anyone got any good recipes? anyone tried disco smoke fluid?

I understand Mick Burrel is fogging everyone out with his smoke system. Whats the secret, Mick ?
BRG,
David G.

www.mdw-aviation.com
Super-Dri smoke oil

Harley Condra
BVM REP
RAM REP

Thats fine in the US, Harley, but what do we in Australia and UK use ? We need a basic ingredient recipe !
BRG,
David.

Hi David
Hows Oz, traitor

I use straight diesel oil, for good smoke it's not so much the fluid but how it's introduced. You need large volumes of oil my model uses 2 liters in 4 to 5 minutes! I pump the oil into a 4mm brass tube with a turbine pump. the end of the tube is flattened to give a fan spray. The system is so responsive you can draw dots in the sky.

Mick

what is it in the diesel that makes it smoke so good? what about using something less smelly, like some other type of oil?

When I was involved in full scale aerobatics,many years ago, we used Texaco "Corvus" oil. It is an oil used by concrete contractors to prevent concrete from sticking to the forms. We used flow rates totaling .5 gal/ minute in the exhaust stacks on IO-360 Lycomings.
Roger

Like the curate's egg, very good in parts !
Wife is in London so on my own Went flying in preparation for jets over sydney this weekend. Just a prop model but had the field to myself with not a breath of wind, clear blue skies and a winter temp of Plus 18
See you in UK later this summer !

Right, smoke. My F15 has a TME pump system, been using diesel and Jet A1. Will try just diesel. Yes I too have a fan spray but somehow it just does not give a dense smoke except at idle

power. Tried it in the garden, wife thought we were having an eclipse !

I'll try again,

Best regards,

David.

PS How i miss those hard runways of the UK !

Hi David,

You need a hard runway....we have one lined up at AB for 12th July....apart from Mick's diesel smoke, we'll also have bacon flavoured smoke coming from Chris' tent!! Drop in if you're in this part of the world!

Cheers,

Dick

I.m planning to Dick with my BobCat ! See you there all being well ! (smoked bacon sarnies !)
BRG,
David.

Years ago I made my own smoke oil with readily available ingredients.
Many others have used it as well, so it is not new----50% #2 diesel fuel, and 50% automatic transmission fluid. Use the cheap ATF from the grocery store---not the expensive major brands.
It makes great clouds of white billowy smoke.

Harley Condra
BVM REP
RAM REP

Thanks Harly, I'll get some this afternnon !

Now, what dye do you use !
BRG,
David.

Here's another commercial alternative to home-brewed smoke oils.
Using "GOOGLE" for your search engine, use "smoke oil" in the search line. Exxon Telura 612 is on the second page, and there is an explanation of it's useage as well as the phone number for more information and the dealer information.
It was the smoke oil used by all smokers at the Oceana NAS air show this year. Call 1-800-44-EXXON.

David, If I find out how to add colors, I'll get rich overnight!!!!!!

Harley Condra
BVM REP
RAM REP

Harley,
There must be a way ! The Red Arrows and Patriuille de France use diesel oil with dye to make red and blue smoke and the Frecci Tricllori produce green and red from their aircraft.

Do I get a share if I discover the secret?
BRG,
David.

from the "red arrows" HP:

>How is the coloured smoke made?
Strictly speaking, it is not smoke but vapour. If you look closely at the underside of thr Red Arrows' Hawk, you will see an extra fuel tank bolted on to the lower fuselage. This tank contains ordinary diesel fuel. At the back of the aircraft, immediately above the jet exhaust pipe, there are three tubes. The diesel is pumped out of these to produce the vapour. Many people ask if it is one for each colour. The simple answer is no. Due to the quantity of diesel and dye required, it is pumped out of all three at once to produce the fantastic trails that you see. When the diesel from these pipes meets the extremely high temperatures found in the jet exhaust (over 550 degrees Celcius), the diesel immediately vapourises creating an intense white cloud. With separate switches on his control column, the pilot can chose to add either red or blue dye to the diesel and produce the two other colours. If you stand close enough to a Red Arrows display, or the wind is in the right direction, you will be able to smell the vapourised diesel but the experts tell us that it is completely harmless to health and environmentally friendly. Certainly, there are no cases of anyone's health being affected by inhaling the fumes. The company that manufactures the dyes has a website, and more information can be found at:
www.rohmhaas.com/businesses/chemspecs/dyes.html,
or you can e-mail:
[email protected]
<

i sent an email, but never got an answer.
maybe you have more luck.
mec




http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/faqs.html#faq8

One of my fellow flying instructors at the RAF College of Air Warfare at RAF Manby, (halcyon days, in 1971-3) was Brian Hoskins who led our team, The Macaws, but we didnt have smoke on our Jet Provosts. Hos went on to lead the Red Arrