Another Fine Day With FEJ
04-21-2013 | 08:20 PM
#1
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From: Sale, AUSTRALIA
Another Fine Day With FEJ
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%;">Great weekend at our big 3 day Wangaratta Jet Meeting with maiden flights of our Fly Eagle 1:7 F15's each powered by 2 x Jetcat P140 RX and running full Robbe/Futaba S Bus systems.</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Both 15's performed great with only small trims changes needed, CG's are set at around 220mm but could go back to 240mm. We will now change the tank pull so that the front tanks empty before the saddle tanks (currently other way around) which should allow the high alpha landing setup to be achieved a bit earlier</span> to wash off the energy.<o
></o></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Planes are incredibly robust and tough, fit & finish were great. My mate Rob picked up a well deserved best scale award for the better build.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Also had great flights with my twin P140 RX powered FEJ 1:7 F4 Phantom that I have had for a couple of years now, it is a real solid flyer and lands so sweet!<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Now I know the banshee’s out there will be screaming at their computer screens but we are not all prophets of doom and stand on the street corners yelling the ‘End is Nigh’, some of us really enjoy our Fly Eagle Jets products. Like anything else, build em well and they will fly well.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I have a good collection including Jetlegend, Skymaster, Comp ARF, Fei Bao and of course FEJ, the only ones that ever came out of the box Perfect were the Comp ARF. I have had my share of issues with the manufacturers and most of the time these issues were resolved but at all stages during assembly if I thought something was under designed I put the effort into resolving it.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Please feel free to inset the insults below.<o></o></span></p>
></o></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Planes are incredibly robust and tough, fit & finish were great. My mate Rob picked up a well deserved best scale award for the better build.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Also had great flights with my twin P140 RX powered FEJ 1:7 F4 Phantom that I have had for a couple of years now, it is a real solid flyer and lands so sweet!<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Now I know the banshee’s out there will be screaming at their computer screens but we are not all prophets of doom and stand on the street corners yelling the ‘End is Nigh’, some of us really enjoy our Fly Eagle Jets products. Like anything else, build em well and they will fly well.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I have a good collection including Jetlegend, Skymaster, Comp ARF, Fei Bao and of course FEJ, the only ones that ever came out of the box Perfect were the Comp ARF. I have had my share of issues with the manufacturers and most of the time these issues were resolved but at all stages during assembly if I thought something was under designed I put the effort into resolving it.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Please feel free to inset the insults below.<o></o></span></p>
04-21-2013 | 08:34 PM
#2
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Bart, I am truly happy that you are having success with your planes. I hope you have years of enjoyment with your planes. Now how about some video of those bad boys flying?
04-21-2013 | 08:48 PM
#4
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Man thats a BIG change to the 190 C.G. Guess I will go with the 220 as well. I already hooked mine up to burn the front tanks first. Glad you finally got it done, mines pretty much to the finally setup point and totally love the SBus equipment. Makes servo installs a very simple and quick, it was well worth the cost and wait.
Where is the video???
Where is the video???
04-21-2013 | 08:52 PM
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From: SaleVic, AUSTRALIA
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Hey mate congratulations! Looks fantastic! The SADAC tent is over flowing with Jets! I am going to try and make an effort to attend next year. Are we going to see the 15 at the club this weekend?
Greg
The SADAC tent is over flowing with Jets! I am going to try and make an effort to attend next year. Are we going to see the 15 at the club this weekend?Greg
04-21-2013 | 09:06 PM
#7
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
yes 
if these are what you are asking about
Shane, what is your degree of flaps for landing if you dont mind me ask.
if these are what you are asking aboutShane, what is your degree of flaps for landing if you dont mind me ask.
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
Hi,
What's up with the devices at the top of the verticals? Is that scale?
Hi,
What's up with the devices at the top of the verticals? Is that scale?
04-21-2013 | 09:28 PM
#8
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Fender,
I think I asked this a while back, but it seems the FS ones don't sit with the length of the device seemingly situated on the center of the fin tip. Is that just a goof, or is there an F-15 with that much of those devices hanging off the TE of the fin?
I think I asked this a while back, but it seems the FS ones don't sit with the length of the device seemingly situated on the center of the fin tip. Is that just a goof, or is there an F-15 with that much of those devices hanging off the TE of the fin?
