Po_Helo

Hello,

I recently purchased a Mini Dragon fly. Which has been alot of fun, however with the upgrades that have been recomended by both online reading and my new favorite place (the hobby shop) it occurs to me that I need to go nitro.

I relly have nothing against electric, and Ill probably over time actually upgrade what I have to play around in my house, garage, shop, etc.. But it is tax time and I've got some money saved for 'extra', between those two have around $2500 to invest. I used to play alot of paintball (and for those who dont know, a good tournament setup would cost $1500 - $2500 for just the marker, not including travel cost for out of state tournaments). What I want to know is what would be a good setup that I could crash and econmicaly replace parts? I've heard alot of people talk about the Heli itself. But Im also looking for a radio, reciver, servos, fuel, tools, etc.. I honestly dont know. I dont want to go out and buy whatever the best is, but rather what would be the best for my skill level. If I have to upgrade to a new whatever 2,3,6 months later that is ok as well. I know I should buy a good radio as some are programable to hold settings for multiple setups. I'm not sure what size kit to buy? Roughtly how long it takes to build these kits without ever having done it before. What sort of problems that occur that could be easily fixed by having x tool or talking to y person.

I like my hobby shop well enough, and I've talked with them. Its not that I dont trust them or feel they want to 'screw' me in anyway. Its just nice to compare their answers to those enthusiasts online. The closer those two opinions are, the better I feel about my purchase.

In summary, if you had around $2500 when you first got into the sport what would you wish you had/did to make it a bit easier and more fruitfull experiance?

Thank you,
Po

stefanletzow

What about a Raptor 50 ?
Try www.heliproz.com
if you decide buying any raptor, visit www.raptortechnique.com

Raptor 50 v2 combo, with upgrades: http://www4.mailordercentral.com/hel...er=101450HYPER
Raptor 50 v2 combo, without upgrades: http://www4.mailordercentral.com/hel...mber=101450W50

Futaba radio 9CH
good servos

Futaba 401 gyro with 9254 servo: http://www4.mailordercentral.com/hel...?number=169840

visit www.heliproz.com and www.raptortechnique.com

Sao

Like the man said Raptor 50


SHHH dont tell my electric buddies i said that!

_Buzz_

Sao...."IT'S OUT"....just wait till I get back to the Ikarus board !!! LOL

OK, I'll let you off the hook, just this once.

I'd have to say Raptor 50 too , but my preference would be for the JR X3810ADT radio, except I think the numbers are switched around a bit on your side of the pond.

As regards servos, if you're gonna be doing "World class 3D" then obviously you're gonna need some pretty good stuff, if you're sport flying then almost any reasonable servos will be great. The receiver needs to be PCM ideally, then you can set "failsafes" and get better overall reception.
Fuel...I use Model Techniks Bekra 10 fully synthetic.
The engine....well they always say "you get what you pay for", but I've got a Raptor 30 (wish I'd gone for the 50) with a TT39H engine and it's been wicked...never had a moments flight problem with it...so I'll leave that one to someone else.

Wally_Gator

Just got into the sport myself...

This is what I did and could have done more with your budget...

Radio... JR 9303 Excellent radio..
Servos.. JR 8311 Digital servos. I plan on using them on a bigger heli later.
The 811 servos will do fine for a 50 size heli.

Gyro. Futaba GY401 and 9254 servo.

Heli... Heliproz' Hyper Raptor 50 Combo.
This is a Raptor 50 with alot of basic upgrades.
It also has the O.S. 50 SX-h Hyper engine.

All of the above will set you back close to $1600.00, then throw ina crash kit or two
and a flight sim. You will have money left for your field support kit.

Heli proz did me well and I will go back.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

The raptor 50 is a good starter. The 60 is a little more money and is more stable. Its bigger so you can see it higher. Parts cost a little more, but not bad. I prefer the 60s.

As for the radio, I prefer the Futaba 9C. It is one of the best all around radios I have ever used. I set up a JR for a friend this summer and didn't like the programming in it. It was nowhere near as friendly as the futaba to program and the instruction book was almost worthless. Its a good radio though. Just not as easy to program. If you have someone around that knows it or the futaba, get the one that you can get help with. It makes it so much easier. If you stay with a radio that is the same brand as the guys you fly with, you can borrow parts when you need to and they can help you set it up.

I have used many of the engines available at one time or another. In the last few helis I have run OS and Thunder Tiger. The TT engine ran as well as the OS and I didn't see any advantage to either. Both were good and performed about the same. Had 2 rappy 60s, one with an OS and one with a TT and they both did everything I threw at them. Can't say as I noticed any more power in one or the other. Either engine you get would make you happy.

Good luck, its a fun hobby. Get help setting it up and testing it. It will save you a lot of frusteration and headaches.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

Stefan pretty much summed up the setup I would recommend (it's what I started with)...

Raptor 50V2 with an OS .50 SX-H engine (or the new "Hyper" version)
Futaba 9CHP (the "Super" version is out now with improved firmware)
Futaba GY401/S9254 gyro/servo combo
Futaba S9252 servos for cyclic and collective
Futaba S3001 servo for throttle

I also got some good quality field equipment... when all was said and done, I spent about $1800. I can't think of anything I would have done differently, this setup was very easy to learn on, and RaptorTechnique.com had great assembly and setup instructions for this setup.

