`3D

My Feedback: (1)

Yup...at home most of the time....got 20+ acres....10 of which I mow like a golf course...also about a 3 hundred yard runway for planks....am I spoiled or what...

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

27MHz and 49MHz are free-for-all bands... they can be used for air or surface... I think he was alluding to the fact that some of the cheap electric RC planes use 27MHz, like the Aerobird Challenger...

blvdbuzzard

Yep, I am just getting back into flying my helicopters. I have been able to fly little eleictric plans for the last two years due to lack of funds to get the helicopters back in the air. I live on 6 acres and have a 300X80 foot runway. I can fly up to 60 sized fixed wing aircraft.

Dru.

corey19981

isn't it illegal to fly a petrol heli anywhere other than an airfield? I fly my piccolo outside in the summer, although I crashed it last time, and had to buy some new blades []

sparkling_fist

i live right in the middle of the city..
there are no big green patchs for miles!!

i dont have a basement..
my house has many floors but the rooms are too small to fly..

i sometime fly it on the balchoney... lol
(hmm... spelling..)

hydravien

cops dont give a damn about what i do around here. take for example, i had a tennis ball mortar (google it). it was louder than a 12 guage, and i needed to wear earmuffs and earplugs to be able to launch it and have an intelligent conversation after. i kept launching it. no one cared. one day i put a "quieting device" on it, and now it is quieter. still louder than a 90 tho, so i think itd be safe to say ud get away with flying a nitro around here

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

<<...why wouldn't you think...>>

Because these things are more akin to freaking toys. There are several other freqs they could have used, which are basically unregulated by the FCC, instead of our dedicated freq (72 mHz).

75 mHz is a dedicated ground freq. Who said anything about 75 mHz???



P.S.: You're right, Paul; that's exactly what I was talking about.

heli-john

Eh?

And - do you mean petrol?

ChopperMike

First of all, everything we fly, from little RTF electric planes and heli's to glow and turbine powered heli's to 40% scale Extra 300's, is a toy. Someone who flies an electric heli or plane, whether a RTF or a kit has as much right to fly on 72 Mhz as anyone else. And even if there wasn't someone flying a park flyer nearby there's no way of knowing if someone in his house will turn on his radio while working on his model, which is why it's downright dangerous to try and fly anything larger and heavier than a park flyer anywhere but at an established flying field.



Mike

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Thank you for the lecture, but don't presume to know the specifics of my situation; i.e., I have a big lot with plenty of room for hovering, away from any houses, etc.; none of my neighbors are into r/c, so one of them "turning on" in his house isn't a concern. And you don't think a park flyer could cause an injury???

You're so caught up in your self-righteous indignation that you cannot see my point. It is NOT about who has the "right" to fly what. In the first place, it is a priviledge, not a right. What it IS about is irresponsibility on the part of the industry- by putting these cheap toys on 72 mHz, there is going to be interference problems from users who don't know (and probably don't care) about frequency control. The hobby mongers had to have realized this, but did it anyway in pursuit of a fast buck.

Yes, they're all toys. But let's see how charitable YOU are when your four-figure model aircraft is destroyed by some guy with a $99 flying foam picnic plate, because he didn't bother to find out the proper etiquette of these "toys"...

There have already been incidents of shoot-downs AT OFFICIAL FLYING FIELDS, by bubbas who bought a park flyer because it looked neat and tried to fly it too close a proper flying field. I dunno about you, but I have a lot of time and effort invested in my r/c models. I certainly don't want to lose any of that investment to some duffer with a spare hundred dollar bill who bought a park flyer for kicks.

So get off your high horse and look around; you may be the next victim of these people. Thanks to the industry, there are tons of them out there.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

As far as the 72MHz issue goes...

If I remember correctly... the AMA guidelines require you to check with chartered clubs within 3 miles of where you intend to operate your transmitter, to be sure that you don't interfere with someone else. The problem is, I doubt this is an FCC requirement, and I'd bet that most people buying these cheap park fliers don't even join the AMA, and don't even think about interference issues.

All I can say is... I'm glad spread-spectrum technology is here in the RC hobby already, and I hope a SS-module for my Futaba 9C comes out in the near future! 72MHz is going to be more and more cluttered as cheap RTF park fliers become cheaper and more popular.

BTW, here's an update on our Hobbico 72MHz frequency checker installed at our club if anyone is interested:

It seems to work quite well, although an occasional "false" channel will pop up now and then (can't really distinguish a false reading from occasional interference). It scans through all of the 72MHz channels, 11-60, in about 15 seconds. Each channel's LED lights up as it is scanned, and it remains lit if a signal is detected on that channel. Since each channel is scanned briefly every 15 seconds, you're not likely to pick up brief or intermittent intereference signals, but you will easily pick up a signal from a TX in the area. If you have a TX turned on within a few feet of the unit, you are more likely to get some false channel readings.

We installed our freq checker in the freq pin box at our field, and we run it off of an AC adapter. The checker is mounted in a sealed box, containing the power jack and a filter cap to keep the AC/DC adapter noise from causing false readings (the adapter is plugged into an AC outlet about 30 feet away, and a 40ft+ power cord runs from there to the unit). We have an external wire antenna for it to extend the range (cut to the proper 72MHz band length).