04-21-2013 | 09:45 PM
#9
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Ahh i see what your saying yeah im not sure but from the pictures it appears longer.
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
Fender,
I think I asked this a while back, but it seems the FS ones don't sit with the length of the device seemingly situated on the center of the fin tip. Is that just a goof, or is there an F-15 with that much of those devices hanging off the TE of the fin?
Fender,
I think I asked this a while back, but it seems the FS ones don't sit with the length of the device seemingly situated on the center of the fin tip. Is that just a goof, or is there an F-15 with that much of those devices hanging off the TE of the fin?
04-22-2013 | 12:54 AM
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From: PlaistowWest Sussex, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Congratulations on your F15 maiden Bart. I'm still enjoying my 1/7th FB F15 twin. Also expecting delivery of FEJ F14 any day now.
John
John
04-22-2013 | 01:09 AM
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From: Sale, AUSTRALIA
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Dubd
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I know your pain and some of your frustration. I too had the FEJ F14 although 1:8.75 scale fitted with 2 x P80's. It flew like a treat but every time I flew it I expected the wings to clap due to all the bad press on this forum however its final demise was my fault!</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">One day I was on a high speed pass low pass and could see the Stb fin banging side to side about 4 inches from 200 mts away, backed off the noise and dropped the gear and swung onto downwind to set up for landing. We could all still see the fin banging side to side when all of a sudden it departed the fuse when opposite us. The plane just kept flying as though there were no problems so I went through the normal landing procedure onto base and then onto final but I had let it get too slow and the inside wing stalled and she rolled in, total fuse loss but I had time to kill the donks so no fire.</span>
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">First thoughts were bad flutter issues similar to B1 Bob and straight away started getting dark about FEJ, however some of the boys at the club had gone off and collected the fin while me and a few others were collecting the remains and what I found when the fin came back was a sombre reminder not to cut corners.<o></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">When I built it I decided to change the rudder control by fitting JR DS 168 thin wing servo's into each fin to get a more direct drive onto the rudder which I still believe is a better idea but I got slack and used the plastic servo arm that it came with. Well you guessed it, the servo arm was broken but the servo gears were just fine so the most likely cause of the failure was the arm snapped and the rudder just became an uncontrollable swinging mass.</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.<o></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The other things I found on post crash examination were that the wing structure and wing box assembly were actually very strong and were not likely to fail. The amount of force caused by the oscillations was so big that the carbon rods in the fin had actually snapped with the remainder still in the intact clamps in the fuse. The first time I left plastic horns in a jet cost me a bucket of cash.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I also have a gen 1 1:6.5 FEJ A10 which was one of the very first out of the factory and I had issues with the wings. I had a lot of trouble with the factory trying to get them to review the design and was not the only one but eventually we sorted out the problems.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">As I said earlier, I have experienced a wide selection of the mainstream manufacturers and keep coming back to FEJ simply because I like the big scale military stuff. I have just ordered the 1:4.6 F16 and like I always do, will go over it and modify area’s I personally feel are not right!<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">History is littered with these same stories but with different brand names, even BVM and the big Germans had serious issues and unhappy customers in the day, the only difference was there were no forums back then. These guys don’t have problems these days but they also don’t bring out any new planes. <o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I am truly sorry for your loss</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I know your pain and some of your frustration. I too had the FEJ F14 although 1:8.75 scale fitted with 2 x P80's. It flew like a treat but every time I flew it I expected the wings to clap due to all the bad press on this forum however its final demise was my fault!</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">One day I was on a high speed pass low pass and could see the Stb fin banging side to side about 4 inches from 200 mts away, backed off the noise and dropped the gear and swung onto downwind to set up for landing. We could all still see the fin banging side to side when all of a sudden it departed the fuse when opposite us. The plane just kept flying as though there were no problems so I went through the normal landing procedure onto base and then onto final but I had let it get too slow and the inside wing stalled and she rolled in, total fuse loss but I had time to kill the donks so no fire.</span>
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">First thoughts were bad flutter issues similar to B1 Bob and straight away started getting dark about FEJ, however some of the boys at the club had gone off and collected the fin while me and a few others were collecting the remains and what I found when the fin came back was a sombre reminder not to cut corners.<o
></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">When I built it I decided to change the rudder control by fitting JR DS 168 thin wing servo's into each fin to get a more direct drive onto the rudder which I still believe is a better idea but I got slack and used the plastic servo arm that it came with. Well you guessed it, the servo arm was broken but the servo gears were just fine so the most likely cause of the failure was the arm snapped and the rudder just became an uncontrollable swinging mass.</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.<o
