Vettster

Hey guys.. Though after building my first ever kit(Avonds F-104) I said I would never build another kit again.. Well! Here I am again lol

I just bought an unbuilt F-16 and am going to make it Turbine. Would a P-60 be enough to fly this bird? I have one thats not in use. I believe the flying weight of this plane is around 15-20lbs.

I also have a Ram750 but I think that is a pretty heavy option.

Any hints or tips would be appreciated.

Trevor

EDIT: After recieving a lot of info on this model from the very helpful guys here on RCU... This plane will for sure be getting something near a 20lb turbine as the weight is expected to increase with all the mods.

I have ordered a K100G for this project

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

this plane normally flew off of a 12 lb thrust d/f engne. The major concern you will have with conversion is strengthening the wings and tail feathers. At least you will be able to get rid of the hole. After strengthenng and the weght gain, a P60 maybe a little light but would work

Vettster

12lbs!?!? lol.. Well if thats all it takes then the P-60 should be alright. Ive read a few short threads on turbine conversions but they were old threads and using turbines from about 10 years ago. Someone had mentioned that some had reinforced them heavily making the plane heavier and other did minor mods keeping it light, but they both flew fine. Ill be glassing the wings and stabs for sure, and adding an extra former near the front of the wing so an extra spare can be added. That with some CF in the wings leading edge and closing the Cheater hole to make gear doors out of. Dont know what the retacted gear situation is yet. We'll see as the build progresses, But I did read the gear mounts were not the strongest.

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

you should do a build threa, it would be interesting. Realize that the added weight of fuel can make all the difference. The glassng shouldnt add that much weight , ts the fuel that scares me. One high G turn will test the strength of your mods. Looking forward to it. The F-16 is a proven flyer and s inexpensive

Vettster

I will be doing a build thread Ram-bro. It just has to wait a short while as I finish off detailing my 104. Its winter here now, so plenty of time.

Thanks for the input

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

I have an old kit laying around and have thought of doing the same thing. The vertical fin and rudder are a weak spot and must be reinforced. I've seen a few rudders on DF versions flutter (servos were mounted in the nose with nyrod running to the rudder, though). Keep it light and just do the mods that are needed for safety.

I have been thinking a Wren 44gold mounted in the tail might work OK. I know some Byron kits have been flown with JetCentral SuperBees in the tail (similar in size to your P60) but can't remember if any F-16s have been setup this way. Very interested to see how yours works out!!

Vettster

Thanks for the heads up on the rudder. I will definantly not be using any nyrod

RAPPTOR

My Feedback: (41)

BYRON PIPMED OUT 16 LBS DYNAMAX

Vettster

Nicely Done Rapptor! Do the gear fold entirely into the fues.. or do the wheels stick out partially. Also did the fues area between the gear come with the kit or did you have to make that.

16lbs with what Im guessing to be a 12-14s setup is very light! A P-60 would fall into that range 'wet' I would think. Actually I did once compare the weight of the P-60 and all extras with one of my 8s setups once...and it wasnt very much more than the EDF set up. So the lighter P-60 is sounding pretty good at this point.

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

Was thinking I might go with fixed ailerons on the wing with just rudder and elevator servos. Just a thought

Vettster

I was planning on doing the same.. No need for ailerons on this plane. Saves weight.

aquaskiman

My Feedback: (46)

I would go with this Wren Jubille 18# thrust, light weight and priced right. Wrens are like the battery bunny they just keep going and going and going.
http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/usa/en...ren-75-jubilee

RAPPTOR

My Feedback: (41)

THANKS .. WHEELS GO IN ALL THE WAY.. CENTER OF FUSE IS REMOVEABLE TO ACCESS FAN AND BATTERYS. NONE OF THE FORMERS OR WOOD IS FROM THE KIT.. ALL TO HEAVY.. NOSE GEAR IS NOT MOUNTED IN THE INTAKE ANYMORE. CUT NEW WING CORES FOR SHEETING. 17 LBS INTALLED THRUST.. 3.75 OUTLET.6000 WATTS143 AMPS27800 RPM WITH NEW REPITCH ROTOR..5000 30 C BATTERYS sorry for caps...old habit ON YOU TUBE MOST F-16 WERE {20 LBS.. BILLYS} 16 WAS A PLESENT SURPRISE.. LETS ME AT MORE BATTERY IN I CAN AFFORD THEM !!

jescardin

My Feedback: (1)

Here in Spain it has been quite popular an Argentinian made F-16 that due to size and solutions I think it is closely based on Byron one.

Although the model is offered as tractor ducted fan (intended for RAMTEC) I only know of one such powered, while most have changed to center mounted P-60 turbine. Also most modelers here have mounted fixed gears as use the F-16 as a turbine trainer.

As regarding controls, I know most Spanish modelers use separate ailerons and tail elevators against tailerons but I think this is only due to tradition.

Here are links to TNT Models website and a maiden flight video from a modeler in south Spain:

http://www.tntmodels.com.ar/Modelos/jetsEscala.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqeUuy9Hsls

By the way, I also have ine TNT airframe and would closely follow this thread and if I personally do not add, for the moment, is due I am working in other projets at the moment.

