VF84sluggo

My Feedback: (55)

Joe, that's what I'm leaning towards for PNS Jets. Set up the orange webbing stuff along the back edge of tent row, but to get through the opening/gate to the pits and the flightline you have to be authorized...pilots, assistants, staff, etc.

True, I do the most damage to my own stuff, but at least I'm pissed at me when it happens.

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

How many guys had jets damaged by spectators...i have. We have 7-10k invested in these things and when jr puts his foot on the wing it pisses me off. Spectators are good for the clubs.....but behind the fence. Even standing with your jet people let their kids run wild and are a hazard. Ive seen crashes into the pits several times ..we dont need the lianility. Keep spectators behind a safety fence!

dos007

My Feedback: (24)

I have had two jets damaged at jet events when the parent failed to monitor their children. I love kids, I have 5, but we need to keep spectators away from the jets. The time to fix the damage is more than the expense.

Warbird Joe

Wow!!!! I am shocked by all the delusions of grandeur. However, before those that feel they are above and beyond everyone I say stop and look at the whole picture.

First of all I totally understand and completely agree that there is a lot of time and money put into ALL jets. Not just the competition/scale jets. I agree I wouldn't want anyone stomping on or damaging my planes. But you guys are totally missing the whole picture on this. The starter of this thread is in disagreement with comments made on the JWM thread but I think that things have been looked at with a closed mind.

Let us take a second and look at has been totally blown out of proportion.

I made the comment on the thread at this link. I don't want to put the whole thing on here. [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9470237/anchors_10649119/mpage_18/key_/anchor/tm.htm#10649119]JWM post[/link]

Readers digest I didn't enjoy the event at all. I am a huge fan of this great hobby and because of one man 5 years ago I am in this hobby for life. I just stopped by the club and was watching the guys fly from the bleachers behind a fence and signs posted saying no spectators beyond this point. ( just so you get there is security ) Anyway the guy talks to me and asks if I want to go fly the plane. Of course I am thrilled and get up and I got to fly on a buddy box. Simply put, great PR for this hobby and now another hobbiest has been created. I have now been on the board of that club and run a great Warbird event.

Now to nip this in the bud before someone looses their mind and say I'm not buddy boxing my Jet. Well I sure hope not because that is just absolutely stupid.

I have gone to several events and run my event the same way because I have taken bits and pieces from the events that I have been to so that I would create an atmosphere that is best for the pilots, yet still accomodates to the spectators and possibly the next airplane addicted hobbiest.

Now that being said. The pits should not be completely accessable, nor have I insinuated that should be. I do believe that the pits should be open to the spectators to look at the planes from a safe distance. Getting the public within 10 feet is all they need. They are thrilled to be able to get a closer look at the planes. It also give them the opportunity to ask some questions. Yes they get redundant and some are just way the heck out there but you know what? It gives this hobby a better reputation.

If you guys haven't noticed the government is trying to control us more and more. You never know who you come across that knows someone from the big house that will say those guys are jerks screw them. Laugh if you want too. My family is very politically connected. My brother-in-law had an agreement with the military to get his student loan paid off if he joined. Five years after he got out it still wasn't paid. One call to the Speaker of the House who lives by us and guess what. The loan was paid off the very next day.

Point being, you could lose the field you are flying at, the runway at the airport your flying at or where ever you may be flying at because of the superior than though attitude.

This is a great hobby and we should share it but not risk our planes at the same time. My event has never had a single plane damaged. During the weekend of our event there is always a huge soccer tournament. People from all of the country are there and they are constantly stopping in and looking at the planes.

Without sounding mean in the best way possible, get over yourselves. Secure your property and protect your planes but at the same promote this great hobby.

To the guy who said I don't want to have a kid get burned when I am starting my jet. I say they shouldn't be in that area anyway. No one should be around the planes when starting, moving or what have you. That is the pilots time to ensure everything is working and your head is cleared to take the plane up.

Lopflyers. To answer your question. Yes I have. Just an hour before the race and so were about 5,000 other people.

These cars are worth millions and they are no where near as anal as the Almighty Jet people. The attitudes towards the common public and other pilots who are just common nitro/electric flyers is unbelievable. I truly want to fly a turbine and have been doing my research to do so but I tell you what, I truly don't think that I want to be associated with a group of people who feel they are better than everyone else. Again, I agree there is a lot of money in the planes but the over all attitude is delusional.

Anyway that is my stance and Lopflyers here are the pictures from the NASCAR race. All their equipment, tires and etc. It all right there to touch and look at and the cars are within 10 feet. And guess what? The cars and teams were all our there racing after 5,000+ spectators went through the pits all day and just an hour before the race.

Joe

TUMBLER

My Feedback: (13)

I don't think anyone said they were above and beyond anyone...you seem to have derived that conclusion on your own. However we do spend months and years buiding these planes and thousands of dollars and do not want them stepped on by someone who knows nothing about what we put into them. They will likely never see us again so do not care and will not pay for the repair and even if they did, they can't pay for the time it takes to make the repair. I am always happy to answer questions and talk to people. I enjoy it actually because I reember what it was like when I was new. However, I don't like putting my planes out there at the noon time lineup and have people walk in between them. Around them is fine, but unfortunately there are a lot of inconsiderate people that walk BETWEEN them and that is when the damage happens. Let's face it, theses things are delicate and break easily. I had a spectator step on my cordless air compressor and break that....$80 down the drain. I am glad it was that and not my plane though.

