 50 down the road for about $130.00 (upgrade - not including engine etc.).
My reason for buying the Raptor; A). It's very well designed, and very stable
in flight; B). When (not if) I do crash it, I know I'm going to be back up and
running (funds permitting) as soon as possible because my LHS is going to
stock the parts for the most popular helicopter; C). I know that the rest of
the heli pilots in my club will be able to help me with setup.
As far as whether to go with the kit or the ARF, I guess that depends on
whether or not you like to build things. There's a very good website
called http://www.raptortechnique.com/ that is just loaded with building
and setup tips - I don't know that the same is true for the Caliber 30.
If you buy the ARF kit, you get the full 49 bearing machine, whereas the
kit only has 29 - the bearing upgrade kit is less than $18.00 at heliproz.com.
It's my understanding that if you buy the basic kit and the bearing upgrade
separately, it costs less than the ARF kit - in the U.S. anyway.
Most people I've spoken to about the TT39 engine tell me it's a good
engine, once you've got it set up. Again, this is one of those "it's as
good as an OS" statements. I've never heard anyone say anything
negative about the OS engine, but plenty of people claim the TT39
engine isn't as easy to set up. For my money, I'm going with the TT39
simply because it was designed with the Raptor in mind, and I believe
it's a good engine.
That's my two cents, for what it's worth.
Hope that helps.
12-10-2004, 06:55 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
I agree. With most of the MODERN heli's out there you have to understand one thing... Almost any of them is going to be just as good as any other. The real factor in deciding which one should be first and foremost what OTHER people that you are going to be getting help from are flying. If everyone is flying Hawk Sports, and you buy a raptor, they a) won't have as much knowledge about your ship and setup of it as they would if you also had a hawk sport, and b) won't have a stockpile of parts for those saturday afternoon lawn dart sessions which means you'll be forced to wait till Monday to order new ones.. 
Another factor to consider is price... Not of the ship itself, but rather how MUCH one of those lawn dart sessions is going to cost you. The caliber isn't an expensive machine by any means, but I think you'll find both the hawk sport and the raptor a bit cheaper. As for understanding the "workings" of it, the most difficult thing to understand is really just the flybar and how it comes into play. Otherwise it's all pretty straightforward and easy to understand. So basically it just comes down to rather you want to spend an hour putting it together (and another 12 getting the radio installed and set up.. 
) or rather you want to spend a day or two putting it together followed by another 12 getting the radio installed and set up.. The Raptor 50 is basically the same size as the 30 other than a slightly longer tail and 600mm blades instead of 550mm blades... That will make it just a little more stable, but honestly not enough for you to really notice... The only real advantage, IN MY OPINION is that the 50 will auto easier than a 30 because of the extra potential stored in the blades. Some will say the 30 almost can't be auto'd.. Thats bung... It can be done and really isn't that hard... but yes, the 50 is easier. Just make sure to practice on a sim for a while before trying it for real... 
As for out growing it.. I really don't know that there is such a thing... The 30 has plenty of power and can do just as much as the 50 in my opinion. I don't know anything about the RD8000, I'm a futaba guy myself, but I'm sure it works fine with either. It's the other swashplates you have to watch out for, but I'm positive the RD8000 supports all types. Last but not least is a comment about getting help. If for some reason there is nobody else in your club that flies heli's and therefore nobody to offer you any help, then I would HIGHLY recommend going with the raptor. The reason being is the www.raptortechnique.com site. It's almost a replacement for having someone there to go through it with you. I doubt you'll find a site that comprehensive and that helpful for the caliber, (or the hawk sport for that matter). Last but not least, no matter WHAT you go with, your not going to be disappointed... (Unless you lawn dart on the first flight...)
Another factor to consider is price... Not of the ship itself, but rather how MUCH one of those lawn dart sessions is going to cost you. The caliber isn't an expensive machine by any means, but I think you'll find both the hawk sport and the raptor a bit cheaper. As for understanding the "workings" of it, the most difficult thing to understand is really just the flybar and how it comes into play. Otherwise it's all pretty straightforward and easy to understand. So basically it just comes down to rather you want to spend an hour putting it together (and another 12 getting the radio installed and set up.. ) or rather you want to spend a day or two putting it together followed by another 12 getting the radio installed and set up.. The Raptor 50 is basically the same size as the 30 other than a slightly longer tail and 600mm blades instead of 550mm blades... That will make it just a little more stable, but honestly not enough for you to really notice... The only real advantage, IN MY OPINION is that the 50 will auto easier than a 30 because of the extra potential stored in the blades. Some will say the 30 almost can't be auto'd.. Thats bung... It can be done and really isn't that hard... but yes, the 50 is easier. Just make sure to practice on a sim for a while before trying it for real... As for out growing it.. I really don't know that there is such a thing... The 30 has plenty of power and can do just as much as the 50 in my opinion. I don't know anything about the RD8000, I'm a futaba guy myself, but I'm sure it works fine with either. It's the other swashplates you have to watch out for, but I'm positive the RD8000 supports all types. Last but not least is a comment about getting help. If for some reason there is nobody else in your club that flies heli's and therefore nobody to offer you any help, then I would HIGHLY recommend going with the raptor. The reason being is the www.raptortechnique.com site. It's almost a replacement for having someone there to go through it with you. I doubt you'll find a site that comprehensive and that helpful for the caliber, (or the hawk sport for that matter). Last but not least, no matter WHAT you go with, your not going to be disappointed... (Unless you lawn dart on the first flight...)
