floatyboy

I recieved my #36 walkera heli and so for i am very pleased! My problem is , is when i get good head speed which is about half stick with trim right up. The collective seems to just cut in fairly quick . All of a sudden. WHAM! it leeps up to about a foot and a half? After doing this drastic leep a few times it lifts off a bit more predictively but if i add a bit of cyclic, the tone of the blades change again and the heli lifts drastically again. This almost seems like the sticky collective i had with my Honey Bee 2. Accept i dont have the formation of washer set up in my #36 like the HB2 so i dont really know the problem.

This heli hovers well and i get about 4-5 mins off the stock Nimh battery. Can anyone help me. It is my only problem and would love to sort ot out..

thanks[&o]

credence

My Feedback: (2)

Sounds like it's just got a wacky pitch curve setup from the factory. I think you can adjust pitch with one of the knobs after unlocking the #8 switch on the back of the TX, but someone else will have to help you with that because i've never flown a CP helicopter from Walkera. If nothing else, you can try playing with your linkages to bring your swashplate down a bit to smooth out the movement.

X1705

Hey, anyone know the average 'actual' transmitting range of the stock Walkera/Dragonfly (4/22/35's), I read different distances everywhere, and one place said it had a 'eSky' transmitter. Anyways, transmitting (to Heli) Distances? anyone? Thanks!

credence

My Feedback: (2)

Not very far..
I've never gotten very good range with my Walkera transmitters

thecheatscalc

YEAH right I got atleast 500ft+ and it still worked fine. just coudn't see that far. oh if you have the antenna pointed at the heli the range is much shorter so just hold the antenna directly up. also I've had good luck wrapping the antenna around the horizontal fin and next to the servo (around the mount) make sure the wire end is pointing up and taped, mine was untaped and met tail rotor (sounded just like a weed wacker as it got chopped off to 1/3 legnth).

if you're having trouble with the colective jumping up weirdly just turn it to 3D mode by flicking the switch in the upper right hand corner. then you only control pitch not throttle and you shouldn't have any problem with the weird jumping problem. ok?

X1705

yeah thecheatscalc, was hoping it would be roughly that far, (500ft.), as that is what I have *usually* read it to be, but you never know, not like the Media has ever lied before Cool, yeah, my first (real cheap-o)/experimental I had to make so many modifications it didnt even lkook like a Heli when I was done with it, but it FLEW damit! haha, anyways, I will definatley take your advise and use it straight up, and make sure the wire on the Bird is faffixed properly.. good idea.. I plan on basically taking the whole thing apart once I get it (as far as I can reassemble that is), and checking/tightening everything, along with taing it to the local hobby shop as he said he wanted me to 'bring it to him' to check it over first.. haha, go figure why. Aight. thats good news.. i wont 'expect' 500, but at least it should give a 'good' range nontheless. Thanks for the replys!!

and credence; umm, I think you might be a spy working for eSky/HoneyBee.. Hmmmmmm just j/king width ya.
thanks again.
X1705

thecheatscalc

no really, I got far enough I could just barely tell when I spun the blades up I was serously 500ft+... with new batteries of course. I really suggest the 36 as it's well built, nevermind what the others say as long as you get a new battery, make sure all is aligned (no not replaced with TRex parts ) and all is secure and you'll be fine.

Just make sure the connections are tight, pull near screws to make sure that they're on tight and, that's it, supprisingly my problem was not under tightening it was over tightening. It's also supprisingly easy to take apart (i've completly dissambled it before, yes) as all the main frame screws are interchangable, except the ones holding the F/Back swash controler in place and the two holding the pitch adjuster in place. (no don't try to interchange the tail assy screws either). it's also pretty easy to put back together as well.

PS: make sure you get a few in phase strap assemblys (listed as part number 25 (just check out pics first before buying as it might be the part num 35)) that hooks the belt in the chasis to the blades in the rear. it strips if you hit the tail blades on something to the point where they stop spinning (yes I'm sure this is meant to be that way, it saves from trashing the rear assy. and main blades/gears)

X1705

cool, thecheatscalc, withthe distance thing, thats funny casue thats exactly whathappens in the simulator, and 'any advice/suggs' that ive gotten *about flying* has been "dont lose your angle/POV", exactly like when/if the bird spins around facing away, but you have it traveling backwards, and towards you, you're asking for a crash. I will probably be restricted to about 150ft for most, as my distance detial is kinda blurry.

