Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
11-18-2011, 06:59 PM
#301
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
The nozzles are attached to the fuse with 4 wood screws. I applied some ca to the screws during final assembly. But first I painted the inside of the nozzles and the fuse bulkhead black. This looks much better in my opinion. I did them one at a time to show the contrast.
11-18-2011, 07:06 PM
#302
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Now to install the pipe. After years of eyeballing the pipe to see if it was centered, I came up with a great idea. Start by drawing a circle with a compass on some scrap plywood. Next drill a hole in the center of the circle where your compass point was. Sharpen the end of a 4-40 or similar size bolt. Bolt this to the plywood disc using washers and a nut. Tape this assembly to the turbine. Next repeat the processes on a piece of cardboard and then tape that to the pipe.
11-18-2011, 07:11 PM
#304
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
I glued some blocks to the side of the engine rails to accept the wood screws for the pipe straps. Be careful how you angle the straps so the pipe does not float from side to side. Mine is rock solid with no float at all!
11-18-2011, 08:32 PM
#308
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RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Absolutely beautiful Dom! Brilliant work as always 
I will be getting the Sundowners version at some point - you have inspired me all over again LOL
-Spence
I will be getting the Sundowners version at some point - you have inspired me all over again LOL
-Spence
11-19-2011, 09:28 AM
#313
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Next I fit the bottom cover to the tail section. This required some trimming of the stab root to make clearance for the scale stab pivot detail. I was able to remove the material with a piece of 220 glued to a scrap piece of G-10. The tail hook needs to be removable in order to remove the bottom cover. I decided to just add a dowel up front and use a wood screw through the bottom of the hook into the fuse and hardwood block. I painted all the screws on the silver and bronze/ silver areas as well as the hardwood block.
11-19-2011, 12:04 PM
#314
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Make up a spacer the width of the gap you want between the turbine and pipe. Position the turbine in the fuse with the spacer in place. Drill the engine rail to accept 6-32 blind nuts. Permanently bolt the engine rails in place using blue loctite on the bolts. Now temporarily bolt the turbine in place using 6-32 socket heads screws, lock washers and washers. I will use blue loctite on these bolts later during final installation.
11-19-2011, 01:31 PM
#316
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Major problem and I am not happy!
The fuel tanks and turbine do not have enough clearance. With the tanks in place I am not able to fit the turbine back into position. I need about 5/8 clearance below the front cowl..I am trying to decide what my options are.
I do not want to push the turbine back....it would need to go an inch...because that would cause my pipes to stick out past the exhaust nozzles and force me to have to rework everything I just did.
I wonder if I can heat the tanks with a heat gun...they are Kevlar...and then make an impression in them to give me the clearance I need.
I am also wondering If I can push the tanks forward and inch. This would require grinding away the intakes a bit and having the tanks protrude into them a bit. I do not know how critical the air intake is on a turbine. How smooth does the delivery need to be?
Another option is to raise the turbine. You see it here with 1/4" blocks under the rails. Still not enough...look in the mirror it still barley hits. If I went this rout, it will force me to raise the pipe up and then the turbine and the pipe will not be square anymore...they are aligned perfectly square right now.
I am a bit pissed at the moment and have to walk away from the shop. I am open to suggestions......
Thanks,
Dom
The fuel tanks and turbine do not have enough clearance. With the tanks in place I am not able to fit the turbine back into position. I need about 5/8 clearance below the front cowl..I am trying to decide what my options are.
I do not want to push the turbine back....it would need to go an inch...because that would cause my pipes to stick out past the exhaust nozzles and force me to have to rework everything I just did.
I wonder if I can heat the tanks with a heat gun...they are Kevlar...and then make an impression in them to give me the clearance I need.
I am also wondering If I can push the tanks forward and inch. This would require grinding away the intakes a bit and having the tanks protrude into them a bit. I do not know how critical the air intake is on a turbine. How smooth does the delivery need to be?
Another option is to raise the turbine. You see it here with 1/4" blocks under the rails. Still not enough...look in the mirror it still barley hits. If I went this rout, it will force me to raise the pipe up and then the turbine and the pipe will not be square anymore...they are aligned perfectly square right now.
I am a bit pissed at the moment and have to walk away from the shop. I am open to suggestions......
Thanks,
Dom
11-19-2011, 01:55 PM
#317
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
ORIGINAL: MaJ. Woody
Major problem and I am not happy!
The fuel tanks and turbine do not have enough clearance. With the tanks in place I am not able to fit the turbine back into position. I need about 5/8 clearance below the front cowl..I am trying to decide what my options are.
I do not want to push the turbine back....it would need to go an inch...because that would cause my pipes to stick out past the exhaust nozzles and force me to have to rework everything I just did.
I wonder if I can heat the tanks with a heat gun...they are Kevlar...and then make an impression in them to give me the clearance I need.
I am also wondering If I can push the tanks forward and inch. This would require grinding away the intakes a bit and having the tanks protrude into them a bit. I do not know how critical the air intake is on a turbine. How smooth does the delivery need to be?
