Lift

My Feedback: (1)

Moderators,
Please do not close threads that are still on topic by the majority!!! Evan, myself, and others were still discussing the Freya/Raptor topic and to close the thread because of a few rotten apples is not right. I think you guys need to find another alternative for handling off-topic comments. I would rather you delete or comment out their post than lock the thread. This type or response will not keep me frequenting this board long.


Evan,
Yes, as you mentioned in your last post on the other thread the Fury had some issues at first(namely the frame area around the clutch needing more support) when released. All kits have this just like the Raptor 60 did with the red tail gears, head block, auto-rotation hub, etc. The issue that speaks volumes about TT is how quick they corrected some designs and re-issued a V2 option kit FREE OF CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since those issues have been addressed there has only been one known problem with the R60 design. Specifically, the tail rotor torque tube ends were slipping loose causing loss power to the tail. For the last year owners have been aware of this and some have drilled and inserted a pin through the shaft/end to prevent any issues. Other than this issue the Raptor 60 is proving to be one of the most solid platforms.

So, my point is that you probably jumped off the R60 to quick. It's a great machine fully capable and for the $ it is an excellent choice.

evan-RCU

I agree with what you say, but, I'm pretty happy with the freya now. Both make good sport helos. Another point no one is making on this thread thats a surprise to me is the helo kit is only a small part of the big picture. Choosing a .61 or a .91, good servos or mediocre servos and gyro really are what makes a helo cheap or expensive. The kit is just a starting point. Another point not tlked about is the maintenance, the R60 was basically no maintenance, so is the Freya, hows the Fury?

Lift

My Feedback: (1)

Maintenance.....

Well, the Fury is a bugger to get dialed in. I'm not saying it is poor to setup but rather that the mechs are not for your beginner builder. MA ships have always been a quite labor intensive to build and maintain. BUT, compared to the Pro 2k, SE,..... the new frame layout is more friendly.

Overall if you are builder that likes to take pride in your setup and spends time getting things spot on then you will like the Fury. But, it's certainly no Raptor or Freya. For example the mainshaft/crowngear/autorotation unit are all stacked in such a way that pulling the head/and mainshaft as one unit is more difficult. It's little things like this that differ it from a Raptor where you just remove the lower Jesus bolt and mainshaft lockring and lift right up.

For me, working on the Fury didn't bother me as much as opening the wallet at the register or checkout screen!!!

RS2K

My Feedback: (8)

Maintenance.....

What is the use of all that dialing in? I know the Fury is a better machine than the Raptor or Freya but what makes it better? Is there more than one way to dial it in or is it just to balance and align everything. If it's just to align everything then why not make a Fury that has everything set up so you don't have to align? Is it just too hard to manufacture a good machine like that?

evan-RCU

There are some helos that you seem to have to work on every night before you fly to get the bugs out that showed up the last time you flyed. I don't miss that at all...

Lift

My Feedback: (1)

Yup, I agree with that. Been fighting the Falcon SE V2 tailrotor system all summer. Couldn't get enough pitch, fixed that. Now, can get the tail to quit wagging in right hand turns!!! Argghhhh The only issue I haven't been able to solve so far. Problem is as I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!!!! Century, are you listening??

evan-RCU

I have had zip problems with my Hawk SE, what is your Falcon doing and what have you done so far to try and fix it?

Lift

My Feedback: (1)

Well, the I was orginally having problems with the Falcon tail providing enough pitch to piro the heli to the left in while moving. On a simple 540 stall turn if I was in motion it wouldn't piro until almost all momentum was done. So, I found the problem to be the pitch fork and slider not allowing enough pitch when using the GY401. I installed the R60 tail rotor fork & links, grips, hub, bearings and that solved that problem.

Now, all I have left is this crazy wag that I get when doing a right hand turn. The tail will wag left and right just like you see when the gain is to high on a gyro. It doesn't do it on left turns. Just on clockwise stuff. As a matter of fact, if I remember correctly it did it with the stock tail parts.

I changed my tail blades from 95mm NHPs to 85mm NHPs and that seemed to reduce the wag about 50%. So, I am beginning to think that either slop from the geartrain in the tail rotor case or the front maingear/drive coupler is the cause. Don't know. How much gear backlash to you have when holding the mains stationary?

RCAdd1ct

I am in the market for a 60 size heli.

I am considering the rap60 and freya.

I most likely will not be putting a 60 in either.

What would be the best heli for a 80-91 size conversion?

I have a rap 50 (OS) and am quite happy with it.

I just want something bigger and more aggressive.

Either will have PCM, 601, digitals and a GV-1 on it.

My original inclination is for the Rap 60 due to ease of ratio availability and brand loyalty, but a LOT of people say to go with the Freya.

I don't like the Freya astheticly, though.

Any thoughts?

Lift

My Feedback: (1)

RCAdd1ct,
Well, since you are already in a R50 then the R60 would make sense because of parts similarities and brand familiarity. The R60 is a blown up version of the 30/50 with some design changes to the grips(zero delta & leading edge control), driven tail, stacked frame. This is about as maintenance free as it gets. A confidence building machine good for beginners to advanced hard-core 3D.

If you want to got the big block route you will need a metal fan, heavy duty clutch/clutch bell, proper gear ratio, and 550cc tank. The 90 option kit has all the stuff you need except for the metal fan. It will go like stink when you get it all done. There are metal head blocks, grips, yada yada yada available for the R60. Alot of options out there.

The Freya in 80 or 90 format is equally impressive. On the other thread we beat the discussion up pretty good but I think we ended up debating whether or not the extra $ made the Freya worth it. IMHO I don't think so but then again I don't own a Freya. Only have flown and helped setup a few.

