Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
01-22-2011, 11:52 PM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
ORIGINAL: schroedm
Looks awesome in that scheme.
Now then Mr M, are you going to tell me that for the first time smaller flies better than large?!
Mark
Looks awesome in that scheme.
Now then Mr M, are you going to tell me that for the first time smaller flies better than large?!
Mark
The two Futura's are a different kettle of fish mind. The small 1.9 is more nimble, and allot faster. Where as the 2.5m is more floaty, and gives you allot more time through manoeuvres which means it stays looking big through most of the flight. I have a 2.5 coming. Eventually! ( When dear customers stop deciding they need to have a Futura in their lives and need it in time for this summer, and dont want to wait
) I was worried that I would fly the 1.9 and no longer want the big boy, but I still see room in my life for both ( Happily) 
01-23-2011, 12:10 AM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
ORIGINAL: Duncan
Ah you haven't read all of the thread then 
. We spotted it at about 3.30am and then forgot to put it on, I think being half asleep might of had something to do with it. Now Sverrir has bought it, it's classed as intentional LOL
ORIGINAL: vease
Is the missing dark blue stripe on the left wing intentional?
Is the missing dark blue stripe on the left wing intentional?
. We spotted it at about 3.30am and then forgot to put it on, I think being half asleep might of had something to do with it. Now Sverrir has bought it, it's classed as intentional LOL
Thought you'd say something like it was lost at the top of the first ever KE loop
Will it be at BJ?
01-23-2011, 02:37 AM
#128
RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
ORIGINAL: Duncan
Ah you haven't read all of the thread then . We spotted it at about 3.30am and then forgot to put it on, I think being half asleep might of had something to do with it. Now Sverrir has bought it, it's classed as intentional LOL
ORIGINAL: vease
Is the missing dark blue stripe on the left wing intentional?
Is the missing dark blue stripe on the left wing intentional?
. We spotted it at about 3.30am and then forgot to put it on, I think being half asleep might of had something to do with it. Now Sverrir has bought it, it's classed as intentional LOL
ORIGINAL: vease
Will it be at BJ?
Will it be at BJ?
01-23-2011, 02:46 AM
#129
Junior Member
RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Hi Ali,
congratulations for the successful maiden.
Can´t wait to fly mine.
Please tell me with position the CG is and what throws you use ?
thanks
Christian
congratulations for the successful maiden.
Can´t wait to fly mine.
Please tell me with position the CG is and what throws you use ?
thanks
Christian
01-23-2011, 07:52 AM
#130
RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Ali,
I know its a little unfair to compare, but could you compare the 1.9 to flying the traditional Flash? I dont want to start a war. I just want an opinion from a very experienced pilot or two. I still have my Tbird flash, so was contemplating a 2011/2012 project decision. That decision will be made after flying the flash this year a little more.
I know up front, cant lose either way, but I do like that the Futura is not something you see at all in the states just yet..
I know its a little unfair to compare, but could you compare the 1.9 to flying the traditional Flash? I dont want to start a war. I just want an opinion from a very experienced pilot or two. I still have my Tbird flash, so was contemplating a 2011/2012 project decision. That decision will be made after flying the flash this year a little more.
I know up front, cant lose either way, but I do like that the Futura is not something you see at all in the states just yet..
01-23-2011, 11:09 AM
#131
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Goose.
The Futura is without a doubt the most pure flying jet that I have ever flown. Knife edge is effortless, and requires on the smallest of inputs. I could quite happily leave this jet with zero rudder- elev or rudder to aileron mix and still be happy. Which is saying something, as I am a firm believer in using the radios mixing capabilities to make for a nice flying plane if need be.
You notice the speed at which the 1.9 presents itself, in that it seems to be quite slow, but I think its more a perception thing, as hopefully the video will show that its no slouch. The P-80 was really making this jet scoot, and for me it was plenty fast enough for a sport jet. Any faster and I find they eat so much sky, that it becomes hard fitting anything into anything other than a huge pattern
The Flash is a great jet, but I will be open and say that I have never been its biggest fan. I dont like big fat wing sections on fast moving aircraft. I just find it leads to a less than locked feel at times. For me the Flash is a great weekend sports model. I hate to use the term beater, as it sound derogatory, but it fits with what I am trying to say. The Futura on the other hand is just as forgiving ( I think, as I have not really explored every aspect in just two flights ) Yet it just feels... some what cleaner, smoother and more precise to fly. I guess if I had to make similarities, I would draw back to our days of flying prop models. I would say that the flash is just like your favourite 40-60 sport model that you take out on a weekend and just have blast with. The Futura is like the first time you got a chance to fly a properly set up, competition grade F3A model!
