ATVAlliance

Recently I put my .02's in on a couple of threads here in the heli forums on the CopterX value electronics kit. Of which comes with said gyro in the subject line.

While I had another user here state his displeasure with the kit...I had no issues with it on my EXI 500...BUTI did not use the ESC or gyro as I already had what I thought to be better components in my parts box.

So, based on these recent posts...I decided to put together a spare EXI 450 plastic version I had gaterhing dust and thought I would use the GY240 gyro since it was the only one I had left not being used.

This thing looks like it wires up like a 401 clone. Meaning it has the 3 wire plug that goes into rudder channel...then the single yellow remote gain wire that you put in either Gear or Aux (Im using DX7 and AR6100). So, I basically copied my flying 450 setup to another model and used those settings for a starting point across the board.

What I find weird is that no matter if I am in HH or rate mode...the gyro still tries to correct the position of the tail servo. Yes...it does it in regular rate mode too. The only way I can tell a difference in rate or HH mode is if the servo comes back to center on its own. Otherwise, if I move the tail...the gyro tries to compensate. Im still very new and its been so long since I set up a gyro that I am second guessing if I am forgetting or missing something.

Here is what I have done so far...

1. Made sure the servo reversing is correct
2. Made sure the gyro direction is correct
3. Set end points on my "gear" channel to 50% (for a starting point)
4. Adjusted both pots (delay and gain) to appropriate settings for servo type (analog) and travel

All other settings, ie pitch &throttle curves and such are correct as I have tested this by spooling up the heli and testing cyclic directions according to stick input.

I havent lifted off because the gyro seems to not be working correctly. It has severe tail wag before lift off...so much that I am sure of a crash if it gets airborne. No adjustment of the delay makes ANY difference.

So...if anyone has any input on setting up this GY240 CopterX gyro with a DX7 and AR6100, feel free to add to this topic. Or perhaps the guy in the other thread was right and this gyro needs to be sent to the trash can.

I have 2 GY48V gyros (on a 450 SE V2 and 500) that work fine for my flying skills at this point. I know the GY48V isnt the best out there by far...but again for my skillset it holds the tail just fine. So maybe I should just order another one and be done with it?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The Futaba GY240, unless someone is making a clone and calling it the same thing doesn't have a remote gain wire.

As for the tail servo, thats exactly what it should be doing.

Delay has nothing to do with tail wag, the gain is too high.

ATVAlliance

As I said...Im still very much new. Just going by what the instructions that came with the gyro stated. Here is a link...

http://www.arthobby.pl/CopterX/CopterX_GY240_manual.pdf

And a quote from the instructions...

Delay:

For fast digital servo set delay to zero. For slower or analog servo set delay to stop tail hunting.


I still must be missing something...just dont know what. This is one of the biggest things about not having a mentor when learning helis. The flying is hard enough to learn on your own. Trying to figure out setups on your own is just as hard. I dont have any trouble getting the head setup and throttle/pitch curves. Its just this darn gyro that is giving me fits. Also, perhaps I am doing everything right and its just a piss poor gyro like someone else said to me in another thread here.

Is there a "How To" guide for setting up a DX7 and a 401 gyro? Because really this thing probably is a clone 401 with the remote wire. Actually, the instructions that came with the gyro was labled "GY401". So Ilooked up the link I provided you above and its the same instructions...only with "GY240"on it. Everything else is word for word...same document just with a different title.

I am a member of a club that is further away from me that does have heli pilots. Just dont know when it will be before I get a chance to get back there. Could even be next season. My main club unfortuanately has no heli pilots other than myself, and I dont even claim tobeone...YET! lol. Thats why I thought I would pose a question here and try my luck and sorting it out myself.

Thanks again.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

http://www.raptortechnique.com has an article on the 401 with a DX7

The instructions apply to most setups.

Tail wagging usually means too much gain.

The way to set delay for a slower servo is to do a full piro, let go fast at the end. If the tail bounces before it locks in, then sneak the delay up till you run the miniumum amount of delay possible and get no bounce.

You're reading poorly (at best) translated instructions.

ATVAlliance

Going to head over there now and look up the article...thanks for the lead!

As far as setting delay...I understand what you are saying about the adjustment. Its just I have to get the gyro worked out to at least hold the tail steady for lift off. As it is now...soon as it gets light on the skids its "wagging" to and fro a LOT. Like a foot!

Like I said...going to go read over the article and double check all of my settings and see if there is something I overlooked.