WhtBronco

I spent $1500 on my Raptor 50 V2 kit with TT50 engine, JR8103 radio, 811 servos, 401/9254 gyro combo and some tools.

If I got another radio, or had known it was coming out, I'd have the JR9303.

I'd say get the R50 as well and save the rest of the money for upgrades if you ever want them or crash repairs. The R50 is not real expensive to repair as helis go. The only reason I'd get another heli is if the local heli fliers are flying something else, like the JR Venture or Kyosho Caliber. 60 size helis may be more stable and are easier to see, by a little but they also cost a lot more. besides the 50 size helis are already over powered they are really 30 size helis with 50 size engines. When you take a 60 size heli to a 90 size engine to get big time power to weight ratio like the 50’s you are talking a lot of money. Several of the 90 kits on the market would cost upwards of $3k to setup.

If you get a Raptor, and even if you don't, spend some time reading www.raptortechnique.com. There is a wealth of great info on that site.

Po_Helo

This is alot of good information, and I really appreciate it. So far here is what I am gathering

Raptor 50 would be my best heli.
Between reading up on them a bit, talking with the hobby shop, and getting some positive feedback on the forums. I will definatly go this route.

Radio:
Seems that I should go to the local fly area and see what those guys are setup with. Picking the common radio would allow for the most support from the local experts.
However there was one radio(I forget which) that was all digital trim, accept one model for the throtte its still the old school way.

Engine:
OS or TT whichever one might have a slight price break, however they both run equaly well.

Servos:
The Futaba's seem to be a very popular servo and Gyro pair

Crash Kit:
Should get one or two of these for the Raptor 50

Tools/Field Kit:
Go with what the hobby shop says? Not really sure what I need aside of some allens, small screwdriver set, needle nose. Today at lunch might be a good idea to go and talk with them get some of this stuff ordered.

Another question. ARF or Pro Kit? While writting this I think I may have answered my own questions, which is build it from the ground up. This way Ill have a better understanding of how the whole setup works and when I goto the field for the first time. Be a little better prepared to understand what is being taught to me about balance and other config. I also need to get my AMA(I think thats the name) application in so that I can fly at the designated popular flying parks.

Thank you,
Po

WhtBronco

Yeap get the kit so you'll know how to fix it. If you get the R50 kit with the TT50 engine included it's a good bit cheaper than the OS. I went this route per the LHS owner's recommendation and I am very glad I did. The TT50 engine has been flawless.

The JR 8103 radio has an old style trim on the throttle. You need either the old stlye trim lever or a throttle kill button so you can kill the engine remotely. I have radios with both and don't have a real preference.

Tools:
ball link pliers from LHS.
ball link sizing tool from LHS.
snap ring pliers cheap from auto parts store or Home Depot.
ball end allen wrenches cheap from Home Depot in a set of 42 wrenches both SAE and metric.
Nice flat and philip small screw drivers. A pair of 1/2 size from Stanley at Home Depot for $2.50.

You'll also need a starter shaft.
Electric starter and glow plug igniter unless you fly glow planes.
Battery for the starter.
Fuel and fuel pump.

Since you have the money do yourself a favor and get a 12v powered field charger for the radio system. I use the Hobbico Quick Field Charger MKII. It's $50 and will charge both the RX and TX at the same time in about 10 minutes. Helis really use the battery quickly.

A multimeter with a load tester built in is nice to have as well. Hobbico has a nice unit for this again at about $30.

If you decide you want training gear get 2 3/8" dowels and a hula-hoop and make it up. I got the $17 carbon fiber rod training gear from HeliMax and it caused my R50 to shake violently. Others I know had the same results. I switched to the hula-hoop and it fixed that.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

You can get good kits from heliproz, or go with the local shop. You will need good allen wrenches, some good metric open end wrenches, locktite (do not get it in a bearing), and if you don't have the field equipt, you will need starter, glow plug lighter, fuel pump and the norm. You can find that stuff used a lot.

As for kit or ARF, your choice, either is fine. If you put it together, you will know it, but if you break it, you will have to take it apart to fix it and will learn it. Either way is good. best is to find someone that knows what they are doing. Saves you a ton of problems and you can get help when you need it.

Hope you enjoy it. Its a great hobby.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

RaptorTechnique has good setup info for a number of radios, including the 9C... if you don't have a local heli expert to help you out, keep that in mind... be sure whatever radio you get is covered on the RaptorTechnique website, or a local heli guy knows how to help you out with it.

For servos, get 70oz-in torque or higher for the 50V2, and digitals are highly recommended... the Futaba S9252s are digital and have 90oz-in of torque.

I've heard from a number of sources that the OS .50 has more power than the TT .50, but the price you pay is runtime... the OS .50 sucks fuel faster than the TT .50. Personally, I'm sold on OS, now, but I've heard that the TT .50 runs well.