></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The other things I found on post crash examination were that the wing structure and wing box assembly were actually very strong and were not likely to fail. The amount of force caused by the oscillations was so big that the carbon rods in the fin had actually snapped with the remainder still in the intact clamps in the fuse. The first time I left plastic horns in a jet cost me a bucket of cash.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I also have a gen 1 1:6.5 FEJ A10 which was one of the very first out of the factory and I had issues with the wings. I had a lot of trouble with the factory trying to get them to review the design and was not the only one but eventually we sorted out the problems.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">As I said earlier, I have experienced a wide selection of the mainstream manufacturers and keep coming back to FEJ simply because I like the big scale military stuff. I have just ordered the 1:4.6 F16 and like I always do, will go over it and modify area’s I personally feel are not right!<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">History is littered with these same stories but with different brand names, even BVM and the big Germans had serious issues and unhappy customers in the day, the only difference was there were no forums back then. These guys don’t have problems these days but they also don’t bring out any new planes. <o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I am truly sorry for your loss</span></p>
04-22-2013 | 01:18 AM
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From: Sale, AUSTRALIA
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Fender
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Yeah CG is an issue. We had set the elevator and wing incidence to 0/0 but found both planes on a good climb so needed down trim, almost like tail heavy but no other indications as the elevator control was absolutely brilliant. Needed much less elevator pull in the turns compared to my Mig 29 but airframe was not pitchy.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">My only concerns were that we did not seem to get the alpha up on the landing. The 240 mm CG is right on the front spar which is where I would have expected to see it and it is the same as Mario.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Sorry no video as we having too much fun, sick of trying to watch planes through a view finder, but will try and get some at the next meeting in South Australia in 4 weeks.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">As for the radar pod and balance pod on the fin, sure they are not true scale but make great push handles!!!!!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Yeah CG is an issue. We had set the elevator and wing incidence to 0/0 but found both planes on a good climb so needed down trim, almost like tail heavy but no other indications as the elevator control was absolutely brilliant. Needed much less elevator pull in the turns compared to my Mig 29 but airframe was not pitchy.<o
></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">My only concerns were that we did not seem to get the alpha up on the landing. The 240 mm CG is right on the front spar which is where I would have expected to see it and it is the same as Mario.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Sorry no video as we having too much fun, sick of trying to watch planes through a view finder, but will try and get some at the next meeting in South Australia in 4 weeks.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">As for the radar pod and balance pod on the fin, sure they are not true scale but make great push handles!!!!!</span></p>
04-22-2013 | 01:23 AM
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From: Sale, AUSTRALIA
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Damo
Yep looking forward to Temora and catching up with you, I flew my A10 there last year although had a nose gear stick up and did a wheels up on the grass, it was so easy.
Thanks very much John, been a while sice we chatted. I'm still banging that poor old JL Mig around maybe should give it a birthday and new scheme. There is a dude over here named Levi who does the most wicked Mig 29 paint schemes! just makes all the other seem dull.
Yep looking forward to Temora and catching up with you, I flew my A10 there last year although had a nose gear stick up and did a wheels up on the grass, it was so easy.
Thanks very much John, been a while sice we chatted. I'm still banging that poor old JL Mig around maybe should give it a birthday and new scheme. There is a dude over here named Levi who does the most wicked Mig 29 paint schemes! just makes all the other seem dull.
04-22-2013 | 01:32 AM
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From: Sale, AUSTRALIA
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Greg
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I reckon Franko would be the only one to get it down on our strip at present, Bert and I still need a bit more practice on the black top strips.</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The Sale Mafia could certainly do with a few more participants; we only had 15 jets between the 4 of us!!!!<o></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">You should have seen the F4, man it was absolutely awesome, got too busy just staring at the plan form on the cross wind turn, sort of gave me a little chubby.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The Cougar was a performer that is such a nice unit. At one stage we had 2 Mig 15’s and the Cougar running around at the same time, great fun.</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I reckon Franko would be the only one to get it down on our strip at present, Bert and I still need a bit more practice on the black top strips.</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The Sale Mafia could certainly do with a few more participants; we only had 15 jets between the 4 of us!!!!<o
></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">You should have seen the F4, man it was absolutely awesome, got too busy just staring at the plan form on the cross wind turn, sort of gave me a little chubby.<o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The Cougar was a performer that is such a nice unit. At one stage we had 2 Mig 15’s and the Cougar running around at the same time, great fun.</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p>
ORIGINAL: nt flyer
Hey mate congratulations! Looks fantastic!The SADAC tent is over flowing with Jets! I am going to try and make an effort to attend next year. Are we going to see the 15 at the club this weekend?