Best Regards,

Jesus Cardin

f16man

The fuse on the byron is pretty light and will need some extra formers in the tail and engine mount area, also wings need some help for the bigger G s your going to put to her , I would reconsider loosing the ailerons as then roll rate will be reduced also control at landing will suffer good luck and I'll be checkin in on ya.

Vettster

Thanks for all the imput guys!!! Im learning more and more about this plane with every post.

From further research and help from people PM'ing me with advice.. Ive decided to use the ailerons. The wings will be strengthened with CF but will also be glued to the fuse for added strength. Two extra formers will be added to the rear section as I have heard that this is a week area and the entire tail area could rip off the plane if not reinforced.[X(]

Thanks Jescarding for the links and letting me know a good location for the P-60. It had crossed my mind. I like to get all the parts and then tape everthing together and place the components on top of the model as it sits on a balancer, to find a ruff estimate of where things can go LONG before I get into trouble. I always aim to get the fuel tanks close as possible to CG. Im sure most of us do

Looks like this build will be starting sooner than I expected as there seems to be a lot of interest in this kit. To be truthfull...Im getting excited about building it to lol

Trevor

Countryboy

My Feedback: (25)

Should make for an interesting thread. I might even follow along as I have a turbine conversion donor airframe sitting here.

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

with the turbin conversion, hopefully you can add the under fuse strakes and also get rid of the taildown squat by using a more scale landing gear setup

Vettster

Welcome to the game Countryboy

Rambro.. I hadnt notice how low the tail sits. This will for sure need to be addressed as I fly mainly off of sod fields. I cant burn the grass!! not even once. Been doing a good job of not burning it for the last 5 years.

What size are the wheels? I might have to go a little bigger for the grass. Sod is much thicker than your average grass runway, and bigger wheels will help. Not worried about scale gear. No one will notice at 150mph.

Just finishing up some work on the F-104 and then Im going to clear the bench for the F-16[8D]

You guys that have already built this plane.. Do you suggest that I throw away the Hard Ply that comes with the kit and use either thinner Hard ply or will soft ply the same thickness as the stock be ok?

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

^^

Vettster:
On the Byron F-16's and Mig 15 I have done, I used the old ply for templates and replaced all of the old ply with new stuff that was the thickness I thought was adequate for the intended function of the piece. As for the main wheels/tires, I believe that they are 3.5". You can put larger ones in or just shorten the nose unit so that you have about 1.5-2* positive angle of attack on the wing.

Watching the build,
Ed

Vettster

Thanks Ed. 3.5" wheels will be fine. I will most likely shorten the nose gear as you suggested.

I was hoping to get it on the bench tonight.. but the gear door sequencer on the widow maker is giving me a hard time.

Anyone use an Alewings Sequencer before? Its for electric doors and air gear. It worked before..but I must have changed something and now nothing is making sense. Its driving me nuts!

Vettster

I got around to having a better look at the model I bought from ebay.

Is this Seriously the canopy?? I looks like it came from a .46 size yak.[]

The privious builder had done a small amount of work to it already. Installed the main former and wing mounts. Attached the nose and sprayed a coat of white on it that will need to be sanded down. Not a very light fuse to start with.. just over 3lbs[X(]

I guessing this is not the canopy.. Anywhere I can get a replacement?

This plane is pretty big. Not much smaller than the 104. I having a hard time believing that a P-60 would push this around at more than 100mph if I can get it airborn on such thick grass. For sure a kingtech 80 would do it..but I was hoping not to have to buy another engine[]

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

Vettster:
You are right, that is NOT the F-16 canopy. You can get a replacement canopy and tub from :www.ironbaymodelcompany.com Send them an e-mail as they do not answer the phone for some reason. I have ordered a Byron fan and parts for my Mig and they have everything except the injection molded wings and the glass fuse. My stuff arrived in about 2 weeks. Go to their website, send them an e-mail and ask for pricing on what you want. Go to this website (http://www.houstonhobbies.com/jets/b...6/byronf16.htm) and download the F-16 manual. Page 21 contains the part numbers you will have to provide them with to get pricing. You can order just the canopy or the canopy plus the tub and instrument panel. If needed, you can also order the ply parts from them.

You are correct in that the plane is not small. I think if you cover the cheater hole in the bottom you will reduce a lot of the drag. The planes (Glow or EDF) are not very fast. I would guess that the F-16 I recently converted to EDF for a friend is not much more than about 100- 110 mph. However, I think that if you close the cheater hole and put gear doors on to clean things up it might fly a little faster.

Ed

Vettster

Thanks for the good news and the bad Ed. Glad to be able to replace the canopy.. but I just cant fly a turbine at anything less than 150mph. Looks like im buying another engine, or more likely the case...installing the Ram750. but thats one heavy engine. Going to have to think this one over[]

Vettster

Ed I cant open that manual.. Could you please help me out and tell me what the part # is. I just need the canopy and the frame if its part of it.

Thanks!