I FLIES!!!!!
10-01-2003 | 10:53 PM
#26
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From: Bakersfield,
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
I didn't really notice it so much before, but the plane really mushes through the corners. It really seems like it wants to lose a bunch of altitude if the turn is half slow and I'm not cranking back on the elevator. I paid really close attention today when it was on final. I was holding more than half back on the elevator as it neared the grond and full up when it touched down. The plane still flew fairly level and still came in faster than it should have. Any slower and I felt like it may start to fall, but it didn't have that nose high about to drag the rear of the wings attitude the one I saw fly at Fresno did. It really seems like the nose wants to drop out in the middle of turns. My elevons are almost 1/4" up and it seems like the thrust nossle is a little up too.
My conclusion is that it must be too nose heavy. As slow as I could go today on final and still keep the nose up was still too fast and the plane bounced.
If anyone agrees or disagrees with this let me know. I put the CG here because of a thread I read that Tam wrote. I knew he build many of them.
Rookie in... (in reply to Vincent) Contact Moderator | (Post No. 5)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vin,
Put everyting together. Move your finger about 1.5" foward from the main landing gear. I have my balance like that. Have the elevon 1/8" up from inside of the wing.
Brg,
Tam
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3/7/2003 9:48:24 PM
My conclusion is that it must be too nose heavy. As slow as I could go today on final and still keep the nose up was still too fast and the plane bounced.
If anyone agrees or disagrees with this let me know. I put the CG here because of a thread I read that Tam wrote. I knew he build many of them.
Rookie in... (in reply to Vincent) Contact Moderator | (Post No. 5)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vin,
Put everyting together. Move your finger about 1.5" foward from the main landing gear. I have my balance like that. Have the elevon 1/8" up from inside of the wing.
Brg,
Tam
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3/7/2003 9:48:24 PM
10-02-2003 | 04:17 PM
#27
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
I found a way to measure the C/G without taking the wings off to measure from the wing tube. You can see the wing tube through the intakes looking down on top of the plane. Looking down at the top of the plane I took a flexable ruler and measured the required 3 1/2 to 4 inches forward of the wing tube and marked this area. Next, I used a piece of fine-line striping tape and put a piece all the way across the C/G area from the area I marked and extended out the the leading edge of the wing. I then picked up the plane at the leading edge where the tape is with the fuel tank empty but the UAT full. I moved the battery packs around until I got the C/G within the range. This way you don't have to reach under the plane to try to get the correct balance. Mine did not tuck in the turns like the HotSpots that I've flown. It just grooved right on around as if on rails. Hope this helps...
Kevin
I found a way to measure the C/G without taking the wings off to measure from the wing tube. You can see the wing tube through the intakes looking down on top of the plane. Looking down at the top of the plane I took a flexable ruler and measured the required 3 1/2 to 4 inches forward of the wing tube and marked this area. Next, I used a piece of fine-line striping tape and put a piece all the way across the C/G area from the area I marked and extended out the the leading edge of the wing. I then picked up the plane at the leading edge where the tape is with the fuel tank empty but the UAT full. I moved the battery packs around until I got the C/G within the range. This way you don't have to reach under the plane to try to get the correct balance. Mine did not tuck in the turns like the HotSpots that I've flown. It just grooved right on around as if on rails. Hope this helps...
Kevin
10-02-2003 | 05:24 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Thnaks Kevin, You know how hard it is to pick the plane up from the bottom. It is very aukward, I will give that a try!
I am running two 3300 battery packs and they are both right behind the front gear former. Last night it took me moving one of the batteries all the way to the back in the turbine compartment to get the CG close. I didn't spend much time on it with intentions of doing it right today. Thanks for the advice, it will definately come in handy! The CG needs to move 1 1/4" back. I got to thinking about that, on a plane that isn't very long that is a whole bunch!
I am running two 3300 battery packs and they are both right behind the front gear former. Last night it took me moving one of the batteries all the way to the back in the turbine compartment to get the CG close. I didn't spend much time on it with intentions of doing it right today. Thanks for the advice, it will definately come in handy! The CG needs to move 1 1/4" back. I got to thinking about that, on a plane that isn't very long that is a whole bunch!