Hey, what about those "Motor Heatsinks"? . . I have heard seom people have used "aluminum popcans" folded or some gist of that.. for a temporary fix anyhow, while determining/troubleshooting a problem, or waiting for an order. Whats your opinion on those? As I have heard that a *lot of the probs are with the motors burning up, especially on Dragonfly's, and that if you get 8-10 flights out of (1) motor, "your lucky" ?


Thanks,
X1705

thecheatscalc

I'm not sure... Itryed to make one and it wouldn't fit in the heli properly. Yes it should improve the life as materials wear out slower at lower temperatures (to a point of course) so it should help it a little. Personally my motor runs a good bit cooler after 30 min of flight time/when it's moving FAST. this is just because the brushes are broken in and spark less causing less heat/the movement of the insides make air circulate better causing a cooler motor. As for the flight time the motor should last 20-30 flights not 10 as I'm already past that point. (no not off the ground... yet...) if you look in the thing on the bottom are the brushes which are pretty gigantic (nearly 6mm) so I don't think they'd burn out that fast. Also I think the motor they're referning to is a TAIL motor not a main one. But yes the main motor will burn out eventually so make sure you save up for a brushless outrunner like the 420LF and a 25C speed control and you'll definatly have more than enough power.

Although I've not had this bird long it's been though some tough times. I've watched it lean and just pound the ground with the blades (not good) and still come out fine, as well as the rear blades... which I'm waiting for the glue to set right now. I'm sure you'll have a good time with this bird, it's great just make sure you have a high discharge li-po 10C or more is perfect.

PS: my vision is the same, but I don't think I could ever get it more than 200 feet as I'd loose all sense of direction with it.


wlx The Cheat

X1705

heh, yeah, 200ft is plenty for for me, too far im sure, my sense of direction gets confusing after probably 75, add to that the weather, clear or cloudy, cause much glare/who know, but yeah, I plan on keeping it pretty close for a long time.. no need to hurry. .

I mentioned 10 or so flights, but come to think of it I beleive it was 'credence' who said that. . hehe and as we all know by now, "WAlkera"'s are not* his particular choice of Bird. .uhhmm. hehe, yeah, I got 3 total Main blades, and an extra tail motor, dang thing though, I totally lapsed on getting a Tail Blade! ohwell, cheap enough even at the hobby shop i think.

Well, I was looking for 10-12c li-po's, this one comes with 8c li-po's (1300 and an 1900mAh), Hopefully that will be good enough for the beginning stages of flight, basics, and a lil fun at least.

I have copy/pasted a short article (actually i think it was from "credence" about "runing in the motors", in distilled water PRIOR to first flight, etc. . I will definatley be doing that, makjes a lot of sense, with Brushes and all. I can get you the article if you need, and email it you if you prefer. jlmk.

aight, learning something new every time. Thanks.
X1705

credence

My Feedback: (2)

Actually, I quite like Walkera birds. I own a #4 my self and enjoyed it alot. If you check my past posts, you'll see that i'm one of the few who actually encourages people to buy Walkera, if only with a fair warning of their quality. I'm only pointing out that myself, and many others, have had range problems with walkera products. I get glitching when the helicopter is less than 100 ft away. That doesn't mean they're all like that, i'm only reporting what i've experienced as a few others on these boards have. I also notice that the Walkera transmitter is more susceptible to interference than most, as sometimes the range is OK with no glitching, and somtimes I can't even get 50 ft without getting problems.

As the Cheatscalc stated, the issue with burning out motors applies to the small tail motors. A heatsink might extend it's life a bit, but not by much. This is a problem common to all dual motor micro helicopters. The main motors do not burn out as quickly. Infact, you're more likely to destroy everything else on your helicopter before your main motor quits. I've had a GWS Dragonfly and a Walkera Dragonfly, both have seen a LOT of runtime and both motors still go just fine with no signs of obvious wear yet.

Also, i'm flattered that you've decided to attribute everything in your posts to me, but i've never mentioned anything about methods for breaking in a motor or something about 10 flights on these forums . There was a post where we discussed the tail motor problem, but I stated in that post that I got alot more than 10 flights from my Walkera tail motor, if that's what you're thinking of.

