I got a rip in the covering on my Raptor main blades. There isn't any wood damage or anything. It just looks like the blade covering ripped from the edge. Can I rip off the old stuff and recover them? Can I use Monokote? I got Rays book and he uses FasCal which he describes as "like high quality shelf paper." No place local that I know of that would have this stuff. Any ideas?

John B

Well, twenty years ago that is all we had, tell ray to revise is book, oh, and while your telling him about the blade covering, mention dropping the 6 volt battery pack thing. Try to find some heat shrink and do both blades at the same time or you will have a big messy unbalanced rotor. Try calling Rick's www.ronlund.com if they don't have any they will tell you were to go.


Fred

Fascal is a clear sticky backed film. I think it was developed for photo laminating 20+ years ago. back in the 80's it was commonly used as a covering for CL combat models. It has some heat shrinkage but not as much as some of todays coverings. It's very strong and added a lot of strength to the airframes. I have found it on the net but can't find a local supplier anymore. I still have 10-20 foot but that doesn't go very far when covering planes. If you can find it, I'd use it over heatshrink. At the tip speed a heli blade runs, the heat shrink can actually stretch and separate from the blade airfoil in a high load situation. This is really mostly theory but I know it happens to some degree with all heatshrinks. It may not have enough effect to ever be felt while flying but if you can use something that sticks to the blade surface it can't lift.
Later,,,basmntdweller

There are 2 things that work for recovering stock Raptor blades both 30 and 60 size.
Ultrakote "Plus" - which is a sticky back heat sensitive film available in many colors and Century Heli heat shrink blade covers which come in 30 and 60 size black or white only.

I use the heatshrink that is used to bild battery packs it works good and you could probably get it @ your local hobbie shop. whene you use it cut it about 6 inches longer than the blade for shrinquing purposes

Heat shrink sux, big-time. It is for those who don't want to take the time to do a nice set of blades. And you guys who fit this description, don't be offended. I'm NOT criticising; just making a comment.

Anyway, it can and does lift away from the upper surface of the blade under flight loads. Your first clue is a noticeable out-of-track condition. This is due to the blade that has the stuff lifting away has lost it's efficiency. On severe cases, you hear the blades fighting each other for cyclic authority. It doesn't happen all the time; but it does happen.

Woodies covered in heat shrink are cheap, and just the ticket for someone who crashes a lot- whatever the cause of that may be. But if you want to do a more careful, efficient job without painting, Miniature AirCraft still sells their excellent blade covering. It stays down, and lasts forever. The drawback to this is that the root and tip ends of the blade are left exposed, and need to be sealed to prevent moisture migration. Three or four coats of good old clear dope do the trick here; but again, this is more trouble than a lot of folks are willing to go to.

I guess it has to do with the difference between a modeler and a hobbyist. The hobbyist just wants to play with his toy (fly it) and is not the least bit interested in tinkering, etc. The modeler enjoys the playing, but also derives as much satisfaction out of carefully crafting a nice set of woodies, or doing a killer paint job on a canopy, or tweaking his machine to be absolutely smooth, or whatever.

Steve

Steve, blades were covered for years with shrink covering with no real problems, until people started going to wider blades. The nationals were won several times in the mid to late eighties with blades covered with heat shrink, and we were doing a lot more than hovering. I never had any problems with blades going out of track or making any more noise than modern blades make. The covering on stock Raptor blades is just a form of heat shrink, and they fly quit nicely. The covering from MA does work quit well, and I would consider it a must for really wide cord blades, but blades as narrow as the R30 woodies should work alright recovered in heat shrink. BTW, back when I used shrink to cover blades, I've had people ask if they were made of plastic or fiberglass. You can put craftmanship into anything, even putting cover on rotor blades.

Well, okay. But I've seen at least a half-dozen cases of cheap woodies (two Raptors and three Concept SRs with kit blades, one unknown set on a Nexus) covered with heat shrink that was lifting away from the upper surface of the blade under flight loads. In all cases, replacing the blades with glass or painted woodies eliminated the out-of-track condition without changing anything else.

