Need help with this heli...please
01-14-2005, 12:08 PM
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Need help with this heli...please
Hi. I'm a newbie in the world of electric helis, so far the only one I have tried to fly was a mega chopper (it crashed during their fourth flight, never was at more that 3 ft from the ground). Recently I bought a hobbyzone X-effect thinking that the heli was easy to fly but I'm having problems...
First, I don't know how much time do I have to charge the battery (no clue in the manual) and second, the heli just spins to the left every time I try to make it take off and simply doesn't leave the ground no matter how much I push the throttle, so far adjusting the trims is not solving the problems.
So if you can help me that would be great, I don't wanna think I wasted 200 bucks in this thing.
Thanks.
First, I don't know how much time do I have to charge the battery (no clue in the manual) and second, the heli just spins to the left every time I try to make it take off and simply doesn't leave the ground no matter how much I push the throttle, so far adjusting the trims is not solving the problems.
So if you can help me that would be great, I don't wanna think I wasted 200 bucks in this thing.
Thanks.
01-14-2005, 12:53 PM
#2
RE: Need help with this heli...please
Man, I hate to be negative, but I have read nothing but bad on these little electric helis. I can't figure out why people keep buying them. They spend more in the long run replacing them and trying to make them work than a reliable heli would cost. 
01-14-2005, 02:09 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Honestly I hate to see it happening so much myself... I'm not dead set against the micros... I think they have their place... IF you have a sim, AND a normal size heli, and you want something to beat around in the garage or something (assuming you have a big enough garage!) or even in the house (if you get an XRB that's stable enough to fly indoors), then I think they can be a cheap "thrill"... (read that, chase the dog around the house 
) Unfortunately they are not marketed that way... Most people that buy these things really don't know that there is much different between one of these and a nitro (or regular 30 size heli anyway.. nothing wrong with the bigger electrics, just the initial up-front costs)... What REALLY pains me is the ones that obviously go this route because they think they will be "saving" money over a nitro but end up throwing it away because they can't fly it and give up, or worse yet, end up spending a fortune on repair parts, etc... I actually talked to a guy once who had bought a micro to "save money" because he could afford to lay out $700 - $1500 on a nice nitro setup... Problem was, he had actually already spent almost $1000 on upgrading the micro, repairing the micro, buying better batteries, etc... He could have had a sweet nitro setup if he had just went that route in the first place.
Unfortunately marketing works... Think of it this way.... How many people, that AREN'T into the hobby, really know, or even think for that matter that there is ANY difference between a $50 Tyco RC car and a $600 Team Associated RC car? Most people look at the price and can't understand why anyone would pay $600 for the TA, not realizing it's an apples to oranges comparison...
The sad part is, a lot of the people i've talked to that have went down this same road and ended up very displeased with their micro purchase, found the heli on ebay or some place like that, they know forums like these existed until AFTER they bought it.
) Unfortunately they are not marketed that way... Most people that buy these things really don't know that there is much different between one of these and a nitro (or regular 30 size heli anyway.. nothing wrong with the bigger electrics, just the initial up-front costs)... What REALLY pains me is the ones that obviously go this route because they think they will be "saving" money over a nitro but end up throwing it away because they can't fly it and give up, or worse yet, end up spending a fortune on repair parts, etc... I actually talked to a guy once who had bought a micro to "save money" because he could afford to lay out $700 - $1500 on a nice nitro setup... Problem was, he had actually already spent almost $1000 on upgrading the micro, repairing the micro, buying better batteries, etc... He could have had a sweet nitro setup if he had just went that route in the first place.Unfortunately marketing works... Think of it this way.... How many people, that AREN'T into the hobby, really know, or even think for that matter that there is ANY difference between a $50 Tyco RC car and a $600 Team Associated RC car? Most people look at the price and can't understand why anyone would pay $600 for the TA, not realizing it's an apples to oranges comparison...
The sad part is, a lot of the people i've talked to that have went down this same road and ended up very displeased with their micro purchase, found the heli on ebay or some place like that, they know forums like these existed until AFTER they bought it.
01-14-2005, 03:04 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
I HATE BASEBALL!!...buncha weennies running around in stupid little caps!!....wearing gloves so they wont hurt their hands if they have to catch a ball.....
I LOVE FOOTBALL.....YEAH THATS IT!.....FOOTBALL......320 pounds.. 6 feet five monsters ripping each others back bones out!!....BLOOD GUTS AND GRIME.....YEAH THATS IT!......WE SHOULD GET RID OF ALL THE OTHER SPORTS.....