Greg
Hey mate congratulations! Looks fantastic!
The SADAC tent is over flowing with Jets! I am going to try and make an effort to attend next year. Are we going to see the 15 at the club this weekend?Greg
04-22-2013 | 02:47 AM
#16
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Hey Shane
You sure have got that fleet dialled in sweet. Ur big F4 especially is a great thing.
And thanks for all ur advice on the hydraulic and Robbe stuff mate. Was a great weekend.
You sure have got that fleet dialled in sweet. Ur big F4 especially is a great thing.
And thanks for all ur advice on the hydraulic and Robbe stuff mate. Was a great weekend.
04-22-2013 | 08:55 AM
#19
My Feedback: (4)
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
ORIGINAL: Aussie Bart
Dubd
<p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I know your pain and some of your frustration. I too had the FEJ F14 although 1:8.75 scale fitted with 2 x P80's. It flew like a treat but every time I flew it I expected the wings to clap due to all the bad press on this forum however its final demise was my fault!</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>One day I was on a high speed pass low pass and could see the Stb fin banging side to side about 4 inches from 200 mts away, backed off the noise and dropped the gear and swung onto downwind to set up for landing. We could all still see the fin banging side to side when all of a sudden it departed the fuse when opposite us. The plane just kept flying as though there were no problems so I went through the normal landing procedure onto base and then onto final but I had let it get too slow and the inside wing stalled and she rolled in, total fuse loss but I had time to kill the donks so no fire.</span>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>First thoughts were bad flutter issues similar to B1 Bob and straight away started getting dark about FEJ, however some of the boys at the club had gone off and collected the fin while me and a few others were collecting the remains and what I found when the fin came back was a sombre reminder not to cut corners.<o></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>When I built it I decided to change the rudder control by fitting JR DS 168 thin wing servo's into each fin to get a more direct drive onto the rudder which I still believe is a better idea but I got slack and used the plastic servo arm that it came with. Well you guessed it, the servo arm was broken but the servo gears were just fine so the most likely cause of the failure was the arm snapped and the rudder just became an uncontrollable swinging mass.</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.<o></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>The other things I found on post crash examination were that the wing structure and wing box assembly were actually very strong and were not likely to fail. The amount of force caused by the oscillations was so big that the carbon rods in the fin had actually snapped with the remainder still in the intact clamps in the fuse. The first time I left plastic horns in a jet cost me a bucket of cash.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I also have a gen 1 1:6.5 FEJ A10 which was one of the very first out of the factory and I had issues with the wings. I had a lot of trouble with the factory trying to get them to review the design and was not the only one but eventually we sorted out the problems.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>As I said earlier, I have experienced a wide selection of the mainstream manufacturers and keep coming back to FEJ simply because I like the big scale military stuff. I have just ordered the 1:4.6 F16 and like I always do, will go over it and modify area’s I personally feel are not right!<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>History is littered with these same stories but with different brand names, even BVM and the big Germans had serious issues and unhappy customers in the day, the only difference was there were no forums back then. These guys don’t have problems these days but they also don’t bring out any new planes. <o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I am truly sorry for your loss</span></p>
Dubd
<p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I know your pain and some of your frustration. I too had the FEJ F14 although 1:8.75 scale fitted with 2 x P80's. It flew like a treat but every time I flew it I expected the wings to clap due to all the bad press on this forum however its final demise was my fault!</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>One day I was on a high speed pass low pass and could see the Stb fin banging side to side about 4 inches from 200 mts away, backed off the noise and dropped the gear and swung onto downwind to set up for landing. We could all still see the fin banging side to side when all of a sudden it departed the fuse when opposite us. The plane just kept flying as though there were no problems so I went through the normal landing procedure onto base and then onto final but I had let it get too slow and the inside wing stalled and she rolled in, total fuse loss but I had time to kill the donks so no fire.</span>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>First thoughts were bad flutter issues similar to B1 Bob and straight away started getting dark about FEJ, however some of the boys at the club had gone off and collected the fin while me and a few others were collecting the remains and what I found when the fin came back was a sombre reminder not to cut corners.<o