Steve

Could you just paint a set of Raptor 30 blades safely? I have not seen anyone local use painted blades, but then again, I haven't seen that many locals!!!

John B.

Ultracote has a carbon fiber pattern avalible. It makes wood blades look like the real thing.

Fourbits

John B.,

Yes, you can paint or use another sealer on woodies. But unless you enjoy doing that sort of thing, it is more trouble than it is worth. There are many composite (fiberglass, carbon fiber, or a combination of the two) blades out there that are not expensive and of good quality.

Once, I ripped the heat shrink off a set and used finishing epoxy to seal them with. The sanding and re-coating got to be rather tedious.

Balance and matching weights are more important than what the blade is made of or covered with. The most expensive set of c/f blades with the CGs off will not "fly' as good as a set of cheap woodies that have been matched up properly.

The woodies mentioned above were a real chore to get matched up. I think that is because the various densities of wood used in the blades absorbed the resin at different rates; plus, there is no way that you can apply a perfectly uniform amount of material (paint, etc.) to the blades in the same places. I weighed the raw wood blades before starting; there was a gram difference. After the final coat of resin was sanded smooth, the difference had jumped to 2.2 grams. That is a very significant amount, especially on 53cm 30 blades. I had to use lead split shot sinker weights at the CG to get them right. That worked, but I was always worried about the lead detaching itself in flight. Lots of folks do this with no drama. But it makes me nervous.

The MA blade covering material eliminates all of this hassle. Naturally, you want the blades as close as possible BEFORE you make the effort. Nowadys, I won't even bother with a set that is one or more grams out. And the clear dope that I use to seal the exposed wood seems to soak into the wood at a uniform rate.

Here's the bottom line; unless you have the equipment (a good scale and a T-bar, or Koll Rotor-Pro; the so-called teetering "balancers" aren't of much value, IMO) and the knowledge to precisely balance a set of blades, you're much better off spending the extra bucks on a good set of composite blades. Many of these are true "bolt on and fly"; plus, a slight difference in weight or CG is not as critical on 30 blades as it will be on larger sizes.

That's why so many people have no major problems with the cheap woodies most 30 kits come with; a combination of plastic heads and frames and lower mass/inertia tends to absorb the slight imbalances of a less-than-perfect set of cheap woodies. And that's good news for the beginner.

Steve

Regular heat shrink films like Ultracote and Monokote will not work for very long and that carbon fiber looking film mentioned above is regular Ultracote. What is needed is a sticky back film like Ultracote Plus or Monokote trim sheets or the heat shrink tube type covering I mentioned above all of which look very nice when properly done with care and properly maintained as well.

<<..what is needed is a sticky-back film...>>

Agreed. While I haven't tried MonoKote or UltraCote trim sheets on rotor blades, I have used it on plank fuselages and wings.

From that experience, my opinion is that the adhesive-backed sheets MA sells is still superior for blades. Here's why:

The MonoKote trim is quite thick and not very pliable. It doesn't do curves worth a hoot. OTOH, it doesn't "fold on itself" (i.e., wrinkle) as easily as the UltraCote does.

The UltraCote is more pliable, but if you have the slightest misalignment you get a felony wrinkle; and it AIN'T coming out.

The MA stuff is somewhere in between these two. It will wrinkle if badly misaligned, but you have a shot at smoothing it out.

Steve

I am finding a lot of good info in this forum. I am learning things even though I can't get out and fly. Great weather for January, but no gyro I have been waiting for 2 GY401's to get here from being backordered!

Thanks again for the great posts!

John B.

OK, I may get some flak for this one, but back when I started, I was, shall we say on a limited budget. The clear covering on a set of raptor blades ripped. I solved the problem with good old fashion packaging tape. This repair lasted until I actually broke the blades trying to do a sideways landing.

And Yes I used raptor(Thumder tigher) blades on my Ergo30. They fit, and they were in stock, so why not. But I used good clear packaging tape to fix all my tears in the covered wood blades. A little re-balancing, and all was well.

I now only use fiberglass blades, since they are so cheap. And I would recomend that everybody use them once they are past the hovering stage. They are superior in performance, and no need for all that balancing crap. I do, however check them before I put them on, but I have not ahd a set yet that needed any work. I even take them to work and weigh them.

