Brian B

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Even though the full scale BD-10 was good at killing off pilots, it is a very nice looking plane and would make a nice looking model. But, I have never seen one, or even heard of one. Has it been done?

JET FX

Hi Brian, I also have been interested in this aircraft. More so as a future full-size homebuilding project (one day). And apparently the current owner of the full size BD-10, moulds and tooling is not too far from where I live here in Ontario, hmmm. And it certaiinly would make a great jet model also I think IMHO. The design appears to have been influenced by the T-38 and F-15, It is indeed a pretty airplane [8D]

Rider-60

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Hi Brian,

I remember a pic in RCjet magazine a long time ago, it was powered by a viojet, I'll have a look at my old issues !

Marty,
Do you know if they have sorted out the troubles of the full size? Is there any prototype stilll airworthy?

Florent

Rider-60

My Feedback: (17)

Ok, I've got it.
April/May 1995 issue in the 6th superman fan fly report page35.
Two models were present belonging to Mr Ron Sorg and Paul Appelbaum

If someone know them may be they could tell us more about this!!![8D]

Florent

JET FX

Brian and Florent- I am only aware of two full-size BD-10's that actually have flown. I am unaware of any fatalities involving the BD-10 so can you please share any info involving these BD-10 accidents? It sure is a small jet (for full size) if you have had the opportunity to see a full-size BD-5, then you know how tiny the BD-10 actually is also.... I can see how the BD-10 would theoretically be an almost feasible homebuilding project for many.... And a very cool simple scale R/C jet model as well [8D]

mikeacro

My Feedback: (4)

There are at least three fatalities involving the BD10 including my friend Frank Everett. I believe the aircraft exibited control problems in the high indicated speed range. Flight control problems exsisted as low as 290 kts. I don't believe any of them flew faster than 385 kias. It is my understanding no high speed/mach wind tunnel testing was ever done. I believe the are only two left. The original prototype and I think one in Ohio that may have been sold. It would make an intersting model although after spending much time with the real thing only to loose a friend would probably keep me away from it. Good luck to all who try it.
Cheers, Mike

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Brian,

Colonel Bob Thacker built a large one several years ago that was featured building article in one of the modeling mags...For some reason "Flying Models" or "RCM" comes to mind.

As stated, it was a fairly large plane for it's time. (I believe it was around 80-90 inches long) It was Byro-Jet powered. The model was constructed using the lost foam method. (The model was shaped in foam, glassed, and then the foam was disolved using a solvent.)

Hopefully, the Colonel or one of his friends could chime in here!!!

Kevin

BlueBus320

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I think there is one in one of the SKS crasher videos

Terry Holston

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I have a laser cut EDF kit by Dan Gregg. I never built it, gonna get around to it someday. LOL

Heer

I guess the project has change the name.
Javelin Jet could be the new name. Built by Aviation Tecnology Group/Colorado.
Target speed is 528 kt TAS, two Turbofans Williams FJ33-4, IFR-range 1250 NM.
Virginflight: fall 04. Western Aircraft in Boise, Idaho is the first dealer and maintenance station.
Regards F. Heer
http://www.jetmodel.ch

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

As mentioned earlier, Paul Appelbaum made molds/parts for a BD-10, and flew them with Ron Sorg. Ron doesn't fly anymore, but Paul still does. He's in St.Louis. I know he used to sell partial kits for the BD-10. He currently flies a Visionaire Vantage prototype model. I don't know if the BD-10 was ever turbinized, but I'm sure it could. If you can get ahold of either Bill Harris or Wayne McClosker in STL, they may know how to get ahold of Paul.

Oh yeah, and the Javelin is a totally different aircraft from a different company. I have a friend that just went to work for ATG on that aircraft[8D

Daren Savage

My Feedback: (6)

I'll ask him this morning if he shows up at the flying field. I've seen it in his garage, but don't know any of the details.

Daren

pja

Yes I did model the BD-10 roughly 9 years ago but it has never been turbinized. The kit has a 48" wing span and a fuselage length of 64". It is powered by a VIOJETT with 81 and 91 and has Romair retracts. I produced about 15 kits and currently still have the molds.[/font]
I worked for Jim Bede on the Bede-10 for 5 years. The history of the 5 Bede-10 full-scale kits produced are as follows:

1. The original Bede-10 Prototype was sold in bankrupcy to a Canadian firm that was going to try and convert it into Drone
2. Fox-10 produced the second Prototype in Minden, NV. Mike Vanwaggon, the test pilot and Owner of Fox-10, was killed
when increasing the flight envelope. The verticle stab bent in flight and caused in-flight break-up.
3. Fox-10 produced another Prototype. The test Pilot was also killed when a flap asymetry condition occured upon landing
4. A Bede-10 kit produced by Jim Preebie in Ohio was produced and sold to someone I do not know.
5. A Bede-10 kit was built in California and owned by Frank Everett. This one recently crashed within the last year killing
Frank. Cause was unknown.

If I were workin gon the Bede-10 model kit today, I would have made it a lot bigger. As it stands, it would make an O.K Modle for a RAM 500 type engine.


If you have any other questions, let me know.



Thanks,

Paul Appelbaum

rcs1313

The magazine that featured Col. Bob Thacker's BD-10 was in Scale RC Modeler some years back. I lived in Apple Valley, CA. (Victorville, CA. area) at the time, about 91/92, so it was in those years . Always did like that magazine, Norm Goyer, think that is the way you spell it, did a good job as editor......