Definitely get the kit and build it. I really wanted a prebuilt one initially, but a local guy told me to build it so I knew how to troubleshoot problems and fix it after a crash, and boy was he right! I built mine from a kit, and have had no problems troubleshooting mechanical problems or rebuilding after a crash. There have been a number of guys in this forum that bought an ARF or used/prebuilt Raptor, and have been clueless on how to fix some very simple problems. RaptorTechnique has some pretty good info on common mechanical problems as well (clutch coming loose and running up into the clutch bell, etc.)

A good quality metric allen wrench driver set is a good investment... driver handles are nicer than the L-shaped wrenches, but those will do too... just get good quality wrenches so the smaller one's don't strip out on you.

Po_Helo

Again thank you for all the input. I know have a better idea of what tools I need now. On the bright side, I just purchased and installed G3. Now I have a decent trainer (it was this or reflex and I hear 50/50 on which is better). Hopefully this will help keep my replacment and repair to a minimum when my order comes in next week.

-Po

WhtBronco

The sim was the best investment you could make hands down. It will save you a great deal of time and money in learning and in the future. I fly my G2 much more than my real models, sadly but it has taught me many things that would have been expensive to learn at the field.

Wally_Gator

I will say this about Real Flight. It was and is great for helping me to learn.
I would suggest that you buy your radio and hook it up to real flight.
My JR 9303 is soo much better for controlling the sim than what it came with.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

I have just been using the RealFlight controller, myself... even though I have a Futaba 9C. It's just convenient and easy to use...

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I just use the controller that came with it too. Seems to work just fine for me and easier than hooking up my 9C every time.

WhtBronco

I agree. I setup my JR662 to work with the G2 sim. Tried it 2 or 3 times, but got tired of my batteries dying in the Tx so I quit using it. I never even setup my 8103 for the sim. I just use the Tx it came with now. It's not the same, but it is convenient.

Lately most of my flying on the sim has been 5 minutes here and there. I leave the sim control on the computer desk, but would not leave my real Tx on the desk because of the kids. It'd take most of my few minutes on the sim to get the Tx hooked up and ready to fly, it's just not worth it to me.

Course if you like it, most certainly do it. If this hobby isn't fun and exciting it's not worth it.

flyerdarren

Well since everyone else is touting the Raptor, I'll go ahead and trow some alternatives.
The Caliber 30 is a great helicopter and very smooth/ stable, It's also easily upgradeable to a 50 if that's the size you want.
You can get an entire replacement heli for $229 from tower.
Radio, everyone has their favorite, I personally like the Airtronics RD 8000, very easy to program, supports tons of heli features (Gyro, GOV, EMS) and is quite a bit cheaper than the Futabas.
A sim will probably be your best investment, I've only been flying a couple months, but I'm already hovering in any orientation, inverted, forward flight and starting to get into some 3D stuff. All thanks to G-2. (I'm self taught)
Fuel, pretty much whatever you want to run.

Good Luck and have fun

Kreeve

Greetings, just going to add my thoughts into all this, i noticed a few things in the list that were not mentioned ( or I missed skimming) make sure you get a good blade balancer for the main and T/R , get a good pitch gauge and always use the same one, dont swap out with a buddies at the field. also dont forget a good motor locking tool for assembly, my preference is the crank lock not a piston stop, a flybar locking tool, and a second set of basic tools for the flight box.

As noted above a field charger is a nice tool to have and you may want to think about a bigger RX pack now as most heli radios only come with a 1100 or 1200 mAh pack, I think you will find most will suggest a 2200-2400 pack esp if you are going with all digital servos.

your building tools and flight box tools should never meet, this way nothing is forgotten when you hit the field and need something. also do yourself and your instructor a favor and dont buy cheap tools, trust me i use hand tools all day long and the 99 cent specials are good for only cleaning the dirt out of your boots. spend the money once and be done with it.

also a thought that no-one ever thinks of grab an old film container or 2 from just about anywhere and keep some change in one and around 20 bucks in small bills ( 1 and 2 buck coins for us canuks) in the other, when you need a glow plug sunday morning most of us hobby nuts will gladly donate but it sure is nice when they toss us a few bucks for that little part that keeps them grounded.

I hope I gave you something to think about and have not repeated everyone else here, also the above is all MY opinions and thoughts take it or leave it as you will and folks as I am still saveing for my bird and just going over my own checklist of stuff needed here please correct me if i am in error on anything or want to expand as I too am slowly getting into this.

Po_Helo

Kreeve,

Hands down the best piece of field advice I read in there was keeping a few buck in the tool box for the field. A glowplug, fuel, extra part for whatever.. I cant count how many times at the paintball field that I've given away o-ring, screws, hoses, old bolts to other guys only to get a quick thanks. Its not that big of a deal, and I have turned down the offer. If nothing else it was nice, and there have been times where that extra couple bucks paid for a quick lunch on the way home.

As for tools I agree 100%. You have a kit that sits ready to go, and a kit you leave on the bench. I've done that with all my other hobbies and its worked like a champ. I may have 10 pairs of needle nose pliers but each pair has a very specfic funtion .