Reflex100

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Radd

Wholley Jumping ....whatcha mah call its.......120 CCPM, Ali head, Ball in swash,driven tail ( metal gears) and with a brushless motor and controller.....that sucker is only $199.....I QUIT!!!.....I JUST CANT KEEP UP.....wonder how the daul drive thingy works?( Must be an auto hub?)..

Maybe I can put the boom on one of my hummingbirds?

Reflex100

.

_Buzz_

The tail blades are running the wrong way !!!!

Radd

I saw that...but you never know whats going on nowa days

_Buzz_

Yeah....OK...sure ya did.....

I'm off to bed now....maybe I could die quietly in my sleep. I've told Jenny to send (or bring) my heli stuff big guy.

rusirius

No worries!

I doubt it... At least I hope not!

No, honestly I don't believe you did, HOWEVER I have seen MANY posts on here either from people who DO want to fly larger scale stuff and bought a micro because of the money... Or others who recommend they get a micro first since it's cheaper... But no, I don't ever recall seeing you say that...

I agree...

Not exactly sure what you mean by that...

I don't know that that is a true statement... IN this sense... I don't hold ANY expectations that this micro will be every bit as good as a nitro... (though by some of the posts on here sometimes, I think some newbies would hold that expectation) I KNOW better... and I KNEW better before starting this little adventure. Let me state it another way. I don't JUST fly large nitro helis... I also fly airplanes.... I don't own just ONE type of airplane... I have a pattern plane for aerobatics and precision pattern flying... I have two 3D planes, for 3D aerobatics... I have a p51-D scale for sport flying... And I even have a superstar trainer I keep around mainly for others wanting to give it a whirl with a buddy cord... My point is... Each of those different types of planes have different "aspects" to them... They all have one thing in common... They fly... But that's pretty close to where the differences end... I don't take off my twist or fun-air (both 3D planes) and expect to fly extremely high speed low inverted passes over the runway... I wouldn't take the pattern plane and expect to do harriers... I wouldn't take the trainer and expect to do torque rolls... See where I'm going with this? Just because a micro flies differently, or has different aspects to it than a large scale nitro or electric, that doesn't mean I won't have an attration for it, or that I will think of it as toy like...

I think this is in response to my suggestion that the "micro" in question should work equally as well as a trainer and yet still be capable of aerobatics, etc... The reason for that statement is ... well... basically what you said... If I would have went along with your "once you reach the level of your ability, you should move on to a better machine" I would have had a fortune invested in the first two weeks... Let me explain... I have very good hand-eye co-ordination. I "learn" the feel of things very quickly. I used a simulator for about 2 weeks off and on before my first nitro was complete. The first day, the first flight for that matter, my "training gear" fell apart... So I removed it before it MADE me crash... I spent about 10 minutes perfecting my hover... My second flight was doing forward flight... I think it was my 4th flight when I started doing loops.... Rolls the next flight... Flips... By the 10th flight or so I was hanging it inverted. Tic-Tocs, etc... My point here isn't "hey, look how great i am" or "hey, look how fast i learn"... And I know not everyone moves at that speed. HOWEVER... What IS my point here is that my ol' reliable raptor was with me every step of the way.... The only "upgrade" I ever had to do to it was replacing the stock woodies with fiberglass... And even that wasn't "required" to do what I was doing, it just added that extra bit of "bite" I was missing. Look back through a lot of the posts on here... Most of the people who "defend" the micros, tend to use the "they are so much cheaper" aspect... Not to mention a LOT of the people I've seen buy them again are doing it to "save money"... Here's a couple quotes pulled from others posts in the Heli Beginners forum...
Anyway, I think we're kinda on the same side without really knowing it.. LOL... I think we both agree that if you want to fly indoors, obviously micros are the way to go, if you want to fly outdoors, larger scale is definately the way to go. I think we also agree that to do it "right", in the end, your probably going to end up spending just as much regardless of which way you go... Probably cheaper with micro, but not by much... I think we also both agree that these cheap knockoffs and ebay deals are killing the micro hobby in the minds of many people, because again they try to buy "cheap" (usually because thats one of their motivations in the first place for even going with micros) and then end up being very disappointed because they've bought "Crap"...

I agree...