I hope that makes sense?
Regards Al
The Futura is without a doubt the most pure flying jet that I have ever flown. Knife edge is effortless, and requires on the smallest of inputs. I could quite happily leave this jet with zero rudder- elev or rudder to aileron mix and still be happy. Which is saying something, as I am a firm believer in using the radios mixing capabilities to make for a nice flying plane if need be.
You notice the speed at which the 1.9 presents itself, in that it seems to be quite slow, but I think its more a perception thing, as hopefully the video will show that its no slouch. The P-80 was really making this jet scoot, and for me it was plenty fast enough for a sport jet. Any faster and I find they eat so much sky, that it becomes hard fitting anything into anything other than a huge pattern
The Flash is a great jet, but I will be open and say that I have never been its biggest fan. I dont like big fat wing sections on fast moving aircraft. I just find it leads to a less than locked feel at times. For me the Flash is a great weekend sports model. I hate to use the term beater, as it sound derogatory, but it fits with what I am trying to say. The Futura on the other hand is just as forgiving ( I think, as I have not really explored every aspect in just two flights ) Yet it just feels... some what cleaner, smoother and more precise to fly. I guess if I had to make similarities, I would draw back to our days of flying prop models. I would say that the flash is just like your favourite 40-60 sport model that you take out on a weekend and just have blast with. The Futura is like the first time you got a chance to fly a properly set up, competition grade F3A model!
I hope that makes sense?
Regards Al
01-23-2011, 11:21 AM
#132
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Christian Hi,
Thankyou, and good luck with yours, I am sure you will love it.
Centre of Gravity and Controls.... I get asked this so often, and I really am going to change my approach. As I never really measure either, unless I am flying an unusual design. Something like the Futura, which has a conventional plan form, I know should not hold too many surprises. SO I take a guess at where the centre of gravity should be, and then fly it and see what I think.
Center of gravity is such an individual thing. A bit like control throws as well. So many people like there models set up to fly in different ways. I have seen cases of people setting a model up as one person said, flying it and saying the model was junk. It did not fly well. When all it took was some adjustment to C of G and control throws and they changed their mind totally. Right now, I have no weight added to my 1.9. I have 2 x 6 volt 2000 mah AA size Eneloop Nimh batteries in the area below the front of the canopy. I did have a 2 cell 3700 Mah Lipo in that area too, but in the first two flights the model felt just slightly nose heavy. I have changed this now and have a smaller 2000 mah 2 cell lipo now back sat on top of the reviver. When I find a centre of Gravity that I like, I will be in touch. I tend to like my models set slightly nose heavy. I know that allot of the aerobatic guys run a really rearward C of G which means the plane requires less input in rolling manoeuvres ( Especially elevator when inverted) As this is more pure. I just dont like it that way, I like to hold a small amount of down when the model is rolled upside down. I also find it makes for a more solid feel to the elevator response in general. Especially as speed increases.
Control throws. I tend to run my models with lots of movement. My general set up process is that I get as much movement as I can mechanically from each control surfaces, and then set my 12X rates at 100% top 75% middle and 50% low rate. Then I play from there. So far the small Futura has proven to be extremely fast in roll at 100% rate. I tend to fly it at 75%, and then 50% for the long slow rollers.
Elevator felt fine to me at 100% but lets see how that changes as I shift the C of G back.
The next day out should see me happy with the set up of control and balance. When I do I will try to post on here two set ups. One for aggressive flying, and the other for smooth.
Regards Al
Thankyou, and good luck with yours, I am sure you will love it.
Centre of Gravity and Controls....
I get asked this so often, and I really am going to change my approach. As I never really measure either, unless I am flying an unusual design. Something like the Futura, which has a conventional plan form, I know should not hold too many surprises. SO I take a guess at where the centre of gravity should be, and then fly it and see what I think. Center of gravity is such an individual thing. A bit like control throws as well. So many people like there models set up to fly in different ways. I have seen cases of people setting a model up as one person said, flying it and saying the model was junk. It did not fly well. When all it took was some adjustment to C of G and control throws and they changed their mind totally. Right now, I have no weight added to my 1.9. I have 2 x 6 volt 2000 mah AA size Eneloop Nimh batteries in the area below the front of the canopy. I did have a 2 cell 3700 Mah Lipo in that area too, but in the first two flights the model felt just slightly nose heavy. I have changed this now and have a smaller 2000 mah 2 cell lipo now back sat on top of the reviver. When I find a centre of Gravity that I like, I will be in touch. I tend to like my models set slightly nose heavy. I know that allot of the aerobatic guys run a really rearward C of G which means the plane requires less input in rolling manoeuvres ( Especially elevator when inverted) As this is more pure. I just dont like it that way, I like to hold a small amount of down when the model is rolled upside down. I also find it makes for a more solid feel to the elevator response in general. Especially as speed increases.
