Ok, I am looking for some advice on a big Hawk, larger than 1/4.
Carf/skygate? Tomahawk?

I am looking for reliable gear, reasonable order to delivery time.

Also wondering if my 180rx will work or should I be thinking 200?

Thanks!

Before this gets going, I don't want to have this as a brand war, just polite information sharing would be great!
Thanks

I'm also interested in hearing more about this. The CARF Skygate seems to be easier to assemble and there is the added benefit of it being painted, although its in the mold.

I had hoped to have some info by now. I have read many of the threads on each Carf skygate and tomahawk.

Does anyone know if the catfskygate includes any changes to the fin?

Can I order either jet as A t45?

Can either jet be ordered painted as. Goshawk?

Which one is lighter?

Are both jets equipped with equally reliable landing gear?


Thanks
Dave

Dave

You are asking about a 1/4 scale Hawk?
I though Airworld were the only people doing actual 1/4 scale. Other than SM. The others are all bigger.
Any of the "Germanised" kits will have decent gear.

Regards

Dave W

Dave, I have just built and flown the first production model of the CARF Skygate Hawk. CARF have basically taken on a very scale model of the MK66 Hawk in Stefan Volkers JWM winning design, and made it into a true "ARF" version in CARF style. In short this means, very strong, very light and very good quality with a sensible amount of work left for the "builder" to do. This Hawk is painted in the mould and CARF are doing more on the seams now to blend them in but I still felt the need on my one to work out some of the seams on such a beautiful scale jet. This is not hard with the paints ordered from CARF and a million times easier than doing a full paint job. You can however order the jet in white and paint it yourself if you want. the detail in the mouldings is spectacular and CARF supply a full set of light lenses, antennae and other little resin pieces as part of the kit.

The undercarriage is German made and just superb, good spec aluminium and everything made to a high standard. For the main legs you get a set of fibreglass strut covers that you have to fashion over the struts - this is done to give the scale shape to the struts whilst saving massively on weight.

With regard to your question on the fin. CARF have a system of layup on their composites that is extremely strong when combined with the internal structures but a simple modification was made to this area in the CARF version of the kit in that the rudder control horns are much further out from the surface than the original Skygate design and instead of being one horn with ball link screwed to one side there is a dual horn with the ball link bolted in between. Additionally we have upsized the linkage to have an M3 ball link on the rudder end. Basically the linkage is much stronger, tighter and more positive with greater mechanical advantage on the rudder.

Although I have not built one I have looked closely at the Tomahawk Hawk - a little bigger than the Skygate. Another absolutely lovely kit but much more work to do to put it together. German made gear again in fact the gear for both models is made by the same company. I believe Tomahawk do offer the option of builds to certain stages but obviously that adds up on the $$$ front.

When you say the T45 version do you mean just the paint job as a T45 or the other scale parts unique to the T45 such as the speed brakes and twin nose wheel? Im sure the T45 scheme would be no problem for CARF as a special scheme but the other scale details you would have to work on yourself.

I don't think you could go wrong on either of these kits and if it came down to a choice between the two, I would imagine it depends on the finer points of your preferences.

Hope this helps

Colin

I own both jets. Both jets have their pros and cons. I believe both kits cost about the same but one is a prepainted ARF. The Tomahawk is bigger and you probably wouldnt notice unless they were side by side. but side be side its pretty obvious and seems rather substantial. Both are great flyers. Both are WJM champions. both will fly great on P180-P200. Comp Arf is a Arf and will have a seam. TH is a kit but fun to build. They weigh the same and the TH is bigger. struggling to think of anything else. Scott



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Thanks Scott!

I hope we cross paths some day. I appreciate the information. While I dont love the seems, time may be an issue and the CARF might be the best for me...thinking about it still though.

I am guessing that neither plane needs an annual inspection absed on weight?

My question about the fin was that I thought that I had read about a brroken fin a bit ago.

Anyone want to buy y Large SM Hawk?

Thanks again,
Dave

Hi Dave,
You wont be dissapointed with either jet. I guess for me bigger is always better. The build is fun and I really enjoyed it. Having one in the air quicker than another is very attractive too.
I think the fin was an isolated issue. the Skygate kits design on the rudder was to have it be super scale and have the horn super close to hinge line which gave it no leverage over flight surface. That was also when an 8411 was about the strongest servo you could buy. I speculated it was a flutter that caused the fin to flutter and break. I changed the horn on my Skygate and I think Comp Arf is bigger now as well. I have alot of flights on both and have had no issues.
Both of mine had to have the certification. they both weighed 53 lbs dry and carried 9lbs of fuel.
They were both designed to be able to compete in WJM which is 44 dry. add 9 lbs in fuel and your at 53lbs which is under 55 wet but those that competed at 44lbs didnt have powerboxes, or any fancy equipment and had everything stripped out to save weight. I built mine with no weight savings in mind and over did some stuff. I also added a hatch and did some reinforcing in areas. totally a preference and not necessary.
My guess is a Comp Arf with a P180 will weigh 48-50lbs dry plus 8-9 lbs of fuel. So get ready to get inspected.
Why the change of heart on the SM?
I also owned one, but I will tell you that you will like the Comp Arf or TH much better!
Good Luck!
Scott

Guys. Note CARF now paint the seam (usually top only) outside the mould on most aeroplanes...


Dw

Hi Dave:

One of our local guys(not Dave E.) had a Skygate Hawk built and shipped from the factory when they first came out. He is still flying it. I have tried to buy it but not for sale. His favorite jet and he has had many.

He uses a European JetCat 160 that came with it. Adequate power from most maneuvers, so your 180X should be perfect. Comes off asphalt in about 200 ft and with the right setup on final, he can get it down and stopped in about the same distance. Awesome presentation in the air and lands just like a Boomer XL....totally benign in the flare to touchdown with no bad Kangaroo hopping tendencies if you are on-speed.

If you decide on one, I could get you some photos of his factory install if you wish.

Tom

Thanks everyone.
Tom- would love to see any pictures!
I am on the fence of getting the white and adding the red for the goshawk or ordering painted, which could take a few months.
Dave- that bit about hopeful painting of a few seams would sway me to order it painted, I think... Thanks
Now I just need a buyer for my Sm hawk!

Dave

there are more differences between the hawk and the Goshawk. if you are going to contest, the stabs and other features are different between the two, aside from what is mentioned above. I had a kokufan that outlined all the differences if you are interested. not to sidetrack thread, if you know this already.