I have digital servos on my other 450 and 500 and therefor was told to keep delay at 0. So Ive never really had to adjust delay before now. And I know what the "Limit"pod is for as well...so I know it has to be the gyro itself or possibly something I have overlooked or misunderstood in the DX7 programming.

I'll update this thread of my success, or lack thereof.

thanks again!

ATVAlliance

I did some testing last night and I think either this gyro is junk...or I have an uknown vibration coming from somewhere.

Reason I say this is I dropped the gain in HH mode all the way down to 5, and while it did make it somewhat better...its unflyable.  I at least got it in the air...but tailwag is just too much to fly.  And the tail is slowwwwwwwww to respond to stick input as well.

Maybe, just maybe me copying over the model info from my other 450 as a starting point was a bad idea.  I think I will start from scratch on programming, make sure all mechanical setup is spot on...and see the results again.  Meanwhile I think I will order another GY48 to put on in the event I end up with the same results.

Its just funny...from spool up...to mid stick its pretty darn stable on the ground.  Almost as soon as it lifts into the air it gets tail wag.  Before dropping the gain on HH to 5...I couldnt even get it light on its skids before the severe tail wag would start.  Also, I was too afraid to drop the gain down below 5...but really, FIVE????  I think the lowest setting I have seen anyone talk about on settings was in the 20's.  I wish I knew more about this stuff! lol

ATVAlliance

sorry, double post.

ATVAlliance

May have stumbled on my answer.

Just watched a video from mikeysrc or whatever on youtube about gyro setup.  I had watched this same video a year or two ago when I bought my first 450...just did not retain much.

Anyway...during his explanation of gyro gain...he pointed out that gyro gain, + & -, was increased with a LOWER number on the TX and decreased with a HIGHER number.

So, when I started out with previous settings from my GY48 gyro...the gain settings were 50 & -50.  I kept on lowering the number because I "thought" that the lower the number...the lower the gain.  All the way down to where I stated in my previous post.  So it seems I was increasing the gain and not lowering it.

Tonight, I plan on going to 90 and see what happens.  I'll report back with my results.  The only thing that concerns me is that with the gain setting at 50...it was all over the place and my adjustments "seemingly" made it somewhat better.  Not good enough to fly...but seemed it was better to the point that I actually hovered the thing for a few seconds and still was somewhat in control of it.

So, is what was said in mikeyrc video true?  The higher the number, the lower the gain and the lower the number the higher the gain on the channel that is being used for gyro sensitivity?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

It really depends on what radio and how (what menu) you're using to set your gain.

If you picture your gain channel with a servo, when the servo is centered the gain is at 0 and the gyro is between modes. Start moving that servo left and the gyro switches to heading hold mode and increases gain till the stick gets full left when the gyro is at 100 percent gain. Move to the right and it switches to rate mode and starts increasing the gain till it gets to 100 percent gain in rate mode with full right stick.

They all work the same way.

Now, when you're dealing with end points for gain, the farther the end point from center the higher the gain but all you're doing instead of a stick or a knob, is with a switch you're giving it a fixed stopping point to the left for HH mode, and to the right for Rate mode.

Various radios have different ways of displaying gain depending depending on the make of radio, and whether or not you use a gyro menu, or travel adjust (end points) to set it.

ATVAlliance

And to think I thought I was figuring this all out! LOL

Maybe you can tell me what I should do. Im not using the "gyro"feature of my DX7. So, Im just using the + &- settings of the travel adjust of the Gear channel. According to "Mikey" in his video...he stated that the gain increased the lower the number and decreased the higher the number.

So in the DX7 menu...I have a positive and negative setting for Gear. I started out at 50% both positive and negative and worked my way down from there to 10. Not much of a difference...but was seemingly easier to control at 10, than at 50.

I may be confusing myself because I have watched several videos...two of which I used for my limited knowledge on the subject(may be my downfall here). The first one was from a guy that made a video for DX7 settings to accompany the finless bob videos. You may know which one I am talking about because the guy must own some type of bird that you can hear squaking in the background from time to time. Its on the Heli Freak site along with Finless vids.

This guy I think uses the gyro feature of the DX7 as he discussed end points for the rudder channel...and then discussed programming the gain in "gyro sensitivity" and had a formula for describing how to figure out the numbers you plug in. It wasnt a 1:1 ratio...so to get the gain you had to do some math and it ended up being like 72 on HH and 28 on RM, or something like that.