12-10-2004, 08:54 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
I was also in the same boat! Over the summer, I was trying to choose my first fuel heli… between the Caliber 30 and the Raptor 30v2. I came to a decision to get the Raptor 30v2 just because of the support and parts availably. I got the kit with an OS 32, bearing upgrade, and muffler from HeliProz.com. They seem to have the reasonable price for combo deal… plus free shipping!
Worked on putting the chopper together in a week (2 hours a night)… I’m pretty sure some assembled the kit in about 8 hours. The Raptor is really stable… learning to fly it was straightforward… just like in the simulator. No 3D flying yet... just some fig. 8 and some stall turns.
I just wanted to share my insight to the Raptor… good luck choosing your heli.
Worked on putting the chopper together in a week (2 hours a night)… I’m pretty sure some assembled the kit in about 8 hours. The Raptor is really stable… learning to fly it was straightforward… just like in the simulator. No 3D flying yet... just some fig. 8 and some stall turns.
I just wanted to share my insight to the Raptor… good luck choosing your heli.
12-10-2004, 11:31 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
THANKS EVERYONE! I spoke with my LHS and AMA charter flying field today. They said they all have more experience with the Raptor. The LHS has crash kits for all the models I'm comparing. I'm going to go with the Raptor 50 only because I've heard a couple times that the 30 overheats on some people. I think I'm going to get the ARF also. I checked out http://www.raptortechnique.com that's a great site and a good reason to get one like you said.
Does anyone know where to get a brand new RD8000 tx without servos or receiver? I really want to get a FS8 Co-Pilot. If not an RD8000 does Futaba sell just a bare tx? My current RD8000 is being sold with a plane I'm using to fund some of this transition to carbon and plastic instead of balsa and epoxy.
Oh, all you Raptor people, I need advice on a gyro and tail servo combo, maybe someone like me who going to have to learn to fly with it has one that worked well for them (not sure if that's radio dependent, but if it is might help me choose Airtronics or Futaba)...
Thanks again, this is an invaluable resource for info since nobody is trying to sell me stuff here.
Does anyone know where to get a brand new RD8000 tx without servos or receiver? I really want to get a FS8 Co-Pilot. If not an RD8000 does Futaba sell just a bare tx? My current RD8000 is being sold with a plane I'm using to fund some of this transition to carbon and plastic instead of balsa and epoxy.
Oh, all you Raptor people, I need advice on a gyro and tail servo combo, maybe someone like me who going to have to learn to fly with it has one that worked well for them (not sure if that's radio dependent, but if it is might help me choose Airtronics or Futaba)...
Thanks again, this is an invaluable resource for info since nobody is trying to sell me stuff here.
12-11-2004, 03:24 AM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
Just bought a Futaba 9CHP super today. TX, RX bat and charger, no servos for 430$ Not sure how it compares to the RD8000, but it certanly is very nice radio, more than the average guy (me for example) really needs.
12-11-2004, 04:22 AM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
Okay this is what I went with:
Raptor 30v2 Pro ARF $299.99
OS .37 SZH w/ MVPV0102 muffler $149.99
JR 8103FM w/ 4 811 digital servos $559.99
Futaba GY401 gyro w/ 9254 digital tail servo $inc with radio price
FMA Co-Pilot FS8 $229.95
+Misc building equipment
Total $1285.95 all from heliproz except co-pilot
Hopefully I can sell some of my airplane stuff to cover this!
I'm not getting the Raptor 50 because I hear lots of good things about the OS 37 SZH, and the 50 upgrade kit is cheap if I change my mind.
Raptor 30v2 Pro ARF $299.99
OS .37 SZH w/ MVPV0102 muffler $149.99
JR 8103FM w/ 4 811 digital servos $559.99
Futaba GY401 gyro w/ 9254 digital tail servo $inc with radio price
FMA Co-Pilot FS8 $229.95
+Misc building equipment
Total $1285.95 all from heliproz except co-pilot
Hopefully I can sell some of my airplane stuff to cover this!