Control throws. I tend to run my models with lots of movement. My general set up process is that I get as much movement as I can mechanically from each control surfaces, and then set my 12X rates at 100% top 75% middle and 50% low rate. Then I play from there. So far the small Futura has proven to be extremely fast in roll at 100% rate. I tend to fly it at 75%, and then 50% for the long slow rollers.
Elevator felt fine to me at 100% but lets see how that changes as I shift the C of G back.
The next day out should see me happy with the set up of control and balance. When I do I will try to post on here two set ups. One for aggressive flying, and the other for smooth.
Regards Al
01-23-2011, 01:57 PM
#133
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Video taken on Saturday 22nd, dull and windy as Ali says but something to give you an idea of its flying abilities....
Thanks to Dom for his work creating this.
marcs
[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiwv19SyL_w[/link]
Thanks to Dom for his work creating this.
marcs
[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiwv19SyL_w[/link]
01-24-2011, 12:18 AM
#134
RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Thanks Marc.
Knife edge loop with a jet! [X(] Is that a first? Couldn't quite believe it when I watched the vid the first time.
Wonder if one of these would suit a 127mm 14S EDF conversion. Hmmm.
Knife edge loop with a jet! [X(] Is that a first? Couldn't quite believe it when I watched the vid the first time.
Wonder if one of these would suit a 127mm 14S EDF conversion. Hmmm.
01-24-2011, 12:59 AM
#135
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Hi Dom, Thanks allot for your editing efforts. Its much appreciated.
The knifed edge loop surprised me as well. I certainly haven't seen a jet do that before. There is also another manoeuvre that the Futura start to do which I remember thinking... Thats different. I will wait till the next round of flights and some video before I say any more about that.
As for EDF.... If anyone can, you can Dom
Regards Al
The knifed edge loop surprised me as well. I certainly haven't seen a jet do that before. There is also another manoeuvre that the Futura start to do which I remember thinking... Thats different. I will wait till the next round of flights and some video before I say any more about that.
As for EDF.... If anyone can, you can Dom
Regards Al
01-24-2011, 09:12 AM
#137
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
ORIGINAL: jlmaviation
How much building is already done on the Futura when you receive the kit?
Also, is there a distributor in the US for the kits?
How much building is already done on the Futura when you receive the kit?
Also, is there a distributor in the US for the kits?
[link]http://vogelsang-aeroscale.com/jets.html[/link]
Richard
01-25-2011, 08:18 AM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Hatchers Hangar is full of Futura's. The 2 large ones go into the paint shop on Saturday and the 2 small ones just arrived today. Can't wait to get this in the air.
The 2 large ones will get Jet Central Mammoth's. and the 2 small ones will get Jet Central Cheetah's.
The 2 large ones will get Jet Central Mammoth's. and the 2 small ones will get Jet Central Cheetah's.
01-25-2011, 06:28 PM
#142
RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
ORIGINAL: Ali
Goose.
The Futura is without a doubt the most pure flying jet that I have ever flown. Knife edge is effortless, and requires on the smallest of inputs. I could quite happily leave this jet with zero rudder- elev or rudder to aileron mix and still be happy. Which is saying something, as I am a firm believer in using the radios mixing capabilities to make for a nice flying plane if need be.
You notice the speed at which the 1.9 presents itself, in that it seems to be quite slow, but I think its more a perception thing, as hopefully the video will show that its no slouch. The P-80 was really making this jet scoot, and for me it was plenty fast enough for a sport jet. Any faster and I find they eat so much sky, that it becomes hard fitting anything into anything other than a huge pattern
The Flash is a great jet, but I will be open and say that I have never been its biggest fan. I dont like big fat wing sections on fast moving aircraft. I just find it leads to a less than locked feel at times. For me the Flash is a great weekend sports model. I hate to use the term beater, as it sound derogatory, but it fits with what I am trying to say. The Futura on the other hand is just as forgiving ( I think, as I have not really explored every aspect in just two flights ) Yet it just feels... some what cleaner, smoother and more precise to fly. I guess if I had to make similarities, I would draw back to our days of flying prop models. I would say that the flash is just like your favourite 40-60 sport model that you take out on a weekend and just have blast with. The Futura is like the first time you got a chance to fly a properly set up, competition grade F3A model!
I hope that makes sense?
Regards Al
Goose.