></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>When I built it I decided to change the rudder control by fitting JR DS 168 thin wing servo's into each fin to get a more direct drive onto the rudder which I still believe is a better idea but I got slack and used the plastic servo arm that it came with. Well you guessed it, the servo arm was broken but the servo gears were just fine so the most likely cause of the failure was the arm snapped and the rudder just became an uncontrollable swinging mass.</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''><span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.<o
></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>The other things I found on post crash examination were that the wing structure and wing box assembly were actually very strong and were not likely to fail. The amount of force caused by the oscillations was so big that the carbon rods in the fin had actually snapped with the remainder still in the intact clamps in the fuse. The first time I left plastic horns in a jet cost me a bucket of cash.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I also have a gen 1 1:6.5 FEJ A10 which was one of the very first out of the factory and I had issues with the wings. I had a lot of trouble with the factory trying to get them to review the design and was not the only one but eventually we sorted out the problems.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>As I said earlier, I have experienced a wide selection of the mainstream manufacturers and keep coming back to FEJ simply because I like the big scale military stuff. I have just ordered the 1:4.6 F16 and like I always do, will go over it and modify area’s I personally feel are not right!<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>History is littered with these same stories but with different brand names, even BVM and the big Germans had serious issues and unhappy customers in the day, the only difference was there were no forums back then. These guys don’t have problems these days but they also don’t bring out any new planes. <o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I am truly sorry for your loss</span></p>
Bart, not sure I follow. Why was that your fault? you are saying that the rudders will oscillate violently even at 30mph.
Plastic horns are OK. I have no metal horns on any of my planes, including the F100 and Rafale, which are super high performance (speeds similar or higher than sport jets)
I think there is a design issue. a surface should not be kept steady by pure brute force from the servo.
For example, on the BVM sabre, if you don't balance the rudder (like the full scale) it will flutter. So you either do it scale with the mass where is supposed to be (and BV gives you instructions on how to do so). Or you make the rudder smaller (leave the top 3rd fixed). Up to you how to solve it.
We encountered the same situation on the rafale, and also modified (instructed by BVM) the rudder (fixed the top 25%)
So, not sure you should blame yourself for this one.
Just a thought
Jack
04-22-2013 | 09:13 AM
#21
My Feedback: (55)
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
Based on the info given to me by Dr. Niewoehner, and posted on Dubd's thread, it seems like a rudder "violently" fluttering at 30 mph has not been properly engineered. Dr. Niewoehner stated that flutter will happen, but proper engineering places the flutter speed at least 15% above Vne. 30 mph doesn't sound like 15% above Vne to me. Heck, 30 mph sounds like 15% below rotation speed...if that.
My bet would be the arm broke fighting to keep the rudder from "violently" fluttering.
In any case, glad you are having good results with your FEJ jets, Bart.
Sluggo
My bet would be the arm broke fighting to keep the rudder from "violently" fluttering.
In any case, glad you are having good results with your FEJ jets, Bart.
Sluggo
ORIGINAL: Aussie Bart
Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.
Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.
04-22-2013 | 09:40 AM
#22
My Feedback: (48)
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
I have used plastic arms on full flying stabs. Back in the day we didn't have metal arms.
I had an AD F16 with full flying stabs. It was perfect with 8411 and plastic arms. No flutter. I even used a big arm and last hole!
My 2 BVM F100 used plastic arms and 8411. Linkage on last hole no flutter either.
Designed correctly it works fine.
Scott
I had an AD F16 with full flying stabs. It was perfect with 8411 and plastic arms. No flutter. I even used a big arm and last hole!
My 2 BVM F100 used plastic arms and 8411. Linkage on last hole no flutter either.
Designed correctly it works fine.
Scott
04-22-2013 | 09:47 AM
#23
My Feedback: (37)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
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0 Posts
From: elizabeth, NJ
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
ORIGINAL: Wap4life
Mario your install is awesome! Wow i am going to save the photos, so i can copyyour install when my f-15 comes in.