If you've already run your motor, then it's to late to break it in anyways. Motor break in needs to be done when it's new from the factory. It can be done dry simply by letting the motor run for a few hours at very low throttle.

X1705

oh, o.k., hehe, yeah credence (sorry I'm going to have to Retract that Flattery I gave to you earlier! I think i was thinking about another post, possibly where you piped in, just your name rang the bell (as little as it may be) in my head. I . . wait, Traveler! thats whoo it was, ohwell anyways, . . Yes, I agree with what you are saying, Walkera's (from what i've read) are a "Hit or Miss" when it comes to their electronics. . but they are cheaper, even cheaper to repair in most cases, someone (probably from another forum) stated that "Companies like Walkera shouldn't sell their crap, etc", *Because(it goes on).. "it really screws the newbies and many will get the wrong opinion of RC/Heli's", I understand, and agree "In Theory", but also on the ligter side, "Companies like WAlkera" make even *breif* starters to newbies, as a learning, or ..just what most the smaller ones are, a stepping stone. imo. there's worse ones to get out there, believe me. [>:] hehe, (no, im not even suggesting it was credence who said this, as im quite sure it wasn't, just someone else seomwhere else, pretty common script for a lot of Walkera's Posts/Forums
well, get this, first I batteled with actually getting a Walkera (from all the negatives on these forums), but, it still fit my pocket book a LOT better than seom the others, (not in the long run maybe, but I will graduate as finances and experience allow). . then, hahaa, I had to debate WHERE to get it from, horror-horror after horror stories. . hobbyjapan2000, or whataver, rc-expert, a couple others, was sickening, only so because I know people were'nt lying. and i know seom mail order products run that high risk. anyways, I had already gotten in touch with a 'personal' sales person at rc-expert, and started to deal.. I now have this coming to me in the mail:

---------------------------------------------------
Dragonfly 22E 6ch RC Helicopter
Training Kit
11.1V Lithium Battery Charger
Lithium Polymer 1300mah battery (max 8C)
11.1V Li-ion Battery 1900mAh
CF Print PE Main Blade for DF22E
72MHz 6Ch Transmitter with changable Frequency Module
1 Pair of Crystals
9g Mini Servo x 3

*note: I couldnt talk him into a 10c, but 8c should barely be good enough, from what I hear.. still 'good' though.*
*note: CF Print PE Main Blade for DF22E: (i think credence brought this to my attention, [?]* well, can't win'em all

Heres the nice thing: they have added these as extras for me:
2 Main Blades (probably just the standard ones)
1 Tail Motor (usual)
1 Tail Blades (usual)
and 1 Main Gear.

(he threw in the first blades and tail motor 'as part of the sale', then today, when I noticed this Heli went down $10.00 in price on there website, I mailed him, and asked for seom store-credit, or if they could throw in tail blade and main gear, and they Did!

140+35/sh, $178 (includes that dam curency conversion fee

Looking at what I should be receiving for this first-time heli, I should be o.k. with it for at least a lil longer than had it just have been strickly stock items.. blades break, motors burnout, gears rip, what am i missing now?? hehe, besides just getting a T-REX that is.

Anyways, I know these posts are long, and appreciate you reading, or at least scanning through them,
I'm looking forward to 'opening the box' when it comes, and I will have my DigiCamera out and ready. hehe

oh, and credence, I am not trying to 'pick you out', just seems you've been one of the more 'levelheaded' bashers of Walkera that I've seen, you-know, throwing in a lil truth here and there. . . jus' j/king width ya.

Cheers.
X1705

credence

My Feedback: (2)

Walkera birds are great, I think, you just need to use caution when using them and making sure they're setup properly. That's why so many people bash Walkera, they're all newbies that don't know what they're doing and expect the helicopter to work right from the box. When you compare price and what you get for it, you just can't beat Walkera. It's a great starting point. Aslong as you don't expect to get the best quality piece of equipment in the world, usually you're OK. I'm not sure if you read it or not, but I started a post a while back here defending Walkera from this same standpoint about newbies meet complex flying machine and then venting on the forums.

Also,
It wasn't me who brought the CF print to your attention, I actually never even knew about that untill I saw the other fellow who mentioned it in that forum post, it makes good hearing nonetheless.

