siclick33

Elevator to reduce the angle of attack simultaneously adding power, then ailerons to roll wings level. Rudder input near the stall risks causing a spin.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

it doesnt matter how far from c g or close you place a gyro.Another myth. "Angle speed" is same everywhere.

Johnnie Red

Summary of all your actions= Broken plane.

While on landing there is no time for jerking controls. One control that is energy efficient is rudder. If you play with ailerons your small energy will be lost in a matter of fragments of seconds and you will stall your bird. It is simple logic. Which part of the airplane is lighter? The tail or the wing? Whatever you move on these surfaces will actualy have the effect on your plane. The right implication of the right controls set your future integrity of your modell airplane. So go get some experience with aerodynamics first and you will expand your modell integrity!

PHIL GREENO

GEEZ that video is depressing !!!!!!!

What are you trying to do make us all take up knitting.

I know things are turning sour in Greece at the moment but come on chill please.

Phil.

siclick33

Johnnie,

As a PPL holder I strongly recommend that you go and do some more slow speed/spin awareness training before you kill yourself. It sounds like you have been taught incorrectly so I would suggest going to a different flying school.

willig10

Johnny Red:
I dont mean to be rude. However you are comparing apples to oranges. Every scenario you have discussed is at "Stall" speed. So in essence it becomes a matter of throttle management. These guys that fly jets know more about throttle management than most. Spool up times on turbines are getting better but the turbines do not have instant throttle response like recip engines do.

I would agree that if you get an airplane too slow regardless of gyro's installed or not it will stall.

These guys that fly jets are very profficient in their flying. They do have to get waiver after all. They know and understand what does and what does not work. It might be wise to take off your blinders and maybe learn a few things from these guys. There are always better ways of doing things. If the gyro will help assist an aircraft so be it. If the plane gets behind the power curve and stalls the gyro is not going to prevent a stall. I believe these guys know how to land a jet as well and they dont stall it to land it unless there has been a mechanical.

my 2 cents

Glenn Williams

Jgwright

Xairflyer

I have used a number of the smaller cheap gyros for the nose wheel. This is a non critical application and there is no doubt the nose wheel on some planes does benefit from a gyro to aid tracking. I too sited mine adjacent to the nose leg servo. The ACT Gyros suggest they are mounted near CG, I have mounted mine forward without much detrimental effect.

Johnny Red

The video of the South African JWM shows the problem of getting used to a combination of heat and high alititude and has nothing to do with gyros. I have not had a plane crash because of a gyro and am not aware of any.

John

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Elevator ok

adding power okey

...but do you mean that in a stall if you wing drops you will add more aileron to level it and wont touch the rudder?[X(]





no comment

siclick33

Yes, exactly. Once you have unstalled the wing with elevator then you can add 'gentle' aileron as you are no longer stalled. Rudder input at this point has the potential for spin.

David Gladwin

Johnie, George you have both got your knickers in an absolute twist over this whole thing with the result that you are talking, well, nonsense, sorry but no other way to describe it !

Ailerons on models with the tiny amount of deflection they use to achieve the results we are seeking, improved roll stability, can totally ignore adverse yaw problems, its a non event, model or fullsize and I say that after flying a whole range of fullsize jets from small trainers to heavy jets, straight wing, swept wing, crescent wing, with and without spoilers, one two and thee yaw dampers and full autostabs. NEVER yet tried to raise wing in a x-wind with rudder, its DANGEROUS in ANY flying machine. (and a 767 in a 35 k gusty x-wind on a filthy, wet night, is a handful)

Almost all of my jets have aileron gyros, work very well indeed, guys:

ACT Fuzzy, Wingo, JRs of all sorts, Futaba 352s and integrated Weatronics gyros, all work a treat.

Regards,

David.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Gyros dont have "then" programing mode. A gyro would have try to corect your wing at the same time. Think about it

cheers

JackD

My Feedback: (4)

On this one, I do agree with you completely... Do you remember the whole thread we had?