Mario your install is awesome! Wow i am going to save the photos, so i can copy
your install when my f-15 comes in.This is my baby at the wram show 2013 and she get the overall category achievement award
04-22-2013 | 09:55 AM
#24
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
I'd like to see some video of these F-15 flying. I've seen tons of pictures and videos of these planes on the ground, taxing, or flying straight and level for a few seconds. Let's see some real video of this plane actually flying like the full scale bird.
04-22-2013 | 10:08 AM
#25
RE: Another Fine Day With FEJ
ORIGINAL: Aussie Bart
Dubd
<p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I know your pain and some of your frustration. I too had the FEJ F14 although 1:8.75 scale fitted with 2 x P80's. It flew like a treat but every time I flew it I expected the wings to clap due to all the bad press on this forum however its final demise was my fault!</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>One day I was on a high speed pass low pass and could see the Stb fin banging side to side about 4 inches from 200 mts away, backed off the noise and dropped the gear and swung onto downwind to set up for landing. We could all still see the fin banging side to side when all of a sudden it departed the fuse when opposite us. The plane just kept flying as though there were no problems so I went through the normal landing procedure onto base and then onto final but I had let it get too slow and the inside wing stalled and she rolled in, total fuse loss but I had time to kill the donks so no fire.</span>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>First thoughts were bad flutter issues similar to B1 Bob and straight away started getting dark about FEJ, however some of the boys at the club had gone off and collected the fin while me and a few others were collecting the remains and what I found when the fin came back was a sombre reminder not to cut corners.<o></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>When I built it I decided to change the rudder control by fitting JR DS 168 thin wing servo's into each fin to get a more direct drive onto the rudder which I still believe is a better idea but I got slack and used the plastic servo arm that it came with. Well you guessed it, the servo arm was broken but the servo gears were just fine so the most likely cause of the failure was the arm snapped and the rudder just became an uncontrollable swinging mass.</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.<o></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>The other things I found on post crash examination were that the wing structure and wing box assembly were actually very strong and were not likely to fail. The amount of force caused by the oscillations was so big that the carbon rods in the fin had actually snapped with the remainder still in the intact clamps in the fuse. The first time I left plastic horns in a jet cost me a bucket of cash.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I also have a gen 1 1:6.5 FEJ A10 which was one of the very first out of the factory and I had issues with the wings. I had a lot of trouble with the factory trying to get them to review the design and was not the only one but eventually we sorted out the problems.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>As I said earlier, I have experienced a wide selection of the mainstream manufacturers and keep coming back to FEJ simply because I like the big scale military stuff. I have just ordered the 1:4.6 F16 and like I always do, will go over it and modify area’s I personally feel are not right!<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>History is littered with these same stories but with different brand names, even BVM and the big Germans had serious issues and unhappy customers in the day, the only difference was there were no forums back then. These guys don’t have problems these days but they also don’t bring out any new planes. <o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I am truly sorry for your loss</span></p>
Dubd
<p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I know your pain and some of your frustration. I too had the FEJ F14 although 1:8.75 scale fitted with 2 x P80's. It flew like a treat but every time I flew it I expected the wings to clap due to all the bad press on this forum however its final demise was my fault!</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>One day I was on a high speed pass low pass and could see the Stb fin banging side to side about 4 inches from 200 mts away, backed off the noise and dropped the gear and swung onto downwind to set up for landing. We could all still see the fin banging side to side when all of a sudden it departed the fuse when opposite us. The plane just kept flying as though there were no problems so I went through the normal landing procedure onto base and then onto final but I had let it get too slow and the inside wing stalled and she rolled in, total fuse loss but I had time to kill the donks so no fire.</span>
<span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>First thoughts were bad flutter issues similar to B1 Bob and straight away started getting dark about FEJ, however some of the boys at the club had gone off and collected the fin while me and a few others were collecting the remains and what I found when the fin came back was a sombre reminder not to cut corners.<o