It came in handy a week ago, when several of us landed quickly to clear the air for a turbine's maiden flight. Four of us had left our TXs on, and someone happened to notice there were 5 channels lit up and only one guy flying! It wasn't an interference issue (we all had freq pins), but it sure save our TX batts that day!

I'd say it's worth the $50 for a club installation, or if you fly at non-AMA chartered locations regularly, and want to check for intereference signals in those areas...

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Thanks for the report, Paul. Sounds like a worthwhile gadget.

<<72mHz is going to get more and more cluttered as cheap RTF park flyers become cheaper and more popular.>>

That's exactly my point.

ChopperMike

Steve

If your house is far enough away from any others and you know for a fact that there aren't going to be any transmitters turned on nearby, then go ahead and fly. All I'm saying is there are a LOT of people who fly in areas where there are safety and interference issues. Where I used to live, one day I heard what sounded like a 40 size model engine running. Sure enough, 2 blocks away there was a profile plane flying in the open field field next to the local HS. This was not in an isolated area, it was a highly populated residential part of town. I found out later that the guy flying was a member of my R/C club who sometimes flew there instead of driving to the club field. I don't know what frequency he was using but one of the freq. he uses is ch 29 which is what I usually use.

Contrary to what you may think, it's not easy (possible?) to simply pick a band that nobody is using. Those days are long gone. Like I said, what frequency is it supposed to be on? The 49 mhz band is out, limited range, 27 mhz is out, interference from CB radios. There is commercial equipment using the frequencies in between the channels we use in the 72 mhz band, that's how congested it is. And what if they did find a different band to use. That wouldn't solve anything. There'd still be people flying park flyers that they put together themselves with 72 mhz radios they picked bought at the hobby shop, so whether it's a ready to go park flyer is irrelevant!

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

The new spread-spectrum systems will help a lot... when they finally become available for airplane/heli radios, anyway... I haven't seen any for air yet...

From what I understand, the number of available channels won't increase by much (79 channels for the surface system thats out, now), but these RX/TX systems will be much more immune to random noise and interference (due to the nature of SS), and these systems will scan the available channels and pick a clear one. This means that when you flip on your TX, you won't shoot anyone down, and vice-versa. The liklihood of running out of clear channels in your location are slim to none.

Here's a link to Spektrum, if you haven't seen their RC car modules yet...
http://www.spektrumrc.com

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

<<...so whether its a ready to go park flyer is irrelevant...>>

Perhaps. But many of the folks buying those things wouldn't if they had to do any involved work on it. And that is another of my points; the guy who spends several hundred bucks and invests considerable time assembling and setting up his toy is going to pay more attention to the details and get some experienced help if he can. Bubba will look for the nearest open space and get after it.

I'm not tracking with you regarding your comment about reduced range on 49mHz. We have some 49mHz personal communicator hearing protection/headsets at our firing range that have amazing "range".

Look at some of the micro receivers on 72 mHz. The packaging specifically states that there is limited "range" with this product; i.e., only use it in a park flyer that won't get very far away from you.

I have kept telling myself to get a ham ticket so I can fly on 50 mHz and not worry about it. The only thing that has held me back is the pending discontinuance of the 9Z. When I see where THAT is going, I just may get off the dime and go to six meters.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

According to FCC §95.210 (R/C rule 10): The 49MHz band is limited to 100mW of RF output power, 72MHz (& 75MHz) band is limited to 750mW of power, 27MHz band is limited to 4W (except for 27.255MHz which is limited to 25W)...

So the 49MHz band is much weaker than the 72MHz band, the 27MHz band allows the most power, but you can get hit with CB interference...

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Interesting... you learn something new here every day.

pblgml

My Feedback: (29)

I fly in my back yard, but I own a farm and have 500 acres of farm ground that is my back yard.

Dialarotor

Fly in my side yard and club field a few miles away. Have a USCG chopper pilot nearby that circles his house often on the way to and from sorties. Going to get a surprise someday when he sees me in the area.

thecheatscalc

I just fly in my back yard, although a neighbor hood theirs no one with a real rc plane within miles, besides my brother of course.

polygoo

i fly in my back yard although theres not alot of space to actually "fly", only to hover. I usually fly in my backyard only to test something or to tune engine, etc. otherwise i go to the park.

I ordered a frequency checker which I want to use at the park just in case.

polygoo

I've never heard about that DSM technology until now, that sounds really amazing, when will this be available for helis? I would buy it right now if It was out. also, will it work with futaba stuff? in other words, does this company own the rights to it, or will futaba eventually come out with a system that uses it?

credence

My Feedback: (2)

It's my understanding that SS won't be available for aircraft use untill they overcome some technology hurdles, if they can be overcome at all.

It may be awhile before we see it for aircraft use.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

The company with the SS surface radios makes modules for other brands of radios, including Futaba... if/when they do come out with an air version, they will likely make modules for Futaba's airband radios as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Futaba is working on their own versions of SS radios. I believe we will definitely have SS air radios... it's only a matter of time...

Ross15

I do some flying in my back yard too, its very cramped but it so happens to be the place I learnt to fly my venture 30 in.