And on the adverse yaw, as I told you before: I agree that there is a hypothetical situation where near stall, ailerons will reverse. You try to pick up a wing that is very slow, causing it to stall. However, a gyro moves too little for this to happen in our jets.

Where I'm saying that you guys are absolutely wrong is calling this situation adverse yaw: adverse yaw is a completely different thing, explained by your wikipedia article, myself and a bunch of other people in this thread.. That is why you get so many reactions to your comment

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

I dont forget this kind of threads Jack... , when you say gyro will move little do you mean that gyro will only have efect at high speeds and not for low?


Regarding adverse yaw and aileron reverse efect and the way they conected in a stall senario including an aileron gyro
i try to do my best and explane in post # 94.


...another flight again todaywith no gyro,rock stable smooth landings

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

David I knew you would get a mention for weatcronic in their somewhere!

Johnnie Red

I thank God that most of your time you are flying R/C planes then. If you do not understand the simple facts of aerodynamics. You are writting new chapters in energy efficiency in flight controls. If you are a PPL holder don't you know that ailerons are used when you have plenty of energy in your flight? Didn't they tell you that Rudder is more efficient in low speeds; and even if they haven' t told you - haven't you find out yourself? If you fly 1:1 didn't they tought you what PIO means (Pilot Induced Occilations)? Didn't your instructors mention anything about aborting a landing and going around??? Instead of jerking controls on final if something goes wrong???
Don't judge my skill in flying. I have seen much more than you think. At the video that Gatto has provided to you the first of the airplanes has stalled from high AOA (energy killer) and the use of ailerons for correction that killed all the remaining energy left to this poor airplane...The outcome was a spectacular stall.....
You guys may put whatever you want on your planes. For me and some guys that we want to fly our planes all these gismos are more headaches than help. I am following the saying "make it simple" and the simplier has less worries for troubles and faults if you know what you are flying and how to fly it.

As I told you before you can make it even better. Put in all your controls gyros and gismos ... Make it UAV and let the GPS fly them.

Following your procedure it will be safer. But this ain't R/C Modelling......

This is something that I won't buy. I prefer to fly R/C..... You may spit-fires after my posts but I like flying my planes myself without stupid gismos taking this joy out of me. I fly almost everyday I ENJOY flying, and it's something that most of you that are comming on my back - it's obvious - you are not capable of.

J.R.

Alex48

It's a hobby, whatever floats your boat, does it matter as long as wer're enjoying it?

Is this a stall recovery thread? Be interesting to start one

I've discovered my L39 is much better now it has a gyro on the rudder and I think I can even see the tail waggle on approach on your L39 George but it is hard to see the model in that movie, not that I could of filmed it any better...

I'd recommend a Futaba 351 which I've found to be great it can be used on ailerons with separate channels as mentioned, not used an ACT jobbie so couldn't comment.

If it were me I'd never pick a wing up with the use a rudder but instead you should stop the initial yaw with rudder if the wing has dropped so be it, once the wings are flying again you can then roll level with aileron. This of course pertains to GA type of aircraft but your AFM should always be consulted preferably before the stall

rcand

to obtain maximum efficiency from a gyro, it needs to be mounted on the axis for what you are controlling, that is, the longitudinal axis for ailerons, vertical axis for rudder/nose steering, lateral for elevators.

JackD

My Feedback: (4)

Nope, you can mount them anywhere. That is a typical misconception. Gyros react to angular acceleration, not tangential velocity. Angular acceleration is the same accross the rotating plane, and has nothing to do with the distance from the axis of rotation...