Brian

Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

The NASCAR example doesn't work. That sport relies financially on fan support and race cars aren't that delicate.

You've made your point, but it's beginning to sound like you're out to just busting "almighty jet people's" ball joints. And it's evident you have no clue what most jet pilot's attitudes are toward the public.

Chris

Warbird Joe

[quote]ORIGINAL: TUMBLER

Brian, I couldn't agree with you more. They shouldn't be allowed to walk between the planes or even within a distance that they could touch them because of how fragile they are. I do agree people are inconsiderate and unfortunately don't seem to have a lick of common sense. However, just the line up alone can easily be setup so that the planes are protected. Put them on the runway and run a rope about 5 - 10 feet away and have the CD and people running the event stand out there to keep people from going under the barrier.

In reply to your statement There is no deriving. It has became very obvious what the majority of the jet guys opinions and feelings are by their statements in here and the other JWM posts.

It's sad because I can probably go out on a limb and say the majority of this hobby didn't just wake up one day and say, Hey I am going to start building planes and fly them. In some form or fashion they have been introduced to it by a family member, friend or just by driving by a flying location.

No matter the situtation, a competition or fun fly, we need to do our best to accomodate the spectators and other modelers to support this amamzing and wonerful hobby.

I would also like to say I hope that I haven't offended you in form or fashion and don't want to lump you into the all jet guys category. I am just really starting to see the reality of the comments and opinions of jet guys from fellow modelers. I always give people the benefit of the doubt and let them prove themselves but I have to say my opinion has been swayed after this weekend.

Joe

Joe C

My Feedback: (23)

Not to mention these jets fly, and if someone kicks and breaks something and the pilot goes to fly, he can possibly crash his jet and hurt someone or God forbid kill someone.

TUMBLER

My Feedback: (13)

Yep. My buddy crashed a plane and then his son told him that someone had been over their house when he was not there and knocked it over and never told my friend. He took the plane out the next time and had a structural failure. If someone doesn't get what we are saying here, it boggles my mind as to how they couldn't.

Warbird Joe

Chris,

The NASCAR point was in response to Lopflyer. Not your comments.

In relation to busting your ball joints, maybe a little because of the attitude that has been displayed. I will be more than happy to hear what your attitude is towards the public, because as of right now I have clearly read and understand the posts to say the public are morons and inconsiderate. Please correct me. I have no issues with being proven wrong. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong on my view at this point.

I feel that you have totally misunderstood my view. I believe that we should accomodate to the public and fellow modelers. I in no way shape or form think they should be allowed to roam around like unwatched cattle and break and steal stuff.

I want this hobby to gain as much support as it can gain. One day, and very soon, a club is going to need the public to help keep their field or provide a field for them. You read about it all the time how clubs are losing their fields. Whose to say what the exact reason is but I can assure you that without public support it will be a whole lot harder keep or gain one.

Our field is donated by the city and we have had nothing but great support from the city. I know this personally and have heard it right from the City Park Manager's mouth that they support our club completely because we support the public.

That reason alone is a great reason why events should find a wait to accomodate the public/spectators. You just don't know when you will need them.

The same thing keeps getting repeated over and over again by the jet guys that people don't understand the time and effort that goes into these jets. I agree. Because they aren't given the opportunity to find out.

Joe

TUMBLER

My Feedback: (13)

You do realize there is a reason why people don't want spectators near their jets right? It is not as if spectators were never given the chance. Over the years they have always been able to go into the pitts and walk around the planes. I feel like they did not appreciate and respect this opportunity and so it should be taken away. Just my opinion. As with many things, the actions of a few, have ruined it for the many.


[quote]ORIGINAL: Warbird Joe

Warbird Joe

[quote]ORIGINAL: TUMBLER

You do realize there is a reason why people don't want spectators near their jets right? It is not as if spectators were never given the chance. Over the years they have always been able to go into the pitts and walk around the planes. I feel like they did not appreciate and respect this opportunity and so it should be taken away. Just my opinion. As with many things, the actions of a few, have ruined it for the many.


Brian, I can totally understand that. Please do understand that I feel for the guys that have been a victim of said morons. I just think there can be things done to prevent that from happening besides putting them in the back 40.

Joe

Tampaflyer

My Feedback: (42)

so , how about a solution?..but no one will do it.

i always thought, you do it like the UK and have the flying models off limits.

BUT, have tents set up from the vendors or clubs that would show the general public the turbine starting and running. smaller jets(habu) etc.. that people can handle at a tent... one that is for that.

if you had interactive and display areas then the public wouldn't be left out. and people "displaying" their planes and product understand what they are in for.

people that want a picture of johnny and the "toy" airplane would be just impressed if he is holding a habu32...they won't evrn know if its flight ready.

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Hey...where is AMTdude? I figured he'd be all over this thread too!