10-02-2003 | 05:48 PM
#29
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
I was surprised how nose heavy this plane turned out to be. I'm using Sanyo KR-1400-AE extended capacity cells for both my RX and turbine ECU. These are small AA size cells. My turbine does not need as much juice as yours due to mine being air start. I can safely get six flights from this pack. The RX uses the same cells. The only servos getting a real workout are the two on the elevons. If I had more digital servos I would use a larger pack with bigger cells if I stick with NiCads. In the future I'm going to go with Powerflight's Lithium Ion packs. 3600 mAh in the approximate size of AA cells!!!
My RX battery is located above the nose gear retract unit. I made and glued a plate there for it. My turbine battery is on the fuselage floor just forward of the speed brake servo.
Kevin
I was surprised how nose heavy this plane turned out to be. I'm using Sanyo KR-1400-AE extended capacity cells for both my RX and turbine ECU. These are small AA size cells. My turbine does not need as much juice as yours due to mine being air start. I can safely get six flights from this pack. The RX uses the same cells. The only servos getting a real workout are the two on the elevons. If I had more digital servos I would use a larger pack with bigger cells if I stick with NiCads. In the future I'm going to go with Powerflight's Lithium Ion packs. 3600 mAh in the approximate size of AA cells!!!
My RX battery is located above the nose gear retract unit. I made and glued a plate there for it. My turbine battery is on the fuselage floor just forward of the speed brake servo.
Kevin
10-02-2003 | 06:05 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
I'm sure that your batteries are a lot lighter than mine. I am using full cell 3300 racing packs that are custom matched. I wasn't worried so much about the extra weight because of the 120, I was worried about losing the plane to lack of juice.
The CG is way back on the plane, so it must take that much movement to make a change.
When you flew your plane did you slow it down and do slow shallow turns? Did it look like it lost altitude if you didn't give a lot of up elevator? On final during the last few feet when you flared, what angle do you think the plane was at?
The CG is way back on the plane, so it must take that much movement to make a change.
When you flew your plane did you slow it down and do slow shallow turns? Did it look like it lost altitude if you didn't give a lot of up elevator? On final during the last few feet when you flared, what angle do you think the plane was at?
10-02-2003 | 07:48 PM
#31
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
I didn't get very slow with it in the turns except turning base to final. I didn't notice it falling off but then again I was trying to loose altitude to land. I will tell you this...When flying my buddies' BobCat, if you get it too slow it WILL NOT TURN using ailerons and elevator only!!! It is scary---just add gobs of power. The next time I'm at the field I'll experiment some with the Rookie. I'm off to Superman tomorrow!!
When I was on final the plane had only a five degree or so nose high attitude. The model was sinking. Recognizing and adjusting the sink rate is a trial an error kind of thing. Too fast of a sink rate and you pancake the model into the runway, ripping out the gear. Without me there to show you how I land it is tough to describe the proper amount of sink. Anyway, with the model sinking at a comfortable rate and my flying speed OK....When the model is about ten to eight feet from the ground I gently pull back on the elevator and watch the rate of sink slow as the nose gently comes up. Around three feet off of the deck I got model about 20 degrees nose high and held it there. When the model was one foot from the ground I added just a TOUCH more elevator (about 25 dgrees nose high) and I let the model settle in by itself. The mains touched and I watched the nose. As the nose started to fall I gradually added more up elevator to keep the nose about 25 degrees high with the mains on the ground. The model rode the mains for at least another 150'. I put the nose down as the model was getting down the runway. No telling how far I could have rode the mains!!!
If your C/G is too far forward it is harder to arrest the sink, harder to flare, harder or impossible to ride the mains. The model will also try to tuck its' nose (nose will drop) in the turns.
Keep at it---You'll get it!!!
Kevin
I didn't get very slow with it in the turns except turning base to final. I didn't notice it falling off but then again I was trying to loose altitude to land. I will tell you this...When flying my buddies' BobCat, if you get it too slow it WILL NOT TURN using ailerons and elevator only!!! It is scary---just add gobs of power. The next time I'm at the field I'll experiment some with the Rookie. I'm off to Superman tomorrow!!