The Futura is without a doubt the most pure flying jet that I have ever flown. Knife edge is effortless, and requires on the smallest of inputs. I could quite happily leave this jet with zero rudder- elev or rudder to aileron mix and still be happy. Which is saying something, as I am a firm believer in using the radios mixing capabilities to make for a nice flying plane if need be.
You notice the speed at which the 1.9 presents itself, in that it seems to be quite slow, but I think its more a perception thing, as hopefully the video will show that its no slouch. The P-80 was really making this jet scoot, and for me it was plenty fast enough for a sport jet. Any faster and I find they eat so much sky, that it becomes hard fitting anything into anything other than a huge pattern
The Flash is a great jet, but I will be open and say that I have never been its biggest fan. I dont like big fat wing sections on fast moving aircraft. I just find it leads to a less than locked feel at times. For me the Flash is a great weekend sports model. I hate to use the term beater, as it sound derogatory, but it fits with what I am trying to say. The Futura on the other hand is just as forgiving ( I think, as I have not really explored every aspect in just two flights ) Yet it just feels... some what cleaner, smoother and more precise to fly. I guess if I had to make similarities, I would draw back to our days of flying prop models. I would say that the flash is just like your favourite 40-60 sport model that you take out on a weekend and just have blast with. The Futura is like the first time you got a chance to fly a properly set up, competition grade F3A model!
I hope that makes sense?
Regards Al
01-25-2011, 10:39 PM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
ORIGINAL: turboratt89
so ali how would this be for a first turbine especially since all you need is an 80 ?
so ali how would this be for a first turbine especially since all you need is an 80 ?
Richard
01-27-2011, 02:39 AM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
[/quote]
Well that pretty well summed it up for me... thanks Ali.. well said.. I guess I need them both!!
[/quote]
I like your chain of thought Goose. it's the only way
I can see no reason why the 1.9 would not make an ideal transition from a boomer. It has great slow speed handling. Sure it will bite, but as the video shows. Even is pretty much the worst case ( Wing drop after takeoff due to pilot error, cross wind) It's still very much recoverable. It's easy to see, not too fast, but fast enough! Strong, well engineered retracts with heavy duty trailing link gear. Lots of fuel ( I have enough for 9 mins ) Loads of room, the best access of any jet that I know of, and best of all it all looks like its built to last!
I have been asked by two guys who are enquiring regards a possible EDF conversion. I have taken some photos of the intake and pipe ( as well as measurements) which I will post in a while. I see no reason why the Futura shouldn't make a wonderful EDF, and I look forward to seeing the end result.
Regards Al
Well that pretty well summed it up for me... thanks Ali.. well said.. I guess I need them both!!
[/quote]
I like your chain of thought Goose. it's the only way
I can see no reason why the 1.9 would not make an ideal transition from a boomer. It has great slow speed handling. Sure it will bite, but as the video shows. Even is pretty much the worst case ( Wing drop after takeoff due to pilot error, cross wind) It's still very much recoverable. It's easy to see, not too fast, but fast enough! Strong, well engineered retracts with heavy duty trailing link gear. Lots of fuel ( I have enough for 9 mins ) Loads of room, the best access of any jet that I know of, and best of all it all looks like its built to last!
I have been asked by two guys who are enquiring regards a possible EDF conversion. I have taken some photos of the intake and pipe ( as well as measurements) which I will post in a while. I see no reason why the Futura shouldn't make a wonderful EDF, and I look forward to seeing the end result.
Regards Al
01-27-2011, 02:56 AM
#146
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Intake shape.. I guess it would not be too much of an issue to make it larger.
Right now the measurements are
Bottom edge across 60mm
Top edge across 46mm
Inner vertical edge 85mm
outer vertical edge 113mm
Right now the measurements are
Bottom edge across 60mm
Top edge across 46mm
Inner vertical edge 85mm
outer vertical edge 113mm
01-27-2011, 03:02 AM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
The metal tail cone is easily removed ( BVM Button head screws ) if you needed a larger tailpipe Diameter you could remove the metal cone and this would allow a pipe up to 105mm to be used
01-27-2011, 03:06 AM
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RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Internal shot between the intake and turbine position, of course for EDF I am sure you can move the edf unit rearward somewhat.
01-27-2011, 03:26 AM
#150
RE: Tomahawk Futura 1.9m P-80
Thanks for the measurements Ali. Much appreciated. I'll have to dig out the intake/exhaust requirement for the DS94HST and find if its a match.
Some may think its crazy to consider converting this to EDF but all my local flying sites are noise sensitive and don't allow turbines. EDF is the my only option unfortunatley.
Some may think its crazy to consider converting this to EDF but all my local flying sites are noise sensitive and don't allow turbines. EDF is the my only option unfortunatley.