On the otherhand, if you got the $ and don't put it in often and can afford $200 + blades on average then you might look at the "high end" machines instead. I like the Fury myself haveing owned one. The Vigor CS rips it up pretty good too. Can't comment on the Futura or Mille but Robbe is losing the 3D game little by little here in the States.

For the most part the funflies are dominated by Hirobo, TT, X-Cell. Century is trying to get in the game with the Falcon SE v2 and the 60 size Predator to be released early 2003. So, for 3D there are you options.

RCAdd1ct

I am cool with using up clutches and setting up the heli. Either of them.

In their current stock configuration, which one has the most issues with Tail Rotor failure (either servo or mechanical)?

I have heard rumors of rap 60 tail drive failures and Freya servo linkage issues>

Can anyone substantiate or expel any of these?

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

The Freya is an excellent ship, I have had mine for 2 months now, and I love it. I have had not one problem with this ship, it is so smooth, and the present kit comes with everything you need to use a 61,80, or 91 engine. Hirobo has top quality parts, and is by far one of the leaders in RC Heli's, the service offered by Jeff Green cannot be better, upgrades are top notch, and you will never regret the Freya. I have a YS80 in mine, and it does everything you want it to do. I would highly recommend looking at both ships, and making your decision from there. Personally, I am not a big Raptor fan, but they seem to have a loyal following. Daz...
Here is a pic of mine

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

Here is a pic of the Raptor 60 I found on RCU, just for your viewing pleasure. Daz...

RCAdd1ct

It is really kind of funny. I used to hate the look of the Rappy. Now I like it a lot. I guess it just kind of grew on me.

With that being said, I should not go on looks for my new heli.

RS2K

My Feedback: (8)

I don't mind most of the canopies out there. The only one's I have a problem with are the Xcell canopies and the Caliber canopies.

The Xcell canopies just look a little too big for the heli, that's the only thing I have against them, but the Caliber canopy is just plain old UGLY. I get sick just looking at it. I like the look of the raptor canopies, especially head on and from the belly on its side.

RCAdd1ct

How does the freya canopy attach?

Does it screw on or clip on? For what reason do you have to remove the canopy?

For instance on my Rap 50 I only need to remove the canopy to tune the Governor and to clean it. There are no tools needed to remove it and there is nothing to loose once it is off since it just slips of the body mount pegs.

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

The freya canopy attaches using bolts, which is the best method used for 60 size heli's. I use thumbscrews so I can unscrew by hand, there is no reason to take off canopy unless you are cleaning or tuning your equip. Daz...

manilaheli

OOOOHH.. my favorite topic. Sorry for being late.

The Freya I have is going on 2 years already. Simon of littlerotors has posted my long term impressions on the Freya on littlerotors.com.

The Raptor 60s I have tried are great ships as well. Even using a 60 size engine, they are very "sprightly" things, it doesn't track as well as the Freya and requires more elevator control to get flying straight and fast. It does like tumbling though and the included torque tube gives more tail authority during an auto while robbing less rpm from the main rotors. The crash index is still the lowest and with the included woodies in the crash kit, you CAN economically learn the risky maneuvers with less pain on the wallet.

The Freya has for it's advantage the ability to be setup from MILD to WILD (and I mean wild), so even if you're just into circuit flying, the Freya can adapt easily by either toning down the setup or as simple as adding/removing weights on the excellent paddle design on it. Also, the drivetrain is top notch, never broke a clutch all the while still using the original clutch bell. Originally when I built it 2 years ago, it was setup really MILD. Now, compared to the Freyas the other guys in the field have, the difference is night and day. Versatility is where the Freya has the definete advantage and with common parts from the Eagle line, you can gradually upgrade your heli to use the best parts of the Hirobo line without having to buy their top of the line model.

The Fury (expert) has the BEST value in the industry for the kit with all the carbon and features they throw in, but it will NEVER be a first 60. It's better as a 2nd heli after owning either a Freya or Raptor. MA helis do require more TLC when building them as the tolerances are tighter and mistakes will definetely show up and will force you to do it right or not fly it at all. Plastic 60s are more forgiving as there's no adjustable meshing between gears and will tolerate even a total beginner assembling them.

And don't ever forget....

the KIT is the least of your concerns, better avionics will mean a better flying "experience" since these translate your input directly into the model. A heli with better avionics will outfly a better kit with an average flight pack.

Kits are disposable... they come and go.. avionics stay with you longer during the course of hobby.

Good luck!

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

Very nicely put Manilaheli !!! Daz...

Lift

My Feedback: (1)

manilaheli

RS2K

My Feedback: (8)

I do have to say that the Raptor wins the beauty contest, if not the action award in those photos!

Lift

My Feedback: (1)

ManilaHeli,
Beautiful invert!!! Nice camera work!!!

RCAdd1ct

Lift:
Do you own a Rap 60?

Anyone:
The local hobby shop says that the Rap 60 goes through some weird rocking gyrations in a transition from FFF to hover. The rotor disk will be still, but the body will rock back and forth hunting for a second before stabilizing. They say they only see it in the 60 version not in the 30/50. Can anybody comment on this?

GM1

Nice inverted photo but all that smoke would drive me crazy. I'm glad to see many of the fuel manufacturers are working hard to reduce the smoke to a more reasonable level.
A quick note on the Fury, it is a little more time comsuming to set up but there are so many things that are adjustable to make the model as flexible as possible. I have three, an Expert and two Extremes that have flown with a variety of motors from a Webra 50 to the OS (and soon YS) 91 with blades from 620 to 710 mm. The new MA head soon to be released is even MORE adjustable than the current design giving multiple damping and flybar ratios. I can't wait.
Gordie