I have a love of flight period... I don't care if it's indoors, outdoors, or by jumping off the roof of my garage... True at the moment I would rather fly outdoors... When it's good weather I will probably ALWAYS prefer to fly outside... That doesn't mean I couldn't appreciate flying indoors as well... The main reason up until this point that I don't is because I didn't believe it was economically practical to do so. By that, I mean if I'm going to spend $600 or more on a machine, I'm gonna get a larger scale one... For the times when I can't fly outside, it's not practical for me to spend an exhuberant amount of money for something to fly indoors.

No, budget isn't really a deciding factor... It's just that SOOO many times (as seen above) "money" is stated as a reason to choose micros over nitros.. Because they are so much "cheaper" to buy, fly, and repair... Will they both fly the same? No... Of course not... UNFORTUNATELY It's my belief that a LOT of people who buy them are a target of marketing which leads them to BELIEVE it will... But that's another issue entirely...

I agree... Again however, I can't tell you the number of posts where people want to fly helis... The decide to get a micro because it's "cheap"... In this instance, wouldn't a sim be cheaper? AND offer a broader range of flight? (planes, micros, larger scale, etc...?) Wouldn't it be safe to say that if someone is just STARTING out in the RC hobby, and has a VERY limited budget... They like helis, but don't have the money right away for a larger scale, that it would be better for them to invest $200 in a sim and save their money for a larger scale (Assuming the don't want to only fly indoors), than to spend $200 for a micro in the hopes of learning to fly and eventually moving on to a larger scale once they save the money?

Again I agree, but that is exactly the kind of illogic I encounter on here often.

As stated above, you'll find I have no hopes of it performing like a large displacement machine. As for the "hope to look for problems". Honestly, I'm a bigger man than that. I also wouldn't have invested the kind of money I just invested just to "prove a point"... As stated in my original post, I'm actually HOPING to be proven wrong... I really do want to be impressed with this machine... After seeing and hearing so many horror stories of people getting on of these things and having it fall apart, or the ESC smoke, or a motor smoke, etc.. sometimes before they even get the first flight, it would bring me great joy to find even a SINGLE machine I could recommend to someone that was cost effective that would NOT be plagued by such problems.

I agree... My 3D planes were bought after my pattern plane... Just because I could fly precision aerobatics didn't mean I bought my first 3D plane and expected to take it out of the box and fly perfect 3D right from the start. I knew it would take time. It was a different feel, and a different style of flying all together. My main "initial" comparisons (and actually MANY of my comparisons overall) will NOT be comparing a nitro to the micro... It will be comparing the micro to what I would consider "junk"... If I take it out of the box, fly it for 5 minutes and the ESC smokes itself, I'd consider that junk...

Agreed...

And I have no expectations of it feeling the same, or NOT having a learning curve...

Understood... And even expected...

Understood...

Again though, that would have defeated my point... Right now I wouldn't recommend a micro to anyone... The reason being is from everything that I've experienced myself and from what I've heard others experience... Again, MOST people I see asking about the micros are doing so because they are cheap... My usual response is hey, if you want to fly helis, and not just indoors, then don't spend your money on a micro... Buy a sim, and or save your money for a larger scale... For these people it wouldn't make sense to tell them to spend $600 or more on a micro, when they could get a 30 size nitro for the same price... If they are only looking for indoor flight, then absolutely! it would serve them well to get a $600 or more micro.... Though again it's getting beyond the "cheap" aspect...

agreed!

no doubt!

I've been saying that all along...

That's what I'm hoping...

I'm sure...

Absolutely not...

Only with a re-breather on...

Or even a breezy day without hop-ups or a more expensive micro...

ABSOLUTELY!!!

No No No.. I think in some respects you mis-understood me or my motives... I think we're very much on the same page here. As long as this thing doesn't blow up 2 minutes out of the box, I'm sure I'll be very happy with it, as well as happy to relate my views, opinions, and experiences with others.... If nothing else, I think this thread will DEFINATELY help a LOT of newbies out there that may be considering getting into the hobby one way or the other.. And THAT after all is MORE than I could hope for!!! If even ONE person finds this info helpful, then I'll feel more than rewarded that my time was well spent..

Nope, not at all...

See above...

_Buzz_

Rosirius....take a breathe !!!!! LOL

I'm pretty sure of what Radd meant by this.(See we might be 3500 miles apart, but he's like my little brother !!!)

Most people who learn to fly micros do it first, before they can fly any other heli. This means that if they pick up another larger heli it's easier and therefore safer. You're gonna know you can fly a heli and may not be expecting failure. Confidence and lack of "Fear Walls" is the key to advancing in micro flying, but too much confidence too soon will cost you dearly.