So, lets be honest, If you are learning the packaging tape will probably outlast the blades anyway, and once you are past the learning part, go for the fiberglass ones. They are worth every penny.


Oh yeah, and once time at band camp......Just kidding
One time I even used the fiberglass reinforced tape to completely cover the entire blade, Just apply it, and hit it witht the heat gun, and once the adhesive melts into the wood blade it will not come off, just make sure that the overlap is not pointing forward. It will work.

Hey Brian--as a person beyond hover into fff, I was interested in your comment about fiberglass blades. What in fact does a "good blade" do that a woodie doesn't and is there a reason woodies aren't good blades? Also, I've covered blades with heat shrink covering from Gr8 Lakes and it looks great--shrinks up to a really nice and tight finish. Can't vouch for how it works relative to others because I've only flown with covered blades, but it's only 2 bucks--so hard to beat.

Tom

P.P.

I'm thinking safety issues. Im sure that covering wood blades are fine. I've done my share on MA's (tech specialitys) in the past. But, what a pain in the butt! You sure there is no stress damage to the blade? How did it get ripped anyway?

New set of stock wood blades are what? 26 Bucks?

I agree with Ergo60 on the Fiberglass blades!
SAB's are about what 50 bucks for a set?
Carbon fiber blades like "V" blades are about 100 bucks.
I like my CF Zig-Saws for 80 bucks!

Anyway, You just dropped about 600 bucks for 2 401 gyros. I figure 1 for the tail and 1 for the right/left cyclic.

Whichever you chose, keep it safe!

Jeff

Tom and Jesse,

After you hit a certian point in flying, (I have no idea when this is ) you can start to notice diffrent charactistics of diffrent blades.

Some of the blades that by buddy hates, I love!

Diffrent weights act diffrently, now the placement of the weights makes big diffrences as well. As my last post indicated, I like my Zig-Saws. Because, I like how snappy they are. They are very lightweight! Like 95 grams! yet with the weight the do have and where it is placed makes them auto extreamly well for 30 sized! Inverted and looping autos, no problem with them. I Couldn't do that with stock wood blades.

Getting into FF, you might notice how one set of blades may want to pitch up, and another set doesn't. Just alot of personal taste here. Stick with the less expensive woodies till you get into some aerobatics, then experiment. Once you start doing Auto's, you will see the bigest diffrences.


Jeff

A company called Revolution makes a heli blade covering material that works extremely well. It is made for just covering blades. It is available in several colors and is distributed by Horizon Hobbies. Very inexpensive and you get enough for probably 2 sets of 60 blades. Part number RVO0110 White, RVO0111 Red , RVO0112 Yellow, RVO0113 Black . I have used it several times on Raptor blades with absolutely no problems.

Hitch-Hiker,

As far as I can tell, the rip in the covering started at the tip and ripped from front to back. I think it just started from the front edge. But I may just scrap that blade for a set of fiberglass blades. Are SAB's the way to go? This is for a Raptor 30.

I have been waiting for the GY401's for a while (well, Christmas anyway). One for the Raptor and one for the Freya I am building! When I got home yesterday the wife says the hobby shop called and they're in!

Naturally, now that my gyro is here, for the last three days we have had freezing rain I picked 1" thick sheets of ice off of my truck yesterday so I could drive home. Talk about nasty!!!

John B.

FWIW, i "CA" my blades. Cover them in a coat of cyanocrylate, and add some lead tip weights. They auto good, and can do any aerobatics the raptor can handle. But then again i am a "modeler, not a hobbiest"

Hey Hitch-Hicker: I think you make a good point ( how did the covering get ripped?) It has been my experiance with covered blades to keep the covering tight, check the covering every now and then and make shure they havn't stretched out at all and if they have then hit them with the heat gun and retighten them.

Also I think that the opinion that Steve makes is the cause of the rip in the covering. If the covering has slack or has stretched and is lifting from the surface of the blade it will rip and just putting some tape on it as a fix doesn't cure the problem. The cure is keeping the covering tight all the time or using a good set of CF's.

Heli on,
Shannon