The first time golfer buys his clubs from Wal-mart.....Crappy fishing poles from K-Mart....That doesnt make it right....It just makes it so.....
I know more about micro helicopters than a grown man my age should.....
I know there are crappy fishing poles and crappy golf clubs out there...But there are also about a hundred thousand micro heli pilots out there having a ball to.....I am also told that Micro Helicopters are the fastest grown RC sport at this time....
Ofcourse I could be wrong...Just like you are....but.....
instead of totally bumming this guy out wouldnt it be easier to direct him to the Electric Helicopter area?....where people want to help?
BTW....I love Baseball...
I LOVE FOOTBALL.....YEAH THATS IT!.....FOOTBALL......320 pounds.. 6 feet five monsters ripping each others back bones out!!....BLOOD GUTS AND GRIME.....YEAH THATS IT!......WE SHOULD GET RID OF ALL THE OTHER SPORTS.....
The first time golfer buys his clubs from Wal-mart.....Crappy fishing poles from K-Mart....That doesnt make it right....It just makes it so.....
I know more about micro helicopters than a grown man my age should.....
I know there are crappy fishing poles and crappy golf clubs out there...But there are also about a hundred thousand micro heli pilots out there having a ball to.....I am also told that Micro Helicopters are the fastest grown RC sport at this time....
Ofcourse I could be wrong...Just like you are....but.....
instead of totally bumming this guy out wouldnt it be easier to direct him to the Electric Helicopter area?....where people want to help?
BTW....I love Baseball...
01-14-2005, 05:21 PM
#5
RE: Need help with this heli...please
Radd, its not that we are trying to bum him out, its the fact that I have yet to see (other than yourself) someone get on here and say "I bought this little electric and it rocks." I have seen so many "I took this out of the box and it doesn't work" threads that I would assume they all suck that bad.
I have looked at a little micro myself to fly in the living room. Someone that knows how to set one up and fly it could have fun. Can a rookie take one out of the box and fly it. No Way No How!!!! I don't care how good he is, he is going to destroy it trying to lift it off.
Is he going to destroy or hurt someone with a cheap set of clubs? No
Is he going to destroy or hurt someone with a cheap fishing pole? No
Its not apples to apples, Your comparing apples to grapes here.
With help, Yea, maybe he can get it in the air. Without help, chances are slim.
I have looked at a little micro myself to fly in the living room. Someone that knows how to set one up and fly it could have fun. Can a rookie take one out of the box and fly it. No Way No How!!!! I don't care how good he is, he is going to destroy it trying to lift it off.
Is he going to destroy or hurt someone with a cheap set of clubs? No
Is he going to destroy or hurt someone with a cheap fishing pole? No
Its not apples to apples, Your comparing apples to grapes here.
With help, Yea, maybe he can get it in the air. Without help, chances are slim.
01-14-2005, 05:57 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
See?...that just doesnt make sense.....If that were true I would not know so many people all over the world that would say just the oppisite...I've been flying and teaching micros for about 4 years now....and 4 years ago you would have been right....at least 50% or more gave up after 3 crashes...thats not so today....and as far as crashing out of the box....I have never had a student that followed my lessons carefully that I was in touch with on the web or in person crash before a solid hover...
For that matter when was the last time you saw a total newbie take a nitro out of the box and fly it with out help or help and hours on a sim..??
this is not the only BBS on the internet there are others with many many members.....Many many happy micro members...Infact the reason I have been spending a little time here is because of some of the bad advice I saw on my first visit....I was amazed at how bad some newbies are treated...and discouraged
Common sense will tell you that thousands and thousands of micros are being sold around the world.....if they were unflyable that market would dry up quickly.....yet I just read an article telling me it was the fastest growing RC hobby??....
One thing has remained consistant since the first day I took my micro to the flying field.....and that was Nitro pilots laughing and telling me I wasted my money....
I have said it down through the years and will say it today......IF you can fly a micro helicopter.....you can fly any helicopter......But Nitro pilots cant say the same thing.....I've seen many give up after only 30 seconds....blaming the helicopter and calling it a toy....
If I did not own a bunch of Nitro and Gas helicopters I would have no room to talk...But I can compare to two....and I know the difference very very well...
Sorry you can't see that when someone takes his K-mart fishing pole to the lake ....you get some snob making fun of him and his lack of knowledge.....but it's still true...
For that matter when was the last time you saw a total newbie take a nitro out of the box and fly it with out help or help and hours on a sim..??
this is not the only BBS on the internet there are others with many many members.....Many many happy micro members...Infact the reason I have been spending a little time here is because of some of the bad advice I saw on my first visit....I was amazed at how bad some newbies are treated...and discouraged
Common sense will tell you that thousands and thousands of micros are being sold around the world.....if they were unflyable that market would dry up quickly.....yet I just read an article telling me it was the fastest growing RC hobby??....
