Regulation ?
05-31-2022, 10:34 PM
#26
RC models crash, big or small they go in. Pilot error, electronic issues and loss of power the causes are endless. Let’s face it full scale aircraft crash as well, for the same reasons.
When turbines crash they do not always end in a fireball, that event was sanctioned and any turbine could have exploded when it went in for any reason. And it probably would have been on YouTube as well.
I was at TG in 2001, huge RC airliner crashed behind the flight lines with everyone running out of the way and a CAI had a unintentional wing fold mid-flight and landed on someone’s house from memory, sh#t happens. So it didn't just start last week yet all of a sudden an exploding jet is a major problem that will kill the hobby.
Most people are not even aware of XXXL models that have actually been flying for over 25+ yrs. Look up La Ferté-Alais, there have been massive models flying every year for a long time some using car engines??? And honestly there were some daddy crashes over the years.
So who is actually sensationalising the issue, the public and 99% of the modelers who see a ball of flame and think it is awesome or a or a RC guy that decided to have a whine? The issues do not start with some guy from the FAA or the like, it starts within the actual RC community. As one person always knows better or is jealous or just trying to stay relevant. Clubs no matter what ( Bowling, Shooting, Flying, Car, RC whatever) always get taken out from the inside by some delusional imbecile on a power trip.
The only 1/2.4 scale model out there is the MB 339 from Airworld, and let’s face it we all know they know absolutely nothing about big models, not??? Add to that three serious guys were involved in all aspects of the airframe for the last 5 + years, and it would have been ringed out. On the other side 90% of the models flying now come from China and have a 6 week design cycle and yet you need to worry about the big ones?
There is a reason most of those who are making/flying really big stuff don't go on the forums. Those who make big stuff know the regs, build to them, get them certified if needed and get outside insurance. Enough said.
Making massive RC models will not create issues with ANY governing body, that is a fact.
Now for XXXL models look at the statistics, for every 1/3 or 1/2 scale model there are 1,000's of 1/6~1/10 and so on, and they go in left right and center. Now taking a 1/3 or large scale model to the field is a huge endeavor, the physical size and weight normally make it a 3+ person job and a trailer and the list goes on, starting price is 60k easy which cuts out 99% of the punters. Not something you’re going to do every weekend. There are huge jet models and there are also huge gas powered models, they both will make a decent impact. Yet so few XXXL go in, wonder why?
The biggest issue with XXXL is those guys that make them out of wood, they do look impressive with all that balsa yet at the end of the day the loads won't cut it with wood.
Finally RC jet models had issues way before Drones hit the market, again a few within the RC community with nothing to do started calling them missiles. That was like around 2005 or so and those at the FAA started to take notice.
Drones, other than commercially operated ,should be banned simply because they are and have been shown to be an active threat against full scale aircraft.
RC models have never had this issue.
Regards,
When turbines crash they do not always end in a fireball, that event was sanctioned and any turbine could have exploded when it went in for any reason. And it probably would have been on YouTube as well.
I was at TG in 2001, huge RC airliner crashed behind the flight lines with everyone running out of the way and a CAI had a unintentional wing fold mid-flight and landed on someone’s house from memory, sh#t happens. So it didn't just start last week yet all of a sudden an exploding jet is a major problem that will kill the hobby.
Most people are not even aware of XXXL models that have actually been flying for over 25+ yrs. Look up La Ferté-Alais, there have been massive models flying every year for a long time some using car engines??? And honestly there were some daddy crashes over the years.
So who is actually sensationalising the issue, the public and 99% of the modelers who see a ball of flame and think it is awesome or a or a RC guy that decided to have a whine? The issues do not start with some guy from the FAA or the like, it starts within the actual RC community. As one person always knows better or is jealous or just trying to stay relevant. Clubs no matter what ( Bowling, Shooting, Flying, Car, RC whatever) always get taken out from the inside by some delusional imbecile on a power trip.
The only 1/2.4 scale model out there is the MB 339 from Airworld, and let’s face it we all know they know absolutely nothing about big models, not??? Add to that three serious guys were involved in all aspects of the airframe for the last 5 + years, and it would have been ringed out. On the other side 90% of the models flying now come from China and have a 6 week design cycle and yet you need to worry about the big ones?
There is a reason most of those who are making/flying really big stuff don't go on the forums. Those who make big stuff know the regs, build to them, get them certified if needed and get outside insurance. Enough said.
Making massive RC models will not create issues with ANY governing body, that is a fact.
