DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

I am reading another thread about the pitfalls of SM quality control. I am planning on buying their Mig-29. I have a 3D helicopter background and fly aggressively. My only interest in jets is to 3D them. I have a rookie II with vectored thrust, and would like a bigger model. The red/white/blue Mig-29 with OVT from SM is gorgeous! I am completely fine with sending the wings to an experienced builder and paying him to go over them and put reinforcements where necessary. ( I am not the one to do this ) Would this be important? I'm gonna be rough on this plane.

Thanks

FILE IFR

Off topic a bit, but just a word of advice to you for the type of flying you want to do. There was a guy in our area flying at an event (Plum Island Jet Rally) recently, who flew his ShockJet so violently, it raised concerns amoung the pilots and event officials. This guy ended up crashing it on Saturday, breaking the entire nose off, gear and all.... he fixed it overnight and flew it the next day.

Sunday's flights of the ShockJet consisted of high speed passes.... inverted, upright and knife-edge, followed by a full elevator stick up or down to the stops at full power. The wings of his jet just couldn't take any more abuse and ultimately failed... yes, right at the spar.

There were 2 things this 'dangerous' pilot didn't know,

1) He was just about to be spoken to about his flying from the CD in charge... complaints began from a few pilots and a couple of spectators, then escalated as the morning went on.

2) If the jet survived the weekend, the pilot was also going to be approached by another CD/ pilot about his flying for the other CD's next area event, of course that didn't need to happen as the plane and engine was completely demolished.


I don't know exactly what type of flying you'd like to do, but if it is at an event with spectators, tone it down if you want to be like the ShockJet pilot... All CDs are taking flight safety VERY seriously, given the FAA is at our front door.

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

Please note that jets can BURN when they crash; total losses due to fire are not rare.

Please note also that a burning jet can take out acres of whatever terrain it crashed into!

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

LOL, I meant I wasn't going to fly circuits all day, not endanger the public! geez... I want to take precautions so the wings don't come off in a turn.

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Do the jet community a favor and start with an entry level jet to become familiar with the differences from what you are used to. 3D will come with time.

Andrew Bird

There is no reason that a guy can't fly with vectored thrust, 3d and more conventional aerobatics without common sense and safety. Whilst it's not a bad thing to highlight the risks, it's not fair just to be rude is it?

rcjets12

My Feedback: (21)

I thinks that comment is uncalled for. We have plenty of guys out there flying there jets 3D thats why they have thrust vectoring it does not mean that they are not safe becuase they are hovering there airplane or doing other manuvers. More dangerous is the guys who think they are topgun going 199.99999 a foot of the deck.

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

Lovely comment, you have no idea about me or my ability as a pilot. I've been involved with r/c since I was ten, Futaba team pilot, been invited to compete at the XFC twice. I am not some hack who is going to go out and do something stupid. I'm old enough to have bypassed the reckless stage. There are people who enjoy building, I enjoy flying. I am intrigued by the aerobatics a vectored thrust jet can achieve, and look forward to learning 3D with a jet. What I do not look forward to, is spending $10K and having the wings fall off because of a missed glue joint. The poor construction might be suitable for flying circuits and a few rough landings, not sure about tumbles and spins.

I didn't post this to get opinions on whether or not I should be involved in the Jet hobby. My point was to ask if the SM jets, particularly the Mig-29, should be inspected and reinforced due to the QC issues I have been reading about.

Couch Potato

You don't have to fly aggressively to achieve 3D
A good 3D jet is lightly built.
Have you considered the C-ARF 3D Eurosport with thrust vectoring ?

http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...duct&proId=938

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTXGID9ZNg[/youtube]

rcjets12

My Feedback: (21)

I would definately inspect anything you buy and look at the threads and see what you find. The main problem that I have seen form some of these manufacturers is that they dont really sand and clean the areas and that where the glue joint fails.