One thing has remained consistant since the first day I took my micro to the flying field.....and that was Nitro pilots laughing and telling me I wasted my money....
I have said it down through the years and will say it today......IF you can fly a micro helicopter.....you can fly any helicopter......But Nitro pilots cant say the same thing.....I've seen many give up after only 30 seconds....blaming the helicopter and calling it a toy....
If I did not own a bunch of Nitro and Gas helicopters I would have no room to talk...But I can compare to two....and I know the difference very very well...
Sorry you can't see that when someone takes his K-mart fishing pole to the lake ....you get some snob making fun of him and his lack of knowledge.....but it's still true...
01-14-2005, 06:09 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Here.....this post was just made...minutes ago.....and I give you my word I had no input...other than I was surfing when I saw it...
http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/ubbth...?Number=422901
http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/ubbth...?Number=422901
01-14-2005, 06:18 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
I bought my first micro heli for Christmas, the dreaded Honeybee 2, AND IT ROCKS !!!! True I'm not a total RC novice, racing for over 20 years, flying fixed wing for about 8 months. We have one nitro heli guy at our flying field and he is truely a wonder to behold, but I just wanted something to fly in my living room for cheap. Had the same learning curve as everyone else, way over confident due to hours and hours on G2 and had to order a bunch of new parts (certainly not the heli's fault). Got smart and took some of Radd's advice and all the sudden it locks in. No I can hover over my 5' x 7' accent rug for a long as I like with the biggest grin you can imagine, what a rush. Thanks Radd! My only complaint is the tail motors, I'm on my 4th one, but I do go thru 4 or 5 3 cell 1200 Lipo's each night.
01-15-2005, 11:01 AM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Heli spins to the left because the rotor head spins to the right and to counter the torques, the whole body will spin to the left and that's why the tail rudder comes in to play the role by pushing the tail to the left, thus make the nose go to the right and hopefully balancing the spin. In your case it seemd like the rudder doesn't have enough power or not enough pitch to fight its battle. I am not familiar with your heli, so what you want to do is to adjust the rudder control to give more power somehow, for example: adjust the linkage for more throw that will give more pitch, adjust the gain on the gyro.
Oh now I just did the search and found out exactly what you have...guess what I have one too. The problem with this dual rotor design which supposes to conteract their own torque is that the "FRICTIONs" on each rotor mechanism are NOT the same because the low quality, so as the result it doesn't work.
Here is what I did with mine which first had the same problem as yours (even at full right trim, it still wnated to go left, correct?) First spin each head with your finger (no battery conneted of course!!) and you will feel that the smoothness are NOT the same. I use the rc car bearing oil to lube the moving point (you can even use the WD-40 but don't soak it), next you want to hold it down somehow so that you can "break-in" the rotor head. You may need to do this for several battery packs (mine started to improve after about 5 flights). Remember that to yaw this heli, the control will change the SPEED of either rotor to lower/raise the torque of one rotor so that the counter reaction will work to turn the heli. Even after more than 15 flight, I still have to trim the rudder to almost full right but it is hovering. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do about adjusting the gear mesh, so the best you can do is to look closely and see if there is any defects on any gear teeth, if so carefully remove it with sharp blade.
If you have a gram scale, weigh all blades and balance them.
Hope this help.
Oh now I just did the search and found out exactly what you have...guess what I have one too. The problem with this dual rotor design which supposes to conteract their own torque is that the "FRICTIONs" on each rotor mechanism are NOT the same because the low quality, so as the result it doesn't work.
Here is what I did with mine which first had the same problem as yours (even at full right trim, it still wnated to go left, correct?) First spin each head with your finger (no battery conneted of course!!) and you will feel that the smoothness are NOT the same. I use the rc car bearing oil to lube the moving point (you can even use the WD-40 but don't soak it), next you want to hold it down somehow so that you can "break-in" the rotor head. You may need to do this for several battery packs (mine started to improve after about 5 flights). Remember that to yaw this heli, the control will change the SPEED of either rotor to lower/raise the torque of one rotor so that the counter reaction will work to turn the heli. Even after more than 15 flight, I still have to trim the rudder to almost full right but it is hovering. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do about adjusting the gear mesh, so the best you can do is to look closely and see if there is any defects on any gear teeth, if so carefully remove it with sharp blade.
If you have a gram scale, weigh all blades and balance them.
Hope this help.