This is another reason for starting micros with a fixed pitch set-up. You crash it, more often than not you just pop it back together, "bend" things back into place and fly the little monster again. If you did actually break something you CA it back on a go again. CP machines don't do that, they explode if they hit.

rusirius

Ahhh.. Gotcha... I don't know this will be a problem in my case to be honest. (Gee I'm modest aren't I? ) Like I said, I am a VERY fast learner. I'm not over-confident, I have no illusions of pulling this thing out of the box and flying obstical courses or anything... In fact, if it flies anything like the other two micros I attempted... Then I'm sure it'll take me a little bit just to get it to hover... Again though, I pick it up fast, and generally easily "recognize" when I'm ready to push myself a little further without recklessly endangering the bird..

I am however glad you pointed that out about the CPs though. That probably would have been one of my first posts if something does happen. (you know, the whole "everyone says these things are cheap to repair because you just use a bit of CA and tada, but mine exploded into 1000 fragments of goo and now I'm paying xxx to repair it..." But it's easy for me to visualize exactly what your talking about though (less mechanics, less head speed, etc.... so less damage).

Radd

Any chance you might ask them to swap you for the new Elite with the driven tail?....I believe it would be worth the struggle as well as being close to the machine that is more up your flying alley...Your radio and gear would work already...

If your like me your anxious about ripping into the box...

but we both know from all the posts...a pic board works very well on an FP machine with two cells...But on a CP machine with a driven tail especially with a brushless and more cells....horse power is almost unlimited....and very dependable....if the mechanics are put together well and gear mesh is good you can wind that sucker up to around 2000 rpm and you will be shocked,quite happy and definitely stand back before you flip it inverted off the deck...( of course thats hoping this new model is sound....but I would say since its evolving it should be...)

I did not read about servos though...and you would need a gyro....Heres hoping you already have a 240...please please please...

Radd

ok.....just to top off my image of a micro flyer.....He's like that H-o electric train set building weirdo down the street...you know .....the guy that has his whole basement converted to a mountainside with tunnels etc.....He spends his evenings painting with a magnifying glass...and is secretly a serial killer...CAUSE HE'S abit strange anyway.....

The guys that fly around here have no idea who Radd is....And I dont tell them about him.....they dont want to talk about micros or electrics....I usually take nitro to the field and dont bring up the subject.....I've learned cause....I always use to get the glassey eyed stare when I was excited about something to do with them....

But lately.....a few of them have let it peep out that they bought one.....ya know?.....just for winter????.....end of conversation.....

Those kind of people (micro-any-aics ) could careless what other people like or even how they compare to anything......They cant hear the wife nagging past the tweezers or the crickets for the hum of the battery chargers at 2am....because they have micro focus.......

because they have micro focus.......

because they have micro focus.......


I hope you get the bug .......just for that reason.....and not to cut corners, safety or expense, or a learning tool......But because its totally awesome to fly in your house......across the railroad tracks of your fake mountain sides......LOL........whaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaa.....LOL......( GET IT ??...aint that cool? it's imagination.... )


I need my pills......

rusirius

Day 3: January 26th, 2005...

It arrives... A quick note to Radd. I see where your coming from, but I think I'll hang on to this one for the moment... If I like it, great... If not, or I look to upgrade it later down the road I'll just sell it and upgrade... Reason being... If I do as you state "catch the bug"... Then I'll probably end up getting something a little more expensive anyway... So anywho.... here goes....

Got home a bit early today to find my box as promised delivered to my door step. Upon opening it, I have to admit that I was VERY impressed. As far as Century goes, this was the one I found on a "sub page" that listed for $269 while everywhere else on their page it was listed at $349... They never gave me a bit of hassle about the price, or tried to claim it was a mistake or whatever... In fact, I don't remember seeing anything about this on the page when I ordered, but they threw in a crash kit (you been talking to them Radd???) as well as a set of training gear... Once again Century shows me that they really have things together and are a company I can trust... On to the bird... Again I have to admit that I am impressed... It's obviously NOT the same high quality as a nitro, but it didn't cost nitro prices either... I am however impressed overall. It's much better built than others I have seen in the past, and definately better than I expected... Looking at the manual again impressed me tremendously... LOTS of full color photos with great amounts of details on the finishing of the construction and set up... Everything is very clear and concise yet contains plenty of detail. Absolutely no pigeon english here... The included servos, reciever, mixer, and gyro seem to be of decent quality, though I'll know more once I get further into the setup (right now I've only taken it out of the box and examined it.)