I'm not getting the Raptor 50 because I hear lots of good things about the OS 37 SZH, and the 50 upgrade kit is cheap if I change my mind.
12-13-2004, 02:08 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
i ve got a caliber 30 with a west 36T1=performance pipe and Futaba 3001 on the cyclics and a gy401 gyro with a 9253 and the radio i am running it on is a FF9
Kane
Kane
12-13-2004, 02:49 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
Nothing beats the thread that starts with
Go with what your LHS has in stock. If yer cheap and love ordering online to get that brown truck to deliver to ya, order the cheaper one
Sorry if this issue has been beaten to death in the past on this forum but...
12-13-2004, 03:38 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
Actually I think the guy who replies to the thread who obviously didn't read it and says the same as the person who started it beats the guy who starts a thread with "Sorry if this issue has been beaten to death in the past on this forum but... "
It's not that I'm cheap, trust me I patronize my local Hobby Town enough; I'm not paying retail on the heli no freaking way.
It's not that I'm cheap, trust me I patronize my local Hobby Town enough; I'm not paying retail on the heli no freaking way.
12-14-2004, 11:31 PM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
I'm a neophyte and have zero actual flying experience on anything other than rubber powered aircraft and electric powered monster trucks that I did years ago. I have lots of hours on the Real Flight G2 simulator and can do almost everything in helis without crashing. I decided to invest in this hobby and decided between a Caliber 30- and Raptor 50 V2. I chose the latter for the reason that I would not have to worry about upgrading to a larger heli later on. Besides, I believe the Raptor is the most popular heli among hobbyist from what I have learned in the months that I was learning about this model in the internet and from reviews I read from different RC magazines.
The Raptor 50V2 only comes in a kit which is fine for me because I wanted to know everything about the heli. I have years of experience assembling static models of aircrafts and motor vehicles that I have in my collection. I thought I would breeze through the assembly in no time but as I learned, assembling a nitro powered RC helicopter and an RC electric truck is like comparing apples and oranges especially if the kit comes with lousy intructions. One has to use a crystal ball to determine which part goes where. The assembly manual comes with nice computerized illustration. But it does not tell you what to do each step. Where it not for Raptortechnique.com I would not have been able to be where I am now... final assembly of the tail rotor mechanics. Dont get me wrong, the parts of the Raptor are high class because each part is manufactured with precise measurement and quality. The mechanics are built to exacting standards.
The parts comes in plastic bags based on each step as outlined in the assembly manual. It would have been easier of Thunder Tiger marked each plastic bags with numbers, and a packing list that tells what each bag contains and to what number in the assembly sequence it belongs. It would have made up for the lousy manual it came with it.
I still have a long way to go as I have to finish the tail section and install the digital servos, 401 gyro and receivers and set up the Futaba 7C transmitter. I have this to do all winter long. If you are interested in getting yourself flying sooner, get the ARF and not the kit. It would save you a lot of headaches.....
The Raptor 50V2 only comes in a kit which is fine for me because I wanted to know everything about the heli. I have years of experience assembling static models of aircrafts and motor vehicles that I have in my collection. I thought I would breeze through the assembly in no time but as I learned, assembling a nitro powered RC helicopter and an RC electric truck is like comparing apples and oranges especially if the kit comes with lousy intructions. One has to use a crystal ball to determine which part goes where. The assembly manual comes with nice computerized illustration. But it does not tell you what to do each step. Where it not for Raptortechnique.com I would not have been able to be where I am now... final assembly of the tail rotor mechanics. Dont get me wrong, the parts of the Raptor are high class because each part is manufactured with precise measurement and quality. The mechanics are built to exacting standards.
The parts comes in plastic bags based on each step as outlined in the assembly manual. It would have been easier of Thunder Tiger marked each plastic bags with numbers, and a packing list that tells what each bag contains and to what number in the assembly sequence it belongs. It would have made up for the lousy manual it came with it.
I still have a long way to go as I have to finish the tail section and install the digital servos, 401 gyro and receivers and set up the Futaba 7C transmitter. I have this to do all winter long. If you are interested in getting yourself flying sooner, get the ARF and not the kit. It would save you a lot of headaches.....
12-15-2004, 09:03 AM
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RE: Raptor vs Caliber
What you will probably find even more amazing is that the Raptor book is without a doubt the best and most comprehensive manual I've seen with a heli kit. It makes most of them look like they are wrote entirely in kanja with no illustrations...