01-15-2005, 12:02 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Radd, first let me say that I've seen your website, and I hold a lot of respect for you. If you take a good look at my post, you'll see that I'm saying micro's have their place... They can be enjoyable and just as much fun as any other hobby. MY issue though is with they way they are marketed. In my OPINION they are pushed as being a cheap "replacement" for the larger size helis... Not everyone, but a LOT of these guys are going out spending $250 on a micro because they think they will save money over a larger nitro or electric, and have the exact same quality and flight experience as if they had bought something larger. If they WANT a micro, and understand all the ups and downs to them, then that's great... What I hate to see is the guy that goes and spends his money EXPECTING the same thing as a larger more expensive ship only to get it home and find out thats far from the case. I have no doubt the micro's are the largest growing hobby, and that thousands of them are being sold... I guess what I'm really getting at is this... How many posts do you see on this forum or any others where someone went out bought a Raptor 30 V2, all the fixens, etc... Got it home and thought that it was junk, or they got ripped off, or it "didn't work right" etc? I have flown both micros and nitros as well, the fact is there really is no comparison... If the consumer understands that, then so be it, whatever floats your boat... But if your expecting them to be practically the same, then your in for a wide awakening....
01-17-2005, 08:44 AM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Thanks. Now if you can explain me something about the control that will be great...What's mode I and mode II ? I've been making a lot of adjusts but even at full trohttle the heli doesn't take off.
If someone else have any idea that would be nice too.
If someone else have any idea that would be nice too.
ORIGINAL: tanasit
Heli spins to the left because the rotor head spins to the right and to counter the torques, the whole body will spin to the left and that's why the tail rudder comes in to play the role by pushing the tail to the left, thus make the nose go to the right and hopefully balancing the spin. In your case it seemd like the rudder doesn't have enough power or not enough pitch to fight its battle. I am not familiar with your heli, so what you want to do is to adjust the rudder control to give more power somehow, for example: adjust the linkage for more throw that will give more pitch, adjust the gain on the gyro.
Oh now I just did the search and found out exactly what you have...guess what I have one too. The problem with this dual rotor design which supposes to conteract their own torque is that the "FRICTIONs" on each rotor mechanism are NOT the same because the low quality, so as the result it doesn't work.
Here is what I did with mine which first had the same problem as yours (even at full right trim, it still wnated to go left, correct?) First spin each head with your finger (no battery conneted of course!!) and you will feel that the smoothness are NOT the same. I use the rc car bearing oil to lube the moving point (you can even use the WD-40 but don't soak it), next you want to hold it down somehow so that you can "break-in" the rotor head. You may need to do this for several battery packs (mine started to improve after about 5 flights). Remember that to yaw this heli, the control will change the SPEED of either rotor to lower/raise the torque of one rotor so that the counter reaction will work to turn the heli. Even after more than 15 flight, I still have to trim the rudder to almost full right but it is hovering. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do about adjusting the gear mesh, so the best you can do is to look closely and see if there is any defects on any gear teeth, if so carefully remove it with sharp blade.
If you have a gram scale, weigh all blades and balance them.
Hope this help.
Heli spins to the left because the rotor head spins to the right and to counter the torques, the whole body will spin to the left and that's why the tail rudder comes in to play the role by pushing the tail to the left, thus make the nose go to the right and hopefully balancing the spin. In your case it seemd like the rudder doesn't have enough power or not enough pitch to fight its battle. I am not familiar with your heli, so what you want to do is to adjust the rudder control to give more power somehow, for example: adjust the linkage for more throw that will give more pitch, adjust the gain on the gyro.
Oh now I just did the search and found out exactly what you have...guess what I have one too. The problem with this dual rotor design which supposes to conteract their own torque is that the "FRICTIONs" on each rotor mechanism are NOT the same because the low quality, so as the result it doesn't work.
Here is what I did with mine which first had the same problem as yours (even at full right trim, it still wnated to go left, correct?) First spin each head with your finger (no battery conneted of course!!) and you will feel that the smoothness are NOT the same. I use the rc car bearing oil to lube the moving point (you can even use the WD-40 but don't soak it), next you want to hold it down somehow so that you can "break-in" the rotor head. You may need to do this for several battery packs (mine started to improve after about 5 flights). Remember that to yaw this heli, the control will change the SPEED of either rotor to lower/raise the torque of one rotor so that the counter reaction will work to turn the heli. Even after more than 15 flight, I still have to trim the rudder to almost full right but it is hovering. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do about adjusting the gear mesh, so the best you can do is to look closely and see if there is any defects on any gear teeth, if so carefully remove it with sharp blade.