Rod Springer

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

I think I saw one of the 48" wingspan BD10's at superman 2002. It was sold for around 600.00 and then flown all weekend buy the buyer as I recall. It looked great, and I thought it was a good buy RTF. Does anyone else remeber seeing it fly there?

RAMFlyer

My Feedback: (65)

Col. Thacker presented the model he designed and built in the February, 1994 issue of Flying Models, Plan #CF925. Plan cost has actually gone down to $20.00 from when I bought it!

Wingspan: 67"
Length: 89.25"
Weight: 18 Lbs
Engine: .90 Ducted Fan
Fan: Byron
Wing Area: 1189.75 Sq. In.
Retracts: Yes

Fuselage is built using the lost foam technique. Wings, horizontal and vertical stabs are hot-wired foam sheeted with balsa.

Plans and back issues are available at www.flying-models.com

BlueBus320

My Feedback: (57)

Hey Paul,
That was great info. Im curious, I saw a real BD10 fly at Sussex county airshow in New Jersey (still have pics of it). It was in a blue angel type scheme & I talked that pilot dizzy !
Was that one of the aircraft involved in a fatal accident ?
Jermaine

pja

No, that was Jim Preebie aircraft. I think he decided to sell after the problems in Nevada.

DStone

This past October I saw a BD-10 in Blue Angel colors in an aerospace museum in Toronto, Canada.

K Jorgensen

My Feedback: (2)

COOL Airplane... [&:]

Dose anyone know where you can get som nice 3 ore 5-view drawings

KFalcon

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www.flying-models.com

Kevin Greene

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Man, am I good or what?!?!?!?! I guess that my memory isn't that bad after all!!!!

Kevin

Thomas B

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For those that might like the full story of the BD-10 accident investigations over at the NTSB, click on the link below, set the dates to 1993-present, and type BD-10 into the space under "Aircraft" marked Model. It shows the two fatalities and another non fatal accident.

[link]http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp[/link]

I was leaving work one day years back, and heard an unusual jet sound over the runway at Carswell JRB (old Carswell AFB). Looked up in time to see a BD-10 make a pass down the runway at about 600 feet. My only sighting ever of this lovely little jet.

mlumbert

I would like to say hello to Paul and thank him for all the excellent work he did on the BD10s that I have flown. His work in the industry is second to none and very well respected.

I would like to add a small amount of information to Paul's history of the BD10s that have flown... Jim Preebe's aircraft as well as the protoptype were bought by the Canadian company. Jim's aircraft was eventually grounded after strain gauge tests on the verticals, due to questionable construction issues which were discovered. To make a long story short it ended up in the museum in Toronto. The prototype was sold to a private owner in Phoenix. I flew it in a few airshows and did some additional test work on that aircraft, and it was eventually sold and delivered to another person in Phoenix a few years back, where it has sat and never flown since.

Heliboy saw me conduct a 350 kias pass at Sussex, and having done that at countless airshows I am fairly certain that I have never encountered an inflight breakup. I also encountered a split flap situation during an airshow while semi-inverted at low altitude one week before the accident in Minden Paul described. Having flown more hours in BD10s than anyone else combined (and having had a proportional number of incidents and problems), I hope I have some usefull perspective on it's history. Like any aircraft accident, there is always more to the "full NTSB story" than what has been published. The aircraft argueably had design issues, but to a certain degree we must cautiously and respectfully consider the "operational circumstances" which surrounded and may have contributed to these accidents. With aircraft a common problem exists whereby people make changes and "improvements" (after all - it is experimental!) and assume they are better than the original, without cautious and prudent testing to verify those "improvements." After all - would any of us intentionally make a design worse or less safe? Although our intentions may be good and our ideas seem to make "perfect" sense, the only things that are true with respect to any aircraft design is only that which has been carefully tested, and then operated within known limitations which provide adequate safety margins. The three pilots lost in these accidents were also friends of mine, and any accident for any reason is always a tragedy.

I may be able to dig up some pictures and 3 views of the BD10 and also of the proposed modified design made when I worked for the Canadian company if any of you would want to see them. I also would love to see any pictures any of you might have of these aircraft for memory's sake...

Hope this helps some...

Mike Lumbert

ozief16

My Feedback: (13)

While I was going through RTU in Phoenix I was on the hunt for a personal plane (hated not flying on the weekends). I went and looked at a BD-5 at an airport on the north side. I met the gentleman that is the 'private owner in Phoenix' (yes, he had the BD-5, the BD-10, a T-33, 2xF-8s, etc etc). He proved to be a very nice man, and although I didn't buy the BD-5 (I bought an RV-3 instead), he spoke fondly of the -10. I don't know if he ever intended to fly the plane again or not. Hope this helps the history of the full-scale.

Additionally, when I was in HS, I was working the line at an airport in Chicago and we had a couple that was interested in the BD-10. The prototype flew in and spent the night in our hangar. I spent most of my shift that night drooling over the plane. It experienced maint. problems (leaky fuel tank in the spine) and was unable to provide the incentive flights the couple had requested (and the reason it was in Chicago in the first place). The couple ended up buying a helicopter if I recall, as the BD-10 faded from the scope.

As Mike says, there usually are a lot that isn't always included in the NTSB reports (often based on sheer volume, varying recollections, etc). I would jump on Mike's wagon and say read them carefully and recognize those men were doing the best they could with the situation they had...and some paid the ultimate price. Let's remember them fondly, and let's not judge (not saying this would happen, just that human nature can lead us down that path at times).

Not sure if this helps anyone, but thought I'd share the memories just in case...

Dave