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11-09-2002, 12:35 PM
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You leave out some very important aspects of the material that would be quite important...
What thickness is this "mystery material" available in and what are the weights of said material, by thickness per sq. foot or inch???
BTW, since I build Champ cars for a living (indy cars) and am quite familliar with CF, I would say that all of the numbers you quoted are easily eclipsed by CF and properly laid up CF of only a 2mm thickness will withstand your "hand breaking" exercise with 1/4" (stated by you) thickness of the "mystery material"...
Also you don't state the price for available thicknesses, and how much you can supply... If this is a revolutionary new material
, I can't imagine that it will be available in "as much as I need" quantitys for a reasonable price...
I mean that if I needed say 10 2' x 4' sheets of .063" to CNC cut some prototype heli parts, can you supply??? and how soon???
Just some questions...
What thickness is this "mystery material" available in and what are the weights of said material, by thickness per sq. foot or inch???
BTW, since I build Champ cars for a living (indy cars) and am quite familliar with CF, I would say that all of the numbers you quoted are easily eclipsed by CF and properly laid up CF of only a 2mm thickness will withstand your "hand breaking" exercise with 1/4" (stated by you) thickness of the "mystery material"...
Also you don't state the price for available thicknesses, and how much you can supply... If this is a revolutionary new material
, I can't imagine that it will be available in "as much as I need" quantitys for a reasonable price...I mean that if I needed say 10 2' x 4' sheets of .063" to CNC cut some prototype heli parts, can you supply??? and how soon???
Just some questions...
11-09-2002, 12:53 PM
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I would be interested in finding out more about the material. Weight will be a factor-rigidness pertaining to hairline fracture issues is a concern. I am starting to make my own Carbon Fiber parts for my tail fins on my own helis. I had rather make my own than pay the higher cost on parts. Even though some of these parts are cut by manuf. with a very expensive & clean process utilizing water cutting is very percise. I have the tooling to accurately cut my own even though it takes time to get these within proper specs.
PM me about the material, I'll listen to evaluate and I know my CF and most every composite known to GM.
PM me about the material, I'll listen to evaluate and I know my CF and most every composite known to GM.
11-09-2002, 01:16 PM
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Why the big mystery marketing ploy? Are you one of us in the heli brotherhood? If you are then you wouldn't play this "game" of not revealing what the material is. If the material is "classified", well then you'd be a goober for talking about it on a worldwide forum.
On the otherhand if this is a business venture or money making attempt on your part then clearly state it. We wouldn't have a problem with someone making money off of something that we can use.
There are soem very knowledgeable people on this forum as evidenced bt twguns reponse. If your material is good someone will "reveal" what it is anyway. So just spill the beans and tell us up front to save everyone the hassle.
Vince D
On the otherhand if this is a business venture or money making attempt on your part then clearly state it. We wouldn't have a problem with someone making money off of something that we can use.
There are soem very knowledgeable people on this forum as evidenced bt twguns reponse. If your material is good someone will "reveal" what it is anyway. So just spill the beans and tell us up front to save everyone the hassle.
Vince D
11-09-2002, 01:44 PM
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Good read here on CF types-testing.
http://www.larc.nasa.gov/research/in...structures.htm
There are some ne reinforced polymers as well.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0912070234.htm
http://www.larc.nasa.gov/research/in...structures.htm
There are some ne reinforced polymers as well.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0912070234.htm
11-09-2002, 05:04 PM
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a 1/4" thick of G10 of his dimensions would also be near impossible to break.....
..i'm ok with his not revealing what the material is as it may be material industry people may not want the general public to acquire- but I hope he can sell sheets of it in popular current frame thicknesses (2mm-3mm-4mm)
OK Warlock- u have out attention- any more remarks or figures?
..i'm ok with his not revealing what the material is as it may be material industry people may not want the general public to acquire- but I hope he can sell sheets of it in popular current frame thicknesses (2mm-3mm-4mm)
OK Warlock- u have out attention- any more remarks or figures?
11-10-2002, 12:38 AM
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Hi there folks....
The material is based on acetal homopolymers (Spelling correct I hope.)
I DO NOT KNOW what the proper name is....
I DO NOT KNOW where it comes from...
A family member supplies it to me. His company uses it in industrial robotics and machinery. I can get it from him as long as he continues working for the same company.