Now for XXXL models look at the statistics, for every 1/3 or 1/2 scale model there are 1,000's of 1/6~1/10 and so on, and they go in left right and center. Now taking a 1/3 or large scale model to the field is a huge endeavor, the physical size and weight normally make it a 3+ person job and a trailer and the list goes on, starting price is 60k easy which cuts out 99% of the punters. Not something you’re going to do every weekend. There are huge jet models and there are also huge gas powered models, they both will make a decent impact. Yet so few XXXL go in, wonder why?
The biggest issue with XXXL is those guys that make them out of wood, they do look impressive with all that balsa yet at the end of the day the loads won't cut it with wood.
Finally RC jet models had issues way before Drones hit the market, again a few within the RC community with nothing to do started calling them missiles. That was like around 2005 or so and those at the FAA started to take notice.
Drones, other than commercially operated ,should be banned simply because they are and have been shown to be an active threat against full scale aircraft.
RC models have never had this issue.
Regards,
The following users liked this post:
cetigershark (06-02-2022)
06-02-2022, 09:18 AM
#27
You obviously do not get reality. In military aviation we had to do dangerous things, nature of the job, we had to get them done with the highest degree of safety. We had a VERY high degree of safety training and understanding., You have obviously no knowledge or understanding of that.
I learned the real meaning of flight safety at an early stage in my carer. In 1963 my instructor and I ejected from a jet at 14,700 feet. When my chute opened at 10,000 feet it was damaged, I fell 10,000 feet in a damaged chute, expecting it to candle at any moment. Not a fun time.
Although we ejected in a remote area, the jet eventually crashed in an isolated farmyard, spraying a ton of jet fuel where kids had been playing a few minutes before. Mercifully, there was no fire and no one on the ground was hurt.
In my 12 years in the RAF I lost 9 colleagues, 4 one morning, including my navigator, killed flying with another pilot in a Canberra whilst I was on leave. Please dont tell me military flying experience has no relevance in flight safety, some of which, particularly a safety culture, can be transferred across to the operation of high performance model jets.
I learned the real meaning of flight safety at an early stage in my carer. In 1963 my instructor and I ejected from a jet at 14,700 feet. When my chute opened at 10,000 feet it was damaged, I fell 10,000 feet in a damaged chute, expecting it to candle at any moment. Not a fun time.
Although we ejected in a remote area, the jet eventually crashed in an isolated farmyard, spraying a ton of jet fuel where kids had been playing a few minutes before. Mercifully, there was no fire and no one on the ground was hurt.
In my 12 years in the RAF I lost 9 colleagues, 4 one morning, including my navigator, killed flying with another pilot in a Canberra whilst I was on leave. Please dont tell me military flying experience has no relevance in flight safety, some of which, particularly a safety culture, can be transferred across to the operation of high performance model jets.
Geez. You profess to have some special grasp on reality or the ability to judge others’ grasp of same? Seriously? Get OVER yourself dude.
I myself have been an aviator for 45 years and counting, and professional aviator for 42 years and counting. There’s nothing special in that other than having had the honor and privilege during that time to have worked with aviators from a VERY wide variety of of aviation backgrounds. Some of those pilots taught me a lot while others tried to get me killed, and I know first hand that their backgrounds were very poor predictors as to which of those two categories they would belong to. So you can fool yourself and perhaps some naively impressionable others -but not me- into believing this mythical nonsense about a supposedly special military understanding of safety, as if the military has some front row seat to either skill or safety that the rest of the world does not.
So rather than preaching to us, perhaps you should consider expressing your opinions with some humility and respect for others who’s backgrounds differ from your own.
06-03-2022, 04:51 AM
#28
I am not a full-size pilot myself. However, being a RC modeller for 30 years I also do question the increasing size of some RC models. Flying giant models safely basically means flying them in an isolated airport with full size aviation permitting. Models always give way to full size aviation, so you may have to wait.
It also means multiple amount of investment and fuel costs. Also a place to store them. The world is looking for ways to reduce emissions. Having the need of a giant van, driving it for hours to burn more fuel with a giant jet is not sustainable future. As you can have it all with a smaller model, at a field closer to your house and be flying more frequently.
It also means multiple amount of investment and fuel costs. Also a place to store them. The world is looking for ways to reduce emissions. Having the need of a giant van, driving it for hours to burn more fuel with a giant jet is not sustainable future. As you can have it all with a smaller model, at a field closer to your house and be flying more frequently.
The following 2 users liked this post by Stobe777:
jescardin (06-06-2022),
Springbok Flyer (06-03-2022)
06-03-2022, 05:01 AM
#29
My Feedback: (53)
I am not a full-size pilot myself. However, being a RC modeller for 30 years I also do question the increasing size of some RC models. Flying giant models safely basically means flying them in an isolated airport with full size aviation permitting. Models always give way to full size aviation, so you may have to wait.