Then I found the Mikey video again and he speaks of just setting the travel adjust and not the gyro function. He doesnt actually show this with the DX7...but just using the remote gain sensitivity wire in Channel 5 (which is Gear on DX7) and adjusting the travel adjust + and - for the gain sensitivity. This is where he explained that higher gain is a lower number and lower gain is higher. He mentioned that the gain on some radios centered at zero and had + and - values (this is how the DX7 works) and some radios used 50 as center point so 0-49 would be RM and 51-100 would be HH mode. But in either instance...the higher/lower numbers reflected lower/higher gain sensitivity respecitvely.

I know...long winded here. Just trying to put it all out here so maybe you can find where I am misinterpreting things. Or if you could tell me exactly what I need to do, start to finish...I would understand it better. As I havent found anything yet that helps me figure this all out.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

AKPhill

Let me see if I can help a little
1 set your tx end points to 100 and leave there
2 limit pot just adjusts servo travel it will limit the servo so that your control lever will not bottom out and cause strain on your servo.
3 If using a digital servo turn your gain pot to 0 and adjust from tx gyro channel the dx7 will be in heading hold on 50 gain or above most have good luck with this. Any adjustment below 50 will be in rate mode.
4 if it is a anolog servo then turn your gain pot to 11 oclock adiust either up or down  depending on if your getting wag  or drift
Good luck

ATVAlliance

Thanks Phill...I appreciate your post.

I didnt get to do much work on it last night as I had to mow grass, and that took until dark. So once done with mowing I did do a little bit of work on it. I took the head apart and releveled the swash with my leveling tool (I had only done it by the "eyeball method", which I wasnt too far out). I rechecked all linkages and rechecked main rotor blade balance.Checked belt tension and went over all screws Checked servo centering and finally rechecked TX settings based on info from this thread.

We are suppose to get rain all day today AND tomorrow...so hopefully I will have enough break in the weather sometime soon to actually get the heli outside and see what happens.

Im confident that I am close in learning the "ins and outs" of setting up a gyro. Its just been close to 2 years since I set up my first one...and the 2nd one I set up I just cloned the TX model settings since I was using an identical gyro and outside of reversing the rudder channel and gyro direction...I didnt have to do anything else to it.

So again, thank you for your post and I will update this thread when I get a chance to get it back outside and in the air.

ehirobo ehirobo

For the copterX gy240 gyrois a futaba 401 clone. Please refer to the manual in the following link.

http://www.ky-model.com/copterx/copterx_GY401.doc

For normal hover we find it best to work at around 30% gain setting. So it will be around +15% on your spektrum. (the led will turn on at the gyro without any stick input). If you are in normal mode the led on the gyro will stay off.

ATVAlliance

I have tried almost every gain setting between +1 and +100, all with basically the same result.

The only thing I havent done yet is to open up the gyro and try to dissapate the shock within. Read somewhere online somewhere that people were modding these cheaper gyros with hot glue because they were "loose"inside.

Also...I havent tried to remount using thicker double side tape. I also seen online somewhere that you can use 2 pieces of double stick tape with a metal shim inbetween the two tapes to dampen vibration.

I really dont think any of the mods will work as there isnt any more vibration in this heli than my other 450 with the Detrym GY48V gyro, as well as the same GY48V on my 500 and both of those helis are fine.

The only difference in this heli and my other 450 is its a cheaper aluminum frame model (other 450 is a carbon fiber edition) and Im using cheap servos(other 450 I am using HiTec servos all around).

OtherwiseI am using the same upgraded head/tail I am using on the carbon edition...same motor and ESC...same batteries...even the same blades. This heli with the problem seems to be even more "smooth" feeling than my other 450 and all of the linkages are tight, not to the point of binding...just no slop in them because its such a new build.

I dont know...other than ordering another GY48V, what to do with this one.

ehirobo ehirobo

Hum... usually the 2 double side tape and metal plate is only necessary for larger heli with more vibration. And the hot glue (or foam) trick is only necessary for align 3G's..... Anyway, How I setup my gyro is turn it to normal mode at around 30% gain (for your spektrum it should be around -15% gain). Test fly the heli. Only do mechnical changes (adjust the rudder push rod) to correct the tail drift. After that's been done. Switch back to HH hold at around 30% gain, now adjust the gain to stop tail drifting, then adjust the delay to stop tail hunt.... Just my 2 cents.

nanwal

Hey Guys

I have been reading your posts and was having the same problems. I finally found a manual for the coptor X gyro. I set up my gyro as per the instructions and it works great.

Go to this site to download : http://www.arthobby.pl/CopterX/CopterX_GY240_manual.pdf

Good luck

Walter