He explained to me that it is no available to the general public because there is only one manufacturer in the world. They sell tens of thousands of dollars worth every day. I guess selling just a square foot of it to a guy in Winnipeg or Wichita is just not worth it to them.
I was assured it is legal for ANYONE to own.
It comes in varying thicknesses.... (BUT NOT IN METRIC FOR SOME REASON!!!!) The smallest is 1/32", the thickest in a sheet is 1/4". I will try to find out if it can be ordered in blocks.....
No secrecy here folks, just sharing an interesting find..... As I said, I WILL SUPPLY A SAMPLE FOR FREE. I am asking $4 for the packing envelope, postage and handling.
PLEASE NOTICE my Trader Karma. I deal very honestly, and try to represent VERY accurately. Please, if you have any more questions, I'll try to answer them as time permits.....
The material is based on acetal homopolymers (Spelling correct I hope.)
I DO NOT KNOW what the proper name is....
I DO NOT KNOW where it comes from...
A family member supplies it to me. His company uses it in industrial robotics and machinery. I can get it from him as long as he continues working for the same company.
He explained to me that it is no available to the general public because there is only one manufacturer in the world. They sell tens of thousands of dollars worth every day. I guess selling just a square foot of it to a guy in Winnipeg or Wichita is just not worth it to them.
I was assured it is legal for ANYONE to own.
It comes in varying thicknesses.... (BUT NOT IN METRIC FOR SOME REASON!!!!) The smallest is 1/32", the thickest in a sheet is 1/4". I will try to find out if it can be ordered in blocks.....
No secrecy here folks, just sharing an interesting find..... As I said, I WILL SUPPLY A SAMPLE FOR FREE. I am asking $4 for the packing envelope, postage and handling.
PLEASE NOTICE my Trader Karma. I deal very honestly, and try to represent VERY accurately. Please, if you have any more questions, I'll try to answer them as time permits.....
11-10-2002, 01:30 AM
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Well if it's main use is for robotics and industrial machines, it's probably not of the lightest make up... The parameters you stated in the first post certainly don't "blow carbon fiber out of the water"... As a matter of fact the correct carbon fiber will stand degrees Fahrenheit into the 1000 + range (brake rotors on our race cars for example) and the strength properties of CF are way higher than the ones you posted for the "mystery material"...
My guess is that if this was the super replacement for CF, it would be widely used in the aerospace industry (and high end racing industry as well) in place of CF...
I'm sure that it is probably good stuff, but a replacement for CF would take a bit...
The main thing that throws up a flag for me is that you don't seem to know what the properties are for CF and you jump up and make a statement that the "mystery material" "blows it out of the water"...
Go figure...
My guess is that if this was the super replacement for CF, it would be widely used in the aerospace industry (and high end racing industry as well) in place of CF...
I'm sure that it is probably good stuff, but a replacement for CF would take a bit...
The main thing that throws up a flag for me is that you don't seem to know what the properties are for CF and you jump up and make a statement that the "mystery material" "blows it out of the water"...
Go figure...
11-10-2002, 12:01 PM
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The statement "blows carbon fiber out of the water" is a reference to its ease to work with, not simply its characteristics. Having worked with quite a bit of carbon fiber, I am familiar with its general qualities, and to me, it does blow carbon fiber out of the water. I see that none of you doubting toms are interested in trying a sample, you just feel the need to criticize what you don't understand....
Also, I have no digital scale, but it is similar in weight to carbon fiber....
No offense taken...
Also, I have no digital scale, but it is similar in weight to carbon fiber....
No offense taken...
11-10-2002, 04:52 PM
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Sounds like Derlin resin........Why the tight lips? I've been building spacecrafts for over 20 years, if I knew of some miracle product, I'd be sharing openly (if it wasn't a company secret)
TIM!!! You build Champ cars- damn boy! Talk about dream jobs (at least for me). Do you work with a chassis builder or a team?
Hey, if my wife goes for it (ha!) I'll gladly quit my job and do some flunky duties around the shop just to be around those cars.
Tom
TIM!!! You build Champ cars- damn boy! Talk about dream jobs (at least for me). Do you work with a chassis builder or a team?
Hey, if my wife goes for it (ha!) I'll gladly quit my job and do some flunky duties around the shop just to be around those cars.