It also means multiple amount of investment and fuel costs. Also a place to store them. The world is looking for ways to reduce emissions. Having the need of a giant van, driving it for hours to burn more fuel with a giant jet is not sustainable future. As you can have it all with a smaller model, at a field closer to your house and be flying more frequently.
It also means multiple amount of investment and fuel costs. Also a place to store them. The world is looking for ways to reduce emissions. Having the need of a giant van, driving it for hours to burn more fuel with a giant jet is not sustainable future. As you can have it all with a smaller model, at a field closer to your house and be flying more frequently.
06-03-2022, 05:13 AM
#30
No. But as airports are being closed for housing and the rules are ever tighter also for full-size aviation I dont see expanding model size living very long. Just want to keep the hobby alive. But to each his own. Fly safe.
Last edited by Stobe777; 06-03-2022 at 05:36 AM.
06-03-2022, 10:36 AM
#31
Finland lacks domestic sources of fossil energy and must import substantial amounts of petroleum, natural gas, and other energy resources, including uranium for nuclear power.
Energy consumption in Finland per capita is the highest in European Union. Reasons for this include industries with high energy consumption (half of energy is consumed by industry), high standards of living, cold climate (25% of consumption is used in heating) and long distances (16% of consumption is used in transport).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Finland
I think you guys have a lot more to worry about than RC Jets?
Most countries have serious issues in regards to EPA type regulations for repurposing airports. The various toxins ( fuels, oils and fire fighting foams ) that leach into the soils over the 30~50 years of life makes a very expensive cleanup that simply makes the land too expensive. Those airports that are redeveloped normally turn in to wasteland years later as developers have cut corners or were unaware of the issues, then the lawyers come in.
As previously outlined large models fly less, and smaller models fly more. So maybe 6 times for a XXXL model and 50~100 times for a smaller model per yr? I would say your smaller model is going to have a much larger environmental impact? Lets face it when the environmental impact of model aircraft a become an issue I am sure there will be far bigger issues centre stage.
Aust has unused airports everywhere, and with the coming VTOL airframes there will be even more.
Regards,
Energy consumption in Finland per capita is the highest in European Union. Reasons for this include industries with high energy consumption (half of energy is consumed by industry), high standards of living, cold climate (25% of consumption is used in heating) and long distances (16% of consumption is used in transport).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Finland
I think you guys have a lot more to worry about than RC Jets?
Most countries have serious issues in regards to EPA type regulations for repurposing airports. The various toxins ( fuels, oils and fire fighting foams ) that leach into the soils over the 30~50 years of life makes a very expensive cleanup that simply makes the land too expensive. Those airports that are redeveloped normally turn in to wasteland years later as developers have cut corners or were unaware of the issues, then the lawyers come in.
As previously outlined large models fly less, and smaller models fly more. So maybe 6 times for a XXXL model and 50~100 times for a smaller model per yr? I would say your smaller model is going to have a much larger environmental impact? Lets face it when the environmental impact of model aircraft a become an issue I am sure there will be far bigger issues centre stage.
Aust has unused airports everywhere, and with the coming VTOL airframes there will be even more.
Regards,
Last edited by Halcyon66; 06-03-2022 at 11:56 AM.
06-03-2022, 08:55 PM
#32
Finland lacks domestic sources of fossil energy and must import substantial amounts of petroleum, natural gas, and other energy resources, including uranium for nuclear power.
Energy consumption in Finland per capita is the highest in European Union. Reasons for this include industries with high energy consumption (half of energy is consumed by industry), high standards of living, cold climate (25% of consumption is used in heating) and long distances (16% of consumption is used in transport).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Finland
I think you guys have a lot more to worry about than RC Jets?
Most countries have serious issues in regards to EPA type regulations for repurposing airports. The various toxins ( fuels, oils and fire fighting foams ) that leach into the soils over the 30~50 years of life makes a very expensive cleanup that simply makes the land too expensive. Those airports that are redeveloped normally turn in to wasteland years later as developers have cut corners or were unaware of the issues, then the lawyers come in.
As previously outlined large models fly less, and smaller models fly more. So maybe 6 times for a XXXL model and 50~100 times for a smaller model per yr? I would say your smaller model is going to have a much larger environmental impact? Lets face it when the environmental impact of model aircraft a become an issue I am sure there will be far bigger issues centre stage.
Aust has unused airports everywhere, and with the coming VTOL airframes there will be even more.