I know is not intuitive, but that's the way it is

There was a whole thread on this, and believe it or not, people ended up agreeing

David Gladwin

Why not, its what I use because it offers an exceptionally useful gyro system in that the software allows one to assign any and all the gyros to any and all function and adjust the gyro sensitivity and direction to each as required. For example my little L39 with its its tiny Smart 8 receiver has the single gyro assigned to rudder and nosewheel steering, different direction and different sensitivity. None of the other gyros I have can do that, you may know some which do !. They are all now for sale as are a heap of matchboxes, all redundant. I have gyro setups on Weatronics receivers on several other models inc my two AW Hawks, Bobcats, Phantom, Revision and will go in my SG Hawk and FC Mig 29 and BVM and Rotkoski Sabres.


Seems a lot of other fliers around the world are discovering and enjoying the power of Weatronics. In the last three weeks I have been helping three guys (there have been many others) with feedback on performance parameters and installation advice. : one Ultra Bandit, one Mibo A10 and a 10 feet long SR71, the culmination of 9 years work, not exactly cheapo foamies ! Its by far the best solution for me and them.


The question was: "Which aeroplane gyros are best'. Question answered !

Regards,

David.

siclick33

Johnnie Red,

I'm not into throwing my qualifications or experience around but it is worth considering that it is just possible that I know more than you do Attacking my supposed lack of knowledge does give me a good giggle though

By all means debate my arguments and suggestions but you are poorly placed telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about[:@]

willig10

I think the guys intentions are good. But since the majority do not agree with him at this point I believe someone is arguing just to argue.

rcand

Then can you explain why, when a friend of mine with a Mebo A-10 had a gyro for nose steering under the canopy did not have appropriate gyro corrections on the take-off roll, but when he mounted it almost on the vertical axis, steering was straight as abullet?

landeck

My Feedback: (1)

I have eight tail draggers with the gyros on the rudder for takeoff. I have them mounted in front of, behind, and on the CG. One is near the firewall. All work well for yaw correction. The only imported thing is that the gryo be mount properly for the verticle axis of the plane since what the gyro measures is the angular velocity around the verticle axis which is the same anywhere in the plane.

Bruce

JackD

My Feedback: (4)

rcand

I can't tell you without knowing the details of the install, but either he changed something else, or the effect is completely psychological (which does happen by the way). But really, analyze the physics, do some research, do some experiments, or anything. Gyros measure angular acceleration, and angular velocity and acceleration are the same in any point of a rotating plane, it doesn't matter if you are and inch or a mile away from the center of rotation.

I know it is not necessarily intuitive, I do ask you to think about it with an open mind.

As a friend told me today while discussing this same subject, if your planes angular velocity and acceleration varies in different place in your plane, then you have some very serious flexing problems haha

Check out this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96..._1/key_/tm.htm

Jack Diaz

My Feedback: (1)

Guys, these threads get very technically complicated and too emotional.
Fortunately the gyros issue is a lot simpler than that, and I will try to explain.

I will not discuss gyros for nose gear stabilization or for dutch roll dampening since that subject is well discussed and accepted.
I will only refer to gyros for ailerons.

Let me first say that up to a couple of months ago I was strongly against gyros for ailerons. I thought that using them was against the Macho man nature
Peter Goldsmith convinced me to try one when we met at Florida Jets this year.
I decided to try it, and this is my finding:

I was expecting Help from the gyro during the flight, like correcting or avoiding mistakes or flaws. But it just didn't happen that way.
What a properly adjusted aileron gyro does, is to allow the pilot to be able now to "see" and "feel" the beauty of his own flight. Honestly, that is a sensation that I don't recall having experimented before.
It is like if the enjoyment valve in your brain gets opened a couple of turns.
I don't know the scientific explanation for this phenomenon, but that is what happens. Probably, your brain was too busy doing thousands of micro-corrections before. I guess!


Needless to say, this magic will only happen if the pilot is already able to fly beautiful "without" a gyro. Otherwise it will be a waste of money; because if any, the gyro will just retard the learning process, while in addition, introducing another component whose behavior under some critical circumstances remains a dark mystery as has been demonstrated throughout this thread. Your probabilities of putting yourself under those critical circumstances should be minimal before the decision of using a gyro.

Regards,
Jack