Tom
11-10-2002, 06:52 PM
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I work for a team... Was with PacWest for the last 3.5 years till they went down mid season... Contracted to RedBull Cheever for a bit and soon to go to ??? (can't say right now)...
Believe me, it's just a job, although a cool one, after a while... I've been working on indy cars for 17 years now...
Believe me, it's just a job, although a cool one, after a while... I've been working on indy cars for 17 years now...
11-10-2002, 07:33 PM
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Well good luck in whatever team you pick. I've been an Indy car nut my whole life. I got to hang around and help friends who run SCCA and NHRA. I did fabrication and "problem solving" on satellites and rocket guidance systems, probably all the same materials and demands as on modern Indy cars, (weight, heat, vibration fatigue, ect) so your's is still on my short list of dream jobs.
Tom
Tom
11-11-2002, 02:29 AM
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I have learned that the material IS used in NASA. Also, tried to burn with a blowtorch today. Took 40 seconds for it to BEGIN to melt. Attached it to vise on workbench and smacked it with a hammer. It DID NOT break! Weird stuff..... My -brother-in-law WON"T tell me where his company gets it. He only tells me the specs on it....
He aslo explained that common citizens can't buy it, because the only manufacturer deals in tens of thousands of square feet every day. He says they don't bother selling it to "regular people".
I will keep pressing him and try to see what exactly it is...
He aslo explained that common citizens can't buy it, because the only manufacturer deals in tens of thousands of square feet every day. He says they don't bother selling it to "regular people".
I will keep pressing him and try to see what exactly it is...
11-11-2002, 02:38 AM
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OK, just because it's used by NASA doesn't make it special. NASA also uses those little packets of Fancy Ketchup (Catsup, whatever). And being invented by NASA doesn't make it amaizing either. I mean look at Tang and Velcro! 
Just a little pet peeve of mine. NASA may be a GREAT organization but lets not pretend to worship the ground they launch off of to sell a product. (A "swiss" eggshell foam bed comes to mind here)
Just a little pet peeve of mine. NASA may be a GREAT organization but lets not pretend to worship the ground they launch off of to sell a product. (A "swiss" eggshell foam bed comes to mind here)
11-11-2002, 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by RS2K
OK, just because it's used by NASA doesn't make it special. NASA also uses those little packets of Fancy Ketchup (Catsup, whatever). And being invented by NASA doesn't make it amaizing either. I mean look at Tang and Velcro! Just a little pet peeve of mine. NASA may be a GREAT organization but lets not pretend to worship the ground they launch off of to sell a product. (A "swiss" eggshell foam bed comes to mind here)
OK, just because it's used by NASA doesn't make it special. NASA also uses those little packets of Fancy Ketchup (Catsup, whatever). And being invented by NASA doesn't make it amaizing either. I mean look at Tang and Velcro!
Just a little pet peeve of mine. NASA may be a GREAT organization but lets not pretend to worship the ground they launch off of to sell a product. (A "swiss" eggshell foam bed comes to mind here)
Let's not forget that when challenged with the need for a writing instrument that worked in space, NASA spent millions developing a pen....the Russians used a pencil.
11-12-2002, 04:16 AM
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GOOD POINT!!!
According to my brother-in-law, the material is similar to "Delrin". He says there is no brand name for it, but that it is labeled on their requisition forms as such:
acetal homopolymer/carbon composite. Ref: CA1301.ha
Hope this helps...
According to my brother-in-law, the material is similar to "Delrin". He says there is no brand name for it, but that it is labeled on their requisition forms as such:
acetal homopolymer/carbon composite. Ref: CA1301.ha
Hope this helps...
11-12-2002, 08:37 PM
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....get us sheets that we can cut into frames (as in stacked frames) and I'd bet you'd have some takers- you can count me in.
Hmm I think my frames are 3mm thick...or was that 2mm?
Let us know how u intend to sell them, sheets, pairs etc and at what dimensions- this way we'll know if they're applicable to what we'd like to use them for....dont forget price!
Hmm I think my frames are 3mm thick...or was that 2mm?
Let us know how u intend to sell them, sheets, pairs etc and at what dimensions- this way we'll know if they're applicable to what we'd like to use them for....dont forget price!