When I was on final the plane had only a five degree or so nose high attitude. The model was sinking. Recognizing and adjusting the sink rate is a trial an error kind of thing. Too fast of a sink rate and you pancake the model into the runway, ripping out the gear. Without me there to show you how I land it is tough to describe the proper amount of sink. Anyway, with the model sinking at a comfortable rate and my flying speed OK....When the model is about ten to eight feet from the ground I gently pull back on the elevator and watch the rate of sink slow as the nose gently comes up. Around three feet off of the deck I got model about 20 degrees nose high and held it there. When the model was one foot from the ground I added just a TOUCH more elevator (about 25 dgrees nose high) and I let the model settle in by itself. The mains touched and I watched the nose. As the nose started to fall I gradually added more up elevator to keep the nose about 25 degrees high with the mains on the ground. The model rode the mains for at least another 150'. I put the nose down as the model was getting down the runway. No telling how far I could have rode the mains!!!
If your C/G is too far forward it is harder to arrest the sink, harder to flare, harder or impossible to ride the mains. The model will also try to tuck its' nose (nose will drop) in the turns.
Keep at it---You'll get it!!!
Kevin
10-02-2003 | 08:03 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
I am sooooo jealous that you get to go to superman! I checked on plane tickets and had every intention of going, but the work monster has a hold of me for the weekend! Hope you have a ton of fun, Let me know how it goes!
On final how much throttle did you have to use if any?
On final how much throttle did you have to use if any?
10-02-2003 | 08:08 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny congrats on a nice maiden flight! :-) I see however what some of your problems are? the monkeys helping you from Racers Haven! Frank is color blind, and Kent, well he's kent :-) good job from a prop flyer!
Todd
Todd
10-02-2003 | 08:17 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Wow!! I thought nobody understood my pain!!! It nice to know that someone is from my neck of the woods, and deals with the same color blind, and and and well you know Kent!
10-02-2003 | 08:20 PM
#35
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
I had the throttle at idle. Actually it was at idle from the last portion of the base turn to final. How much throttle you carry will be determined by the headwind, your altitude and the sink rate. To arrest a high sink rate you pour the coals to it. But then you have a model that may be too fast to land. This model isn't like others that I've flown. Some models you can land at 60 mph and they will stay stuck to the runway----Not this one!!! You HAVE to let this model loose ALL ability to fly when you touch down. Otherwise it will bounce. I thought that by raising the rear of the model up by adding longer struts would help solve some of the bouncing problem.....I don't think I accomplished my goal. I honestly believe that the main gear position is the entire problem. It is just too far forward. That position gives you the ability to rotate easily and ride the mains, but also doesn't let the model stick to the runway on a fast landing. I believe that the mains should probably be located another 1/2 to 3/4" aft.
Kevin
PS----I'll take plenty of pics at Superman and post them in the Superman thread!!!!
I had the throttle at idle. Actually it was at idle from the last portion of the base turn to final. How much throttle you carry will be determined by the headwind, your altitude and the sink rate. To arrest a high sink rate you pour the coals to it. But then you have a model that may be too fast to land. This model isn't like others that I've flown. Some models you can land at 60 mph and they will stay stuck to the runway----Not this one!!! You HAVE to let this model loose ALL ability to fly when you touch down. Otherwise it will bounce. I thought that by raising the rear of the model up by adding longer struts would help solve some of the bouncing problem.....I don't think I accomplished my goal. I honestly believe that the main gear position is the entire problem. It is just too far forward. That position gives you the ability to rotate easily and ride the mains, but also doesn't let the model stick to the runway on a fast landing. I believe that the mains should probably be located another 1/2 to 3/4" aft.
Kevin
PS----I'll take plenty of pics at Superman and post them in the Superman thread!!!!
10-02-2003 | 08:21 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
yes the same neck of the woods :-) I was the one if you remember that gave you a hard time when you bought Joel's plane from the shop last year when you where first starting :-) I "loiter" quite alot down there :-) now I am trying to help learn Frank to fly, and like I said, he's not good at seeing which way is up! lol
glad it went well, Frank told me about it on Monday.
yes the same neck of the woods :-) I was the one if you remember that gave you a hard time when you bought Joel's plane from the shop last year when you where first starting :-) I "loiter" quite alot down there :-) now I am trying to help learn Frank to fly, and like I said, he's not good at seeing which way is up! lol
glad it went well, Frank told me about it on Monday.