If you have a gram scale, weigh all blades and balance them.
Hope this help.
01-17-2005, 12:53 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Mode 1 and Mode 2 refer to how the controls are set up... We "U.S." types like to fly mode 2... Basically that is this... (I'll name by airplane controls since that's the general way of describing the controls)...
Left Stick:
Up/Down: Throttle / Collective - Controls the collective pitch of the blades (angle of attack at ALL points around the cycle) Throttle can vary depending on flight mode, but in normal mode Up increases throttle and collective pitch, and down decreases throttle and collective pitch.
Left/Right: Rudder - Controls the tail rotor pitch. Left moves tail to the right (nose to the left) and Right moves tail to the left (nose to the right).
Right Stick:
Up/Down: Elevator - Controls the cyclic pitch for fore/aft movement. (angle of attack at foreward or rear portion of the cycle) (side note just to confuse you. TECHNICALLY the angle of attack of the blades for the fore/aft cyclic is changed when the blades are in the left/right position... This is because gyroscopic precession makes the inputs not take effect until 90 degrees after its fed in.
Left/Right: Aileron - Controls the cyclic pitch for left/right movement. (angle of attack at left or right portion of the cycle) (again, it's actually put IN at the fore / aft positions)
Confused yet? [:-] Left Stick, push up, heli goes vertically up.. pull down, heli goes vertically down, push left nose swings to the left, push right, nose swings to the right. Right Stick, push up, heli moves forward (in direction of nose), pull down, heli moves back, push left, heli moves left, push right, heli moves right...
Got it? Good..
Left Stick:
Up/Down: Throttle / Collective - Controls the collective pitch of the blades (angle of attack at ALL points around the cycle) Throttle can vary depending on flight mode, but in normal mode Up increases throttle and collective pitch, and down decreases throttle and collective pitch.
Left/Right: Rudder - Controls the tail rotor pitch. Left moves tail to the right (nose to the left) and Right moves tail to the left (nose to the right).
Right Stick:
Up/Down: Elevator - Controls the cyclic pitch for fore/aft movement. (angle of attack at foreward or rear portion of the cycle) (side note just to confuse you.
TECHNICALLY the angle of attack of the blades for the fore/aft cyclic is changed when the blades are in the left/right position... This is because gyroscopic precession makes the inputs not take effect until 90 degrees after its fed in.Left/Right: Aileron - Controls the cyclic pitch for left/right movement. (angle of attack at left or right portion of the cycle) (again, it's actually put IN at the fore / aft positions)
Confused yet? [:-] Left Stick, push up, heli goes vertically up.. pull down, heli goes vertically down, push left nose swings to the left, push right, nose swings to the right. Right Stick, push up, heli moves forward (in direction of nose), pull down, heli moves back, push left, heli moves left, push right, heli moves right...
Got it? Good..
01-17-2005, 01:09 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
Thank you. Now the funny part, Do I have to reset the trims everytime I recharge the batterie ? And what about the throttle ? Do I have to put the control all the way down before charge to gain full throttle capacity ?
01-17-2005, 07:36 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
The reason theres almost no posts about a beginner having problems with a raptor 30 is because they went to a field and got help. Myself am kind of scared of nitro powered helis(reminds me of an up-side down lawn mower). I'll eventually get myself a nitro but untill then, MICROS ROCK!! I love the way they look when your spinning them up on the kitchen table a couple of seconds before take-off plus you dont have to count your fingers after your done flying like with the nitro birds
concausa, you shoudln't have to reset your trims every time, just when your heli doesn't track straight. The battery souldn't have any affect on trims and control limits.
Happy flying!
plus you dont have to count your fingers after your done flying like with the nitro birdsconcausa, you shoudln't have to reset your trims every time, just when your heli doesn't track straight. The battery souldn't have any affect on trims and control limits.
Happy flying!
01-17-2005, 10:08 PM
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RE: Need help with this heli...please
I own a honey bee,a.Trex,a Shogun and for those big bad boys and their big Heli's I have a JR Voyager E that runs on a Thunder power 3s3p 6000mAH lipo and that is 60 amps boys this from an old retired Electrician(ME) and I would not trade it for all the Nitro Guzzling raptors in the world.I ran nitro monster trucks,miserable noisy things and the heli's are not much better and I hate the smell of nitro.Radd is a really straight shooter and he helped me learn and he is right. Nitro boys think they are the best well I hate to burst your bubble but I can do just as much with my Voyager E as you can with the Heli that sounds like a weed whacker.And I will bet that after a years use I will have spent less and had just as much fun as you.