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

Built the eurosport without vectored thrust a few years ago, really want the mig! Great Vid! that is exactly the kind of flying I want to do. Just want to make sure that the grossly underpaid worker in china had his lunch that day and didn't forget to glue the wing skins on.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

BVM carries skymaster, so they must be perfect.

Square nozzle, you should go to the nall and other large jet events and compain your opinion in person when they are 3Ding jets at those events.

FILE IFR

It appears I've sent this thread in a different direction... unintentionally.

Let's get back on track....

3D is not 'agressive' in an airplane (hanging on a prop or hovering over thrust), so I think you won't have a problem with wing strength... given that fact, I was reponding to your key words of flying rough and agressively.

.... carry on fellas [8D]

Couch Potato

Like this one ?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4INOc4aXyA[/youtube]

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

I've watched that video at least ten times! The draw in helicopters is the challenge of learning the different flight directions and tricks. I think learning to hover a jet without gyros would be a similar exercise.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

If you have to ask yourself if you need to inspect them, then you probably have already figured out in your own mind that you DO need to inspect them. Their is just no way to know for certain and for piece of mind if your happy with the construction.

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

I think you just answered your own question................

DrScoles

My Feedback: (18)

Thomas and Wayne, thanks for being succinct... :-) I will track someone down once I get the kit. I would feel much better being certain that the wings are solid.

THERCAV8R

My Feedback: (283)

HI,
Your experience should tell you that if you are going to anything out of the ordanary you should re enforce the areas of concern. not only the wings but also the stab. ect...

3DHELINUT

My Feedback: (3)

What a nice friendly statement! maybe you should stick to flying a Cub and leave to skies to us who can fly both Helicopters and Jets......

At best you have proven the point of how ignorant you are.

Alan

DanMN

How many jet jockeys are also accomplished heli pilots? 2 different disciplines altogether. I give accomplished heli pilots all the cudos. They have amazing and eye coordination. It makes flying planks seem pretty easy.

rrragmanliam

My Feedback: (1)

Typical arrogant jet puke. Hey jet community why are there so many of you guys' with this “F” the newbie attitude?

Darren

Jetkopter

My Feedback: (1)

Alan, square Nozzle wants to know if he can borrow your cub for some 3D. Also would like info on your landing gear ejection hatches on the top of your bandit wings.

FenderBean

Understands []

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

Dr Scoles,

Since you are "gonna be rough on this plane", I would certainly agree you're doing the right thing and questioning the strength of the wings (regardless of the manufacturer).

Unfortunately, even having an experienced builder examine the wings may not be enough. The wings are sealed up on many ARFs and while you can make some cutouts in the root chord and examine the inside with a bore scope, due to internal structure you may only have a partial view of the interior of the wing. Additionally, much of the strength of glue joints comes from proper preparation of the surfaces to be bonded and you'll likely never know if the prep work was done. If your builder finds an issue deep in the wing, you then have the problem of how to fix it and that might not be possible due to lack of access.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of an instance where someone had a wing fail at mid-span. There have been cases where the wings "clapped" either due to failure of the main spar or of the fuselage formers supporting plug-in spars. Wing alignment tabs have broken, leading edges have opened up, control surfaces have fluttered leading to a variety of failures, H-stabs have come off, etc. If you're going to be tough on the plane, then you really should look at everything not just the wings.

I see that you live in the northwest and I suppose your flying season will be over in the approx 12 weeks that it takes to receive a jet (unless it's in stock). Assuming that you have the time, you might want to get in a dialogue with the manufacturer, Skymaster, as Anton and John frequent this forum, not to mention BVM reps. They should be able to furnish photos of a model in production showing the wings, stab, fins, stab during layup where one skin and the internal structure is shown (but before the unit is sealed up by the addition of the other skin). Additionally, at least one manufacturer offers a "heavy duty" version of several of their planes in which additional layers of carbon fibre are applied.

Thanks for your concerns about safety. Good luck,

Jim