1300 MAH @ 8C will be about 10 amps. I don't know what the stock walkera setup pulls, but just keep an eye on it and make sure gear meshing is smooth. 10 A doesn't give you alot of room for error. If the battery starts to get hot, stick a higher capcity or higher discharge battery to be safe. Over-draining that LIPO could be...messy, at best.

Good luck with your bird

X1705

thanks credence, yeah after all this, I thik the only main _real_ concern I will have is taking care of the Lipo's, I am REAL new to being savvy with battery's/chargers are of electronics, so. . i hear what your saying, but I dont *know* what your saying, 10 amps etc, kinda pushing limits of a charge I presume, (i will be looking that info up asap), but what about the 1900mAh? Its rather basic stuff i am sure, I just need to get a hold of seom definitions/details of amperage, voltage, drainage, and regulators(?), etc.. here's something Im really not sure on, is there a difference between "Li-polymer", and "Lithium(Li-ion?)", <duh>, i would think so, but they sell them *together, and both at 11.1v to use same charger, etc, so Its just a concern.. . I usually dont fancy 'mixing' types, or Brands when it comes to power. Just my experience. any info would be cool, I will be searching the ever-so-familiar Google over the weekend about this stuff, but if you have anything I would appreciate it.

ps: yeah, that other forum/post I have followed, but the names are/were all brand new to me.. didn't intend to dishonor you credence.hehe


Cheers
X1705

floatyboy

Hi guys, i have another question about my walkera. However i would like to say first, i am so far very very happy with my walkera 36. It seems to be leagues away from my honey bee 2 and i no longer have to but tail motors.

I have a switch on the left top called "gear". Can i do auto's with this thing and has this switch got anytning to do with it? I am still on my stock Nimh battery which was standard with my pack and i have a 2200mah lipo on the way. I get 5 mins low altitude hovering of this battery which is where the heli is having to do alot of work. However on a full charge, even though the battery has a low capacity i should be able to hit the sky a bit more. Currently 5 - 6 feet is the limit. Is a PLT adjustment the one to give?

One other Q, in flight mode 1. Is this for more 3d flight(inverted) and if it is does this mean 0 throttle is mid stick?

Thanks guys

credence

My Feedback: (2)

X1705,

When concerning batterys, they have discharge rates.
Basically, it's whatever the batteries capacity is multiplied by the discharge rate to give you the max ammount of power that can be safely pulled from that battery

E.g a 1500 MAH battery that can be discharged at 10C would mean the battery can be discharged at 15 amps. 1500x10 = 15000 or 15.000 amps.

With LIPO's especially, you do not want to exceed this current draw, as drawing more from a LIPO battery than it's capable of putting out can permanently damage the cells of the battery and significantly shorten it's life. In extreme cases, the batteries have also been known to swell/catch fire.

When your helicopter is running, it's pulling power from the speed controller, which in turn is pulling power from your battery. As I said, I don't know what the Walkera helicopter pulls when it's running efficently, but it's important to make sure that it's not pulling more power than your battery is capable of putting out (in your case, 10 amps, or 15 amps with your 1900 battery). You probably won't go too high on a brushed setup, but it's good to keep an eye on it anyways. Tips to reduce current draw are to make sure that gear meshing is smooth on both the main gear and the tail, and to make sure that you aren't setup for a really aggresive pitch curve that might be causing more strain on the motor that is nescesary. Applying to much pitch a to low of a headspeed will bog the motor down and draw excessive power.

Unfortunately, unless you have an ammeter or one of those all-in-one wattmeters there is no reliable way to measure the ammount of amps being pulled in your setup. Of course, a good way to know if you're pulling to much is if your battery is getting hot . Warm is OK, hot is bad.

