BasinBum

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Matt,
It's hard for me to predict how I would feel but there really are no rules, AMA or Apollo Field, that specify to fly in a pattern. The sign at the field says to take off and land into the wind but other that it's wide open. Now most people agree that over the run way there is a "pattern" but a mid air is a no fault occurance in my mind. Low speed passes against the grain seem like your asking for trouble and a potential safety issue as well but if you can't afford to loose it don't fly it. Besides if we are going to talk in terms of a "prevailing direction" many people would say low passes should be just off the run way and the returning pattern is out beyond that.

Ultimatley I would not hold the Basin responsible as some seem to do. The Basin doesn't kill planes, people do.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I don't quite understand why you are personifying the "Basin", maybe I missed something. I was just curious how you would feel if someone were flying that direction

If you go by the signs, then flying over the pits would be OK, high speed taxi tests in the pits would be OK, flying straight at the pilots and pulling up at the last minute (a guy used to do that all the time) would be OK.

To me you are not hard core "Basin" if you only fly the nice stuff during the week:-)

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I personified because your question included a quote and was ambigous.

I wasn't going by the signs but the rules and AMA flight line rules restrict flying over the pits. High speed taxi test is an over the top exageration and flying at people with a last second pull up is a blatent disregard for safety and he is supposedly banned for it.

I guess I'm not hard core Basin because I lately have been flying a less expensive plane on the weekends (as you know).

Spencer's is the first Jet midair that I am aware of at the Basin. I recall having a conversation not to long ago where it was theorized that jets are less suseptable to mid airs because of speed, spotters and increased flying abiblity of the pilots. Spencer meets all those criteria so I guess that theory might not be accurate.

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

Nothing is less suseptable to mid air's, not even park flyers or helicopters. It doesn't mater what field you fly at either. I except that and thats why im not going to stop flying. It was said in another forum, "If you fly at a field that has nothing but trainers there, asume the value of your aircraft (or jet aircraft) is the same as the trainers." So also assume every plane is just as acceptable to anykind of mishap. We call it a mishap or accident, It could be his fault for flying the rong way. It could be my fault for flying with him. It could be bot our faults for flying at all. So suprisingly im not that upset. Matt does have a point however, patern or no patern Its just comin sence not to fly the "wrong" way when flying the accepted pattern. Especialy when there's a jet flying with you. I never break the patern thus hoping to avoid a mid air. Lotta good that did. I think i only have broken the pattern once or twice on the rare occasion that I was the only one flying but i still got in a mid air. This doesn't mean Im not going to fly the pattern anymore either. I just might be more careful with who I fly with. But thats hard too. I didnt seem like I could have gone wrong that weekend either since it was only him and I in the air, but when else does a mid air happen?

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

I'd love to fly during the week, but im a senior in high school so I dont have time. (I should probably take John's advice and dropout so I can work at jetcat full time, haha.. just kidding)

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

the problem with rules is you can make them too specfic or too general, it is a tough balance.

The new rules (I think) would not allow a downwind pass like that, but I am not sure)

So if there is no rule for high speed taxi tests in the pits....."oh that is just common sense"...I don't think that will wash. The rangers told me they need a written rule to enforce. If we make some blanket rule about "unsafe activities" I think we will have the proverbial "unitended consequences"

As for midairs, I have had a few....

Viper in a 4 point roll, went over a guys wing while I was inverted , took about an inch off the top of my fin and about the same off the tip of his wing off....we were going the same direction with about a 100 mph difference is speed

Bandit, going southbound, I hit a Starfire going northbound. I was doing maybe 180, he was doing about 150. Total loss

World Models Zero, minding my business, doing normal patterns, guy dives right into me from above, he had no spotter.

I consider mid airs "no fault"...but when the other buy is blatant it is a very bitter pill to swallow.