10-02-2003 | 08:37 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kevin,
I had it at idle but it really seemed to fall quickly and was still flying to fast. The problem has to be the CG which is now fixed (as of 5 min. ago). I will be out there again tomorrow hopefully with a different plane on my hands! Have a ton of fun and burn up that K-1!! (didn't try to rhyme...)
Todd,
You are a brave soul trying to teach Frank! How long is your trainer cord 1/4 mile?
I will be out this weekend if you are interested in taking a look. I figure if I show a bunch of people, some of them have to say, "I have to have one!" It's kind of hard living in a town of over 250,000 people and owning the only flying turbine or jet for that matter. (that I'm aware of) I would love to have people to fly with!
But if not I will have to wait for the rallies... or go to Jackson and fly with Kevin!
I had it at idle but it really seemed to fall quickly and was still flying to fast. The problem has to be the CG which is now fixed (as of 5 min. ago). I will be out there again tomorrow hopefully with a different plane on my hands! Have a ton of fun and burn up that K-1!! (didn't try to rhyme...)
Todd,
You are a brave soul trying to teach Frank! How long is your trainer cord 1/4 mile?
I will be out this weekend if you are interested in taking a look. I figure if I show a bunch of people, some of them have to say, "I have to have one!" It's kind of hard living in a town of over 250,000 people and owning the only flying turbine or jet for that matter. (that I'm aware of) I would love to have people to fly with!
But if not I will have to wait for the rallies... or go to Jackson and fly with Kevin!
10-02-2003 | 08:49 PM
#38
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
C'mon!!! How does a 6000' runway sound?!?! [8D] Where I fly they just added another 2000' to accomodate biz jets. I have a feeling that my small, quaint airport is gonna get too busy to fly from.
I do have a couple of nice grass model strips to fly from though...
Kevin
PS---My buddy told me that a Rookie went in today at Superman---He thinks that it may have been Matt's.....[&o] He did not see it go in or have any details......He just saw the remains.
C'mon!!! How does a 6000' runway sound?!?! [8D] Where I fly they just added another 2000' to accomodate biz jets. I have a feeling that my small, quaint airport is gonna get too busy to fly from.
I do have a couple of nice grass model strips to fly from though...Kevin
PS---My buddy told me that a Rookie went in today at Superman---He thinks that it may have been Matt's.....[&o] He did not see it go in or have any details......He just saw the remains.
10-02-2003 | 09:07 PM
#39
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
That is horrible!! I hope it wasn't Matt's, that was one of the originals! Let us know when you find out!
6000' sounds awesome! I also fly from my choice of 2 full size runways. They are both really nice with nothing standing for miles around. The problem is all of the guys that fly out here fly from a dirt (gravel) runway that isn't very long. I'm sure that I could get it in and out of there, but I spent too much money on this thing to be landing it on dirt. So I end up flying by myself which is OK, but flying with other jet guys would be awesome! Here is some pictures of one of the flying fields. The first is taken from the center of the runway looking towards ONE end. The other is from the same spot looking back towards the pits. Notice how packed it is!! Come on Bakersfield, we need more jet pilots!! There are people in Fresno that fly jets I hear... that's an hour or so away which I would drive!
If I get lonely I will be flying across the country, where everything around the runway is green!
6000' sounds awesome! I also fly from my choice of 2 full size runways. They are both really nice with nothing standing for miles around. The problem is all of the guys that fly out here fly from a dirt (gravel) runway that isn't very long. I'm sure that I could get it in and out of there, but I spent too much money on this thing to be landing it on dirt. So I end up flying by myself which is OK, but flying with other jet guys would be awesome! Here is some pictures of one of the flying fields. The first is taken from the center of the runway looking towards ONE end. The other is from the same spot looking back towards the pits. Notice how packed it is!! Come on Bakersfield, we need more jet pilots!! There are people in Fresno that fly jets I hear... that's an hour or so away which I would drive!
If I get lonely I will be flying across the country, where everything around the runway is green!
]
10-02-2003 | 09:19 PM
#41
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
Kenny,
WOW!!!! Nice and looooooooong!!! Doesn't Addison Clark live in Bakersfield????