Beave

Warbird Joe

Tamapaflyer, I agree no one will find a solution. They just want to shut them out. I think that is a descent idea and keep the other planes viewable but not touchable.

Joe

Gordito Volador

My Feedback: (1)

A couple of years ago a guy wanders into my pit, then leans on my tailgate and then proceeds to trip over my Boomerang that was on the ground being fueled. He busted the horizontal stab and the booms. Then the butt head walks away and says nothing. At another event a lady came up and asked if her kid could play with one of the planes because he was getting bored, and she was serious. Tell me I have an attitude about people that can't keep themselves or their spoiled brats away from my planes, Jets or Prop jobs, and you will be right. This is not an elitist jet jock thing, it is about protecting a sizeable investment. I agree with David, my dogs know how to behave around RC models better than most people.

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Gordito Volador!!!! Que paso mi grand amigo?????

I remember when your Boomer qot squished. Lake Wales if I recall? That sucked.

Hope to see you at Markham!

Beave

Gordito Volador

My Feedback: (1)

Beave,

Yeah that was at Lake Wales, the last event we had there. I miss the place. Yes, I'm going to come to Markham Park, can't wait.

Saludos, Gordito

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

Let Jethro Jr. walk across the hood of Kyle Bush's car and see how friendly the NASCAR crews are. It's not about no spectators it's about keeping them where they belong....away from our models!

hooker53

My Feedback: (106)

Stan, you are right about that one. I was narrating a show in Abingdon, Va. a few years or so ago, And was constantly having to make announcments for folks to put their cigarettes away. I mean, they would lean right up on the wing of a Vintage Warbird and fire one up. My number one saying is, "Folks when it comes to smoking on the ramp, If ya look down and see black. Puttem back. I mean I had an intire family bring their seats and unfold them and get in the shade under a wing a fire them up. It's a constant trying to keep folks hands off them warbirds and planes out there.

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

I hear what everyone is saying, and I agree with what your saying, about keeping Spectators away from the planes, but the spectators are not the problem, complaining about them here on RCU is useless, you need to complain to Event organizers, you should insist that spectator access be controlled, you came to fly, not police the pits, and you voice your concerns as a group at the pilot's meeting. The host club should control the access points to the pits and your planes, and are obligated to do so, not only to protect your planes but from a liability standpoint.

You are not going to change spectators, most will always think of these as toys, continue to ask the same questions over and over, and if the organizers can successfully control the spectators and ultimately protect our planes, then for our part, the pilots, would it hurt to do a runway static display while you are close at hand, go over to the spectator fence and answer questions, maybe volunteer some time at an information tent, etc. ya ya, I know what your going to say 'I came to Fly, not do PR', one thing you can't deny is that these host clubs and event organizers rely on the spectators to spend some money to make their events and clubs successful, no club is going to host an event if they can't make some coin, so in short, spectators are not going to go away, host clubs and event organizers need to take a more active role in controlling spectator access, it's that simple.

Warbird Joe

Well stated Dasintex. Nothing else to add on this comment.

Joe

cwharper

So as an AMA member who has and flys a trailer load of planes but is a spectator of jets, at which jet events will I be welcome?

When I go to an event as a spectator here is what I expect:
- able to view the models up close from 10 feet away and ask questions
- able to see clearly the starting area
- able to see clearly the flightline and the pilot flying his model
- able to see clearly the runway being used as the takeoff and landing is as interesting to me as the flight
- information detailing the events of the day and the lineup of pilots flying and the model they are flying, this can come in the form of paper, electronic means, or PA announced

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

If you don't believe the general public is full of morons and inconsiderate people, you must be living under a rock now-a-days. You can go to pretty much any public place and count at least 5 in the first minutes. Hell, look at all the people who can't/won't park correctly or stay out of the left lane when doing under the speed-limit.
For those who don't understand why many of us jet guys are adamant about not having spectators near our models, have probably never had a model damaged by one of the spectators. I had a 1/3rd scale extra 300 that had a 12 year old kit SIT on it during a very large and very well known event on the east coast the first year they started letting people from the general pubic attend. That airplane was basically a complete right off.

Just b/c someone doesn't put their models out for the noon-time line-up doesn't mean they aren't for or trying to promote the hobby. Protecting their investment (which the public has no clue about) is what they are doing.
Would you take your brand new porsch, corvette, BMW,etc and put it in the worst place in town with the windows down and the keys in the ignition and expect it to be there when you got back? I think not.

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Keep em out!!! I have been to many shows where the crowd is allowed to get very close or in to the pit area. Lots of sticky fingers and individuals not paying attention. Noon time line ups and half time shows are a waste of time as well. Nobody I know goes to a jet event to watch an annoying pine swinging paint stirring noise maker imac bird waste 30 min of their prime flying time. It is also guaranteed that someone will observe the little kid exercising someones rudder,flap, elevator or pitot tube. No bueno!! The worst I ever witnessed was that of an individual that had just lost his BVM F100..... He had the carcass on a table well within Roscoe sticky fingers reach!!!! The owner walked away to use the restroom and when he returned his already crash damaged TITAN SE had been lifted from the table.

Keep em out

2 cents