Also, the difference between LIPO and LI-ION, as far as I know, is that they have a slightly differnet chemical makeup. LI-ION's are supposed to be easier to damage because the chemical make up is softer (wet?) compared to Lithium polymer. They don't survive crashes as easy and puncture easier and are more sensitive to being banged around. They both charge in the same manner though, and so make sure you use a proper charger for both

Hope that helps you some.

thecheatscalc

ok the 8C really is the bare minimum for a 3D helicopter, get blades at grandrc (boy I love announcing them after I ordered from them) their under the TRex section. I'd suggest the ABS blades as their pretty much invincible. good luck! and I hope the eli works for you!

floatyboy

Currently with the stock set up that i have got ,the battery and the motor get very very hot. Its seems through reading forums on this chopper that this happens to be quite normal. My motor and main gear seem to mesh fine(not too tight). Not sure what too tight for the tail would be though. Any way by the sounds of it i would hate to see my 2200 mah lipo get as hot as the stock nimh battery. I am also not sure what "c" discarge rate the lipo is. I have asked the manufacturer. Will i get a good flight time with this battery?

your feedback is great guys! keep it coming.

thecheatscalc

ok the C is I think either an Amp or 1.3-1.5 Amps. you want to have more than 10C's if possible but if not 10 will do just fine. also your heli will run hotter if the main blades aren't spining as fast as it should be. make sure the pitch is 10-13 degrees in fp mode. the ni-mh battery getting hot is normal. and the main motor if kept at speed usually stays cooler.

credence

My Feedback: (2)

It is not FP mode on a collective pitch helicopter, it's referred to as normal mode. FP would imply the blades pitch is fixed (like walkeras smaller micros), which they arent. Don't confuse the poor guys!

Thecheatscalc, C discharge is the rating used to see how many amps a battery can be discharged at safely, as I stated in my forum post, to figure out the discharge rate in amps, take the batterys MAH rating (1500) and multiply that by the manufacuturers rated C discharge, in this case, 8C. So, it's 1500 x 8 = 12000 or 12.000 amps.
The formula is MAH x C Rating = Max nominal amps.

Very hot implies that you are pulling more than you should, wether it's normal for that helicopter or not. Keep in mind that, near the end of their discharge, the batteries naturally get hot. If the battery is at the point where you can't even hold it in your hand though, then you're pulling to much power for the battery. Nicd's and Nimhs are more tolerant to over-discharging of the cells than LIPOs are, but it will still damage them in the longrun. Ideally, your battery should be warm to mildly hot during a full session of use.

X1705

heh, you guys know when I do finally get my Bird in (end of the Month), I will hopefully have compiled all your advice you have posted on here, and a couple other Forums, maybe make it into a "Beginners Tutitorial/Info Guide". . then you can just post a link to the page.

on my 22e, I cannot find the exact "Flight Weight", but the saem thing listed with NiMH FLight Weight is 374g other site.. so I doubt it can be much off from that, nonetheless, I have heard this is a relatively lighter bird. Hopfully 8c (1300mAh li-po and a 1900mAh Li-ion) will be strong enough, at least for starters. Anyways, here's my real question: does anyone know of a way to make a Dragonfly Transmitter able to use with a PC or MAC for use with a Flight Simulator ("FMS", or "RC Flight Simulator 1.8 for MAC"? I see *some TX's have cables you can just buy, but I cannot find anything that easy for use iwth the Dragonfly. (serial, USB, or Parallel)

Thanks in Advance,
X1705

thecheatscalc

no clue about using the controller on a pc....
your li batts should do fine, as the 1300 half the weight of the 650 ni-mh (which in turn is 1/6+ of the weight of the heli) so you should be able to get away with it with out much of a problem.
now how do you find the discharge rate of the battery? I have tryed with a multi meter (set on amps) but that always makes a nice spark and lets a little tendril of smoke up. (yes my batterys are still ok)


PS: when you get thorugh sell it and split the money with us... heh heh heh.

X1705

thecheatscalc; "how do you find the discharge rate of the battery?" Good question. I take it your place of purchase covered the info up on the battery (like rc-expert.com does i guess), or they won't tell you if you called them?


i dont know about _all_ the batteries out there, but sometimes if you are careful, depending upon the "wrap" that the batteries are incased in, you may be able to pick through there, or (carefully), rub away a spot where it may stat its capacity/etc on the batts. .?

Other than that, sorry I can't give you any advice for 'multimeters' or any other electrical means, as I have next to Zero experience with that, except for old PC's

Cheers.
Oh, yeah, maybe start a Forums_Paypal for donations or something.. heh, ya never know. [&:]

X1705

thecheatscalc

well my battery is one of them blue free ones....

floatyboy

I bought mine off eHirobo. $29.99 with charger, 2200mah. I'm sure the charger will be ****.