I have met guys that have been flying 30 years and no midairs, I have been flying about 10.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Where I grew up flying (in Baltimore with the R/C Modelers of Baltimore) they had not had a mid-air in about ten years back in 1975 or so. That summer I flew just about every day that it was not raining. I had five mid-airs that summer. I was the mid-air king. I've had two or three more since (if you don't count the five or six intentional ones), but luckily never with a jet. So in 30+ years of flying, I've had seven or eight un-intentional mid-airs. Too much!!!

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Probably just an old timer remebering Pearl Harbor!

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

I have been flying for eight years and never had a midair. Ive seen only one other mid air before. I have NEVER seen a jet crash, even at rally's, im always in the john or something when they happen. Kinda ironic, my first mid air, and the first time ever witnessing a jet crash it was my own. The funny thing is, i pictured my self sitting in the car crying if that ever happened, instead I just laughed about it with the guys. I guess somewhere when i was walking back to the pits carying my smoking engine I realized it could have been a lot worse (kinda thanks to matts incident with the bandit, no offense matt, and again im still sorry for that considering that was the first jet I ever saw, and its probably the reason why Im where I am in the hobby today). I even apoligized for yelling at the guy and said I was sorry for his airplane, to which he replied, im not giving you one f^cking penny for your piece of sh*t and Ill kick your ***** first. That kinda got me upset, there I was apoligizng to him and he doesn't even own up. All i wanted from him was an apology and he wouldnt even give it to me. But unfortunetly sometimes you run into these guys and sepulveda, no pun intended.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Matt,
When was the last time you saw a ranger at the field?

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

There was a ranger at the field when i had my midair, he came over a said he was sorry.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I talked to 2 rangers there maybe a month ago.

I mean it is really the only reason to have signs, is to get the rangers to enforce them. Otherwise it is a free for all.

You try to tell someone politely what a rule is and you get a nice "f*** you" back.

The rangers are ready, they will write tickets against posted rules.

tamjets

My Feedback: (2)

You guys are really brave to flying there.
That place well know for jets going down. Too much things can happen.
Tam

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

Well, there arent many other places to go unless you want to make an outing out of it. Im fairly bussy and I cant aford to drive for two hours just to fly. And realy, theres still a ton of things that can go wrong anywhere else. But if you ant to call it brave, go ahead. I actually feel kind of ackward flying anywhere but sepulveda, considering other that jet rallys, thats the only feild I fly at. (A while back I flew at conejo and camirillo, but just a few times. I actualy found the lack of people quite lonely and unnerving.)

Syclone guy

Hey Spencer,

I wanted to let you know that I am sorry about your loss. I know that this happened more than a week ago, but I was in Miramar with the Jet when this all went down. I have always looked forward to the Jet Formation with you and the Yellow Roo. I hope you get back on the wagon soon so we can fly together. You are a true sportsman and accomplished pilot.

I have often heard Brian yelling at other pilots for doing the same thing while I was flying. It usually upsets the balance of a good flight, and I find myself buying some altitude and keeping my distance to maintain safety. Weekends are definitely a risk, but still lots of fun. David and John have a good thing going while flying during the week. There are very few people out there, but I know it only takes two planes to tangle.

Torrey

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Torrey. I wish i could fly with them during the week, but as I said its just not possible for me right now. I hope to be up in the air within the month, Im rushing to finish my f-15 for arizona, but the stuff I need wont be here for another week, so I'll try but no promisses. I had originally planned just to take the roo. After I finish the F-15, I think im going to start rebuilding the roo. So you can look forward to flying formation with the yellow bird once again. haha.

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

yeah, its too bad Brian wasn't out there with me, haha. How was Miramar anyway? I havent heard anyone talk about it.

Syclone guy

You missed a great show Fri, Sat, and Sun. Formation inverted flat spins smoke and all with Joe McBride's 47% Cap and my Hotspot, also inverted very low passes underneath the low hovering Cap and Doug's 42% Ultimate; Sean Tucker performing at his best; A 300mph Jet Tank; The Blue Angels; and a pyro night show that would blow your mind.


Torrey

CantCatchMe

My Feedback: (1)

Awesome man, wish I coulda been there. As of lately, I havent had that much luck with the inverted low pass, lol.