></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>When I built it I decided to change the rudder control by fitting JR DS 168 thin wing servo's into each fin to get a more direct drive onto the rudder which I still believe is a better idea but I got slack and used the plastic servo arm that it came with. Well you guessed it, the servo arm was broken but the servo gears were just fine so the most likely cause of the failure was the arm snapped and the rudder just became an uncontrollable swinging mass.</span><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;''><span style=''background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>Next day I went for a drive and held the fin outside the window into the airstream to see if the rudder would oscillate, even at a low speed of 30 kph, it became so violent that I struggled to hold onto it.<o
></o></span></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>The other things I found on post crash examination were that the wing structure and wing box assembly were actually very strong and were not likely to fail. The amount of force caused by the oscillations was so big that the carbon rods in the fin had actually snapped with the remainder still in the intact clamps in the fuse. The first time I left plastic horns in a jet cost me a bucket of cash.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I also have a gen 1 1:6.5 FEJ A10 which was one of the very first out of the factory and I had issues with the wings. I had a lot of trouble with the factory trying to get them to review the design and was not the only one but eventually we sorted out the problems.<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>As I said earlier, I have experienced a wide selection of the mainstream manufacturers and keep coming back to FEJ simply because I like the big scale military stuff. I have just ordered the 1:4.6 F16 and like I always do, will go over it and modify area’s I personally feel are not right!<o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>History is littered with these same stories but with different brand names, even BVM and the big Germans had serious issues and unhappy customers in the day, the only difference was there were no forums back then. These guys don’t have problems these days but they also don’t bring out any new planes. <o></o></span></p><p class=''MsoNormal''><span style=''font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;''>I am truly sorry for your loss</span></p>
Bart,
I think the position that the issues some of these Chinese ARF manufacturers are going through are the same 'growing pains' that manufacturers like BVM experienced is really a perfect example of a 'red herring.' For one thing, I've seen some airplanes (and I'm not singling out FEJ because it wasn't just them) where it was crystal clear that the people that made it never endeavored to try to assemble one themselves. BVM has never, ever done that. This new phenomenon of airplanes being sold that haven't been vetted by someone who knows about the science of physics and flight is new. The new 'norm' of having the end-user be the engineer, designer and test-pilot is new, too. If BV had an Ultra Bandit blow up in flight, that doesn't then mean that we can say, "Hey look, they ALL have this problem." Even a tested, well-engineered ship can fail for any number of reasons. The difference is that it's far less likely to fail.
Many of these ARFs are 'designed' on the TLAR principle (That Looks About Right) but get away with it for a while because it mostly works. When the clock runs out and either shoddy manufacture, poor QC or clueless design/engineering catch up to it...what happens then? Is a directive issued? Is a recall initiated? Is there an addendum or even a notice? That's the difference.
Based on what I've personally worked on for customers, some of these ARF's are nothing more than ticking time-bombs. The 'well mine flies great' defense is just silly as we all know that a broken clock is right twice a day. Also, why does it seem like the 'well mine flies great' people turn out to have at least one other bird from the same manufacturer that didn't fly so great? Again, this isn't leveled at FEJ alone. Frankly, to me, there is little difference between all these factories and their product.
These guys should have to put a disclaimer on the product that reads: "WARNING: This object has not been designed by anyone with demonstrable training or education in aeronautical or structural engineering. FURTHER: Neither this object, nor the materials it is composed of, have been exhaustively tested to root out design flaws and nothing has likely been subjected to any real quality control recognizable by accepted standards. FINALLY: The manufacturer neither expresses nor implies that any part or component of this object should be expected to do anything in particular at all. Fly at your own risk."
Now, that may sound sarcastic but if you think about it, it's honest. I've worked on or assembled jets from 4 different makes who I think need to stencil that on their box. You simply cannot say that about BV, JMP, JHH or Y/A's product (from a quality standpoint or a customer service standpoint).
If your rudder fluttered violently at 30 kts, you have a reason (and a moral/ethical responsibility if you ask me) to be suspicious and concerned about every other 'design' question on your airplane from the wheels on up.
What I don't get is why FEJ won't just STEP UP! Clearly, there's no shortage of modelers with actual training and education on this stuff. Why aren't they hiring a few of these guys to vet their models and then test them? Why not pay a real modeler to go over there and consult? The price of a round-trip ticket is around $1k. Add some room/board and ground transportation and an honorarium or stipend? Maybe it would cost them a bit up front, but with as pretty as their planes are and with as many new models they come out with every half hour, wouldn't it be cost-effective in the end if the US market could trust their product?? I don't get it...