I do see what Radd was mentioning about the blades... The ones that came with it and the crash kit are flat bottom. I also notice that as is, it doesn't have much negative pitch. I'm hoping there will be a way to adjust that later on. (and yeah, I did order a new set of blades the day after the heli was ordered... I actually ordered them just to have in case of an accident (didn't realize it was coming with a crash kit), but glad I did since the ones I ordered are fully semmetrical...

By 240 I'm assuming you mean a gy240 gyro? I don't have a spare gyro around, but it DID come with one... It's a century, not sure which model, but it IS supposedly heading hold...

Okay, off to the build.... I'll post more when I know more...

Radd

rusirius..since it will be impossible for you to keep it on the ground tonight....do me one favor....and put some wheel collars on the fly bar next to each fly paddle.....this will increase stability and enjoyment....


Dont forget to hold it by the flybar to balance... and make sure there is no slop in the linkages to the holes in the servo horns....If you get any glitches just move the wires around a tad and keep them clear of the motor.....its a generator you know.....

rusirius

What makes you say that???

I'll try that!

Yup.. Did all that..

Day 3: January 26th, 2005 8:35pm

Got her all built and battery charged... Setup was pretty straight forward, though I could see it definately being a struggle for a newbie... Though obviously setting up ANY heli can be a struggle for a newbie! Again the instructions were very detailed on the bird itself. EXCEPT one thing I noticed... The instructions mentioned not to overtighten the blades, but that it should be tight enough to not allow them to move... A newbie would have taken this completely the wrong way and tightened them too tight for it to naturally set the lag and lead for the blades... I'm not sure why they wouldn't recommend setting them a little looser anyway since the size and height of the blades should make a boom strike highly unlikely anyway...

First flights: Threw it in the middle of the kitchen floor and spooled up. The first thing I noticed was that it wasn't effected by ground effect NEARLY as much as the other two micros I had tried. Is this because it's CP not FP??? I'm not sure. Maybe it's just the difference between "junk" and something better... The "antenna" coil kept popping out of the mounts on me. Had to fix it up with a bit of CA... Instructions never mentioned it, but I'd say it's almost a requirement. At one point I THOUGHT I had blown the tail motor and was about to be really disappointed... A closer look however revealed that the plastic "bushing" that holds the shaft in had allowed the gear to move away from the pinion on the motor. Got it back and used a pin-drop of CA on both ends to secure it better.

Right now my biggest problem is the tail... It seems to be pretty crazy and wild.. I'm going to ASSUME this probably has to do with the gyro setup since the instructions mentioned NOTHING about setting it up (it appears to have a gain control on it)... I'm going to see what info I can find on it and see if I can get it tuned a little better. Otherwise, except for the fridge trying to pick a fight with it once (fortunately the ground intervened and split them up JUST in the nic of time), it seems to fly fairly well. I have to say once again that so far I'm very impressed compared to what I saw with the others. I hope I can get this tail problem worked out a little more, then I can do a few more tests to see how the stability is... I'll go throw some wheel collars on the flybar too...

Unfortunately I forgot to order extra BEC connectors... So my quick charger is of no use... Still have an hour left on the second charge... will post again later....

Radd

I have nothing to go on with your gyro but...at times with my micro CP's I turned my 240's down to as much as 20%...once everything is solid and tweaked out I can turn them up...But this was on driven tails...

I would think your gyro is pre-controler?....

DONT HIT THE FRIDGE ON THE FIRST NIGHT!!.......OK??.....

rusirius

Day 3... Second Flight....
My first thought is... DAMN THESE BATTERIES!!! Seems like just when I'm starting to get somewhere I run outta gas... I would have to say that an upgrade to lipos is not even a question... It's almost a neccesity... Which of course adds $30 - $40 on to the price tag... I just ripped the BEC off the stock charger and will use my triton this time around. Hopefully that will reduce the time a bit...

Contrary to my initial belief, upon getting more info, the gyro that was included is NOT a heading hold gyro... That sucks... I played around with the gain settings, improved it a little, but it's still a bit squirely... I even tried using some revo mixing to max up for it at certain throttle settings... I could probably get it closer, but it seems to be in the gyro itself... (i.e. If I have it in a hover, give a little left rudder it starts spinning to the left, and stays that way even if letting off the rudder input... If I then give it some right rudder, it'll slow down... Stop... Then start spinning the other way... but it just keeps going that direction again... Very strange... If it were a nitro I'd think the t/r pitch servo was getting "stuck" at it's extremes... Or in the case of a heading hold, that it was not sensing the movement so it kept trying to give input in the last direction regardless of heading... I'll continue to try to work it out (once my pack charges again! arg!)