Regards,
Energy consumption in Finland per capita is the highest in European Union. Reasons for this include industries with high energy consumption (half of energy is consumed by industry), high standards of living, cold climate (25% of consumption is used in heating) and long distances (16% of consumption is used in transport).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Finland
I think you guys have a lot more to worry about than RC Jets?
Most countries have serious issues in regards to EPA type regulations for repurposing airports. The various toxins ( fuels, oils and fire fighting foams ) that leach into the soils over the 30~50 years of life makes a very expensive cleanup that simply makes the land too expensive. Those airports that are redeveloped normally turn in to wasteland years later as developers have cut corners or were unaware of the issues, then the lawyers come in.
As previously outlined large models fly less, and smaller models fly more. So maybe 6 times for a XXXL model and 50~100 times for a smaller model per yr? I would say your smaller model is going to have a much larger environmental impact? Lets face it when the environmental impact of model aircraft a become an issue I am sure there will be far bigger issues centre stage.
Aust has unused airports everywhere, and with the coming VTOL airframes there will be even more.
Regards,
At some flying sites in Finland use of cars is restricted as any oil will affect drinking water supply underneath. And yes, the same land has already absorbed decades of aviation fuel.
Interesting times. First Covid, then war and maybe an economic crisis or famine as a result. So no point in arguing here really about RC models.
I do respect David for his experience and wish mutual respect for us all in this hobby.
The EASA regulations are tighter than the ones we had before, but mainly the altitude limit is giving trouble at some sites. Registration and online test is new.
How much drone traffic can take our airspace remains to be seen.
As long as manned aircraft crash, RC aircraft may do that as well, I think.
TP.
Last edited by Stobe777; 06-03-2022 at 10:27 PM.
The following users liked this post:
jescardin (06-06-2022)
The following users liked this post:
jescardin (06-06-2022)
06-05-2022, 12:33 PM
#35
Not sure the actual purpose of this thread, these large models I presume you are talking about , have clearly gone through correct testing and sign off from governing bodies, there is a huge amount of money invested and experienced pilots behind them.
I guess let’s say , a wot 4 stoved into the side of a car isn’t dangerous ? Or up for discussion as it’s just a normal model with a dodgy pilot ?
being a witness to said individual flying through the pits , missing a 30 m wide runway and ignorance of even basic instructions at pilots briefing, I struggle to understand why you would appear to being having a rant .
I guess let’s say , a wot 4 stoved into the side of a car isn’t dangerous ? Or up for discussion as it’s just a normal model with a dodgy pilot ?
being a witness to said individual flying through the pits , missing a 30 m wide runway and ignorance of even basic instructions at pilots briefing, I struggle to understand why you would appear to being having a rant .
06-05-2022, 12:56 PM
#36
My Feedback: (53)
Not sure the actual purpose of this thread, these large models I presume you are talking about , have clearly gone through correct testing and sign off from governing bodies, there is a huge amount of money invested and experienced pilots behind them.
I guess let’s say , a wot 4 stoved into the side of a car isn’t dangerous ? Or up for discussion as it’s just a normal model with a dodgy pilot ?
being a witness to said individual flying through the pits , missing a 30 m wide runway and ignorance of even basic instructions at pilots briefing, I struggle to understand why you would appear to being having a rant .
I guess let’s say , a wot 4 stoved into the side of a car isn’t dangerous ? Or up for discussion as it’s just a normal model with a dodgy pilot ?
being a witness to said individual flying through the pits , missing a 30 m wide runway and ignorance of even basic instructions at pilots briefing, I struggle to understand why you would appear to being having a rant .
The following users liked this post:
Halcyon66 (06-05-2022)
06-05-2022, 01:31 PM
#37
Not sure the actual purpose of this thread, these large models I presume you are talking about , have clearly gone through correct testing and sign off from governing bodies, there is a huge amount of money invested and experienced pilots behind them.
I guess let’s say , a wot 4 stoved into the side of a car isn’t dangerous ? Or up for discussion as it’s just a normal model with a dodgy pilot ?
being a witness to said individual flying through the pits , missing a 30 m wide runway and ignorance of even basic instructions at pilots briefing, I struggle to understand why you would appear to being having a rant .
I guess let’s say , a wot 4 stoved into the side of a car isn’t dangerous ? Or up for discussion as it’s just a normal model with a dodgy pilot ?
being a witness to said individual flying through the pits , missing a 30 m wide runway and ignorance of even basic instructions at pilots briefing, I struggle to understand why you would appear to being having a rant .
The one thing that was never touched on in this thread, he is also a guy that in his mind believes he is on the same level as the great Bob Violett.
Dismal.
Regards,
Last edited by Halcyon66; 06-05-2022 at 01:35 PM.