Another option is to raise the turbine. You see it here with 1/4'' blocks under the rails. Still not enough...look in the mirror it still barley hits. If I went this rout, it will force me to raise the pipe up and then the turbine and the pipe will not be square anymore...they are aligned perfectly square right now.
I am a bit pissed at the moment and have to walk away from the shop. I am open to suggestions......
Thanks,
Dom
Major problem and I am not happy!
The fuel tanks and turbine do not have enough clearance. With the tanks in place I am not able to fit the turbine back into position. I need about 5/8 clearance below the front cowl..I am trying to decide what my options are.
I do not want to push the turbine back....it would need to go an inch...because that would cause my pipes to stick out past the exhaust nozzles and force me to have to rework everything I just did.
I wonder if I can heat the tanks with a heat gun...they are Kevlar...and then make an impression in them to give me the clearance I need.
I am also wondering If I can push the tanks forward and inch. This would require grinding away the intakes a bit and having the tanks protrude into them a bit. I do not know how critical the air intake is on a turbine. How smooth does the delivery need to be?
Another option is to raise the turbine. You see it here with 1/4'' blocks under the rails. Still not enough...look in the mirror it still barley hits. If I went this rout, it will force me to raise the pipe up and then the turbine and the pipe will not be square anymore...they are aligned perfectly square right now.
I am a bit pissed at the moment and have to walk away from the shop. I am open to suggestions......
Thanks,
Dom
I would not try and heat the tanks and deform them - that sounds like a leak waiting to happen to me. I'm not sure raising the turbine is a good solution either.
From everyone I've talked to about this, the airflow into a turbine is not really critical. The turbine gets its thrust from the *very* large acceleration of the air going through it, the actual amount of air that goes through it is not that much - much less than for an equivalent diameter EDF. Thus, the size and shape of the intakes for a turbine are not critical. I would move the tanks forward to clear the turbine.
For those of us who have not built theirs yet (or gotten theirs yet [&o] ) would you recommend installing the turbine further back and leaving the exhaust cones longer to avoid this problem?
Bob
11-19-2011, 02:10 PM
#318
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Hard to say. trimming the exhaust cones was done to make them fit the fuse and not done to locate the turbine and pipe in a certain spot. the large diameter cones just would not fit in the fuse. It was after getting those to fit that I arranged the pipe turbine layout. I am actually very happy with the layout. Everything is very well aligned and neat. I am in favor of grinding away the intakes but lets see what everyone else thinks. After this is sorted out, the next challenge is going to be getting proper fuel delivery from the clunks. The shape of the tanks (especially the front tank) and the location of the holes for the stopper are not optimal. Again, one problem at a time.
11-19-2011, 04:18 PM
#320
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
As much as a PITA as it may be, if it were me personally... I would be raising the turbine & resetting the pipe. Moving the tanks forward or the turbine back will alter the final weight & balance depending on their location in relation to CG. Doesn't look like there is an easy out on this one, but I think raising the turbine would be the lesser of all evils.
11-19-2011, 04:43 PM
#321
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
ORIGINAL: MaJ. Woody
Here is a picture of Mikes F-4 on the left. I can't tell how he has his tanks in place but they look a bit different than mine on the right...........
Here is a picture of Mikes F-4 on the left. I can't tell how he has his tanks in place but they look a bit different than mine on the right...........
Of course the simplest but most expensive option is a smaller turbine. ie. P-100 or the JC cheetah, merlin 140.
Mike
11-19-2011, 04:46 PM
#322
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
Looking at those pictures I posted comparing my tanks to Mikes got me thinking about why his tanks are positioned higher about the hatch ledge. Well the reason is that when you rotate the tanks outward and have that part sitting up it above the ledge, it also rotates the center line out and gives me just enough clearance for everything to fit. The front of the turbine cowl just barley rests on the tank...look at the mirror. I do not believe that the cowl gets hot however so I may be OK. What do you think?
Jim is doing some investigating to verify that the whole assembly is at the proper thrust angle but based on the bends on the pipe, the angle of the engine rails and how the turbine nozzle aligned perfectly with the bell mouth on the pipe, I guessing it is.
Jim is doing some investigating to verify that the whole assembly is at the proper thrust angle but based on the bends on the pipe, the angle of the engine rails and how the turbine nozzle aligned perfectly with the bell mouth on the pipe, I guessing it is.
11-19-2011, 04:53 PM
#323
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
I may be able to trim the hatch ledge back a bit more and get the whole tank to shift over. If I do I might be able to get some daylight between the tank and turbine cowl. At least I know it is going to work now without redoing the turbine/ pipe install or cutting the intakes
11-19-2011, 05:08 PM
#324
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Maj. Woody's X-Treme Jets F-4C Phantom
ORIGINAL: MaJ. Woody
I may be able to trim the hatch ledge back a bit more and get the whole tank to shift over. If I do I might be able to get some daylight between the tank and turbine cowl. At least I know it is going to work now without redoing the turbine/ pipe install or cutting the intakes
I may be able to trim the hatch ledge back a bit more and get the whole tank to shift over. If I do I might be able to get some daylight between the tank and turbine cowl. At least I know it is going to work now without redoing the turbine/ pipe install or cutting the intakes