Otherwise it's only got two packs run through it, but it seems to be holding up well. It hasn't destroyed itself anyway...

More to come...

rusirius

Pre-controller? Not sure what you mean unless you mean before the mixer... Yeah, the reciever plugs into the gyro, gyro plugs into the mixer...

I wouldn't have, except for it tried to move right out in front of me. (damn things on casters.. ) All is well though... set her down with the blades about 1/4" from it..

HRMMMM I just realized... I may have some insight on the tail.... Maybe it saw my ceiling fan and was trying to immitate it?

rusirius

Day 3, Third Flight...
Still struggling greatly with the tail... I'm about ready to rip the 401 out of my rappy and give that a go.. Next go round I'm gonna try shifting my pitch and throttle curves... Maybe I don't have enough throttle (hence enough head speed) and it's throwing the mixer off (since it apparently has revo built in). I dunno...

Anyway, hitting the sack for now.... More posts to come...

rusirius

CRAP CRAP CRAP!! As much as I've been talking about how good these directions were.. They screwed me up with the gyro... That was my tail problem... The instructions clearly state to install the gyro in a specific orientation... Problem is, that's wrong... I had to flip it 180 and now the tail is responding much better... Ran out of juice just about the time I figured it out, so I'm going to bed and once again the pack is on the charger (only taking 30 minutes now instead of 90.. That's a bit better.. More to come...

Radd

WAKE UP!!....GET OUTTA BED.....SEE I TOLD YA!....... a real micro-any-anic is up until at least 2am...IT'S only Midnight..

you gotta a pm...with my number...

How does the thing work if you hold it in your hand?...

does the gyro spin the tail if you move it suddenly?

how does the mixer work if you take the gyro out of the equation...

how are the pots on the mixer set?

trims zero'ed

Surely gyro is pointed right way around??...

usually higher headspeed makes things worse

I'LL BE BACK......... NOW GET UP!!....

Radd

oh sure...now that I'm awake.....

Radd

I missed your gryo post......MY STOMACH IS TIED UP IN A KNOT AND YOU DO A ROOKIE THING LIKE THAT???.....

WHERE'S THE FRIGGIN ROLAIDS???

you aint gona sleep and you know it!.....JUST DONT BREAK IT!......YET!......lol....

I'm going back out into the shop for a minute.......

Radd

Ok...I'm back.....

you had me going there for a minute.....

whats it doing now....??

I'm sure you went back to average radio set up again ???

WAKE UP


.....WAKE UP!.......OR I'M GONA KILL YOU!!.....

FUN HUH?????

Radd

WELL!!...I'll be!?......just when things were getting exciting he bailed on me......

BIG BABY ....COWARD...WEEENIE....SISSY....FRAIDY CAT....

We weren't even inverted yet.....LOL

Goodnight youstinkinslob....

rusirius

... Well... that there "rookie" thing I did was EXACTLY what the instructions told me to do! Sad part is, I wonder how many people are out there trying to fly theirs right now thinking helicopters are "impossible" to fly, when all that's wrong is they've installed the gyro wrong... After I started thinking about the way it was operating (Described in earlier post) I thought "hrmmm.... Don't suppose???" So I held it up in my hand and turned it a bit.... Sure enough the gyro was nice enough to "assist" my movements!!! AH HA!!! So anyway, all seemed to be much better for the 30 seconds of battery power I had left after that...

I'll get a few more flights in tonight and we'll see if I can get her trimmed out a bit better... At the moment I think my elevator and aileron trims are all the way back and to the right.... or almost all the way...

OHHH and one other comment about the instructions....

There is a small section on breaking in the motor (optional)... ACTUALLY it should be entitled "breakin in the brushes"... It's a little trick I haven't seen since back in my RC Car days... Basically you get a glass of water, connect a battery to a motor to get it cranking, and dunk it in the water for a few seconds... Seats the brushes like nothing else... HOWEVER!!! In the instructions it says to leave the motor running in the water for 5 minutes... I can tell you right now, if you did that you probably wouldn't have any brushes left!!! As I said, I remember cutting brand new brushes in with about 5 to 10 seconds in water... And even then the water was dark grey from all that had been cut... Not sure what they were thinking there....