Try to plan on coming to the Mississippi Afterburner Jet Rally next May. Memphis is only a couple of hours from the site.....My stomping grounds!!! I'll show you a good time on Beale St. No---Hell NO----We will not go to Elvis' house!!! I've lived in this area since 1975 and I still haven't been to Graceland. The big joke around here is that you have to get "high" before you visit Graceland......That way you can see it EXACTLY how Elvis did!!!!
My buddy is pretty sure it was Matt's Rookie that went in. I will find out what happened tomorrow. My buddy also says that attendance is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down from previous years. Only a little over 100 pilots this year. This is actually a good thing as Superman was getting toooooo big. Last year was something else!!!!
Kevin
WOW!!!! Nice and looooooooong!!! Doesn't Addison Clark live in Bakersfield????
Try to plan on coming to the Mississippi Afterburner Jet Rally next May. Memphis is only a couple of hours from the site.....My stomping grounds!!! I'll show you a good time on Beale St. No---Hell NO----We will not go to Elvis' house!!! I've lived in this area since 1975 and I still haven't been to Graceland. The big joke around here is that you have to get "high" before you visit Graceland......That way you can see it EXACTLY how Elvis did!!!!
My buddy is pretty sure it was Matt's Rookie that went in. I will find out what happened tomorrow. My buddy also says that attendance is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down from previous years. Only a little over 100 pilots this year. This is actually a good thing as Superman was getting toooooo big. Last year was something else!!!!
Kevin
10-02-2003 | 09:21 PM
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From: Ft Wayne, IN
RE: I FLIES!!!!!
ORIGINAL: Kevin Greene
PS---My buddy told me that a Rookie went in today at Superman---He thinks that it may have been Matt's.....[&o] He did not see it go in or have any details......He just saw the remains.
PS---My buddy told me that a Rookie went in today at Superman---He thinks that it may have been Matt's.....[&o] He did not see it go in or have any details......He just saw the remains.
10-02-2003 | 09:27 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
I would love to go! And no I'm not talking about to Elvis' house, the Rally. I don't think anybody could ever see it like Elvis did... how could anyone get that high?
Have a really good time at Superman! Tear up the sky and burn a tank for me! If it was Matt's give him my condolences!
If some thing happens to change with work, I will find the Beautiful blue rookie when I get there!
Have fun!!!
Have a really good time at Superman! Tear up the sky and burn a tank for me! If it was Matt's give him my condolences!
If some thing happens to change with work, I will find the Beautiful blue rookie when I get there!
Have fun!!!
10-03-2003 | 12:29 AM
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From: Tehachapi, CA
RE: I FLIES!!!!!
MAN Kenny, I it was sooo cool seeing your jet fly for the first time, even if it was past sunset and I lost sight of it two times.LOL
Burl - monkeys? Whatever! You sure like haging at the Zoo alot.
________________________________________________
Kent - AMA# OU812
visa - accepted everywhere
Trk - zagi 400
h&l - hotliner
Burl - monkeys? Whatever! You sure like haging at the Zoo alot.
________________________________________________
Kent - AMA# OU812
visa - accepted everywhere
Trk - zagi 400
h&l - hotliner
10-03-2003 | 04:47 PM
#45
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
I just knew that Kent wasn't going to just lay down and take that! Welcome aboard Kent!
Thank you for going out there and helping. Thanks for all of your help with this project and all of the jets before this. You guys at Racers Haven don't know much about jets but you go out of your way to help! (you guys are learning though)
I really hate to call it a zoo... I'm there too much also!!
Thank you for going out there and helping. Thanks for all of your help with this project and all of the jets before this. You guys at Racers Haven don't know much about jets but you go out of your way to help! (you guys are learning though
)I really hate to call it a zoo... I'm there too much also!!
10-04-2003 | 09:44 PM
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RE: I FLIES!!!!!
If you are by Magic Mountain it is about 45 - 50 minutes north on the 5. It is a great field, there is no G.A. traffic and very little RC traffic. No worries about frequency, direction of flight or much else. Just fly, fly, fly!
Let me know if you want more info. I also have more pictures.
Let me know if you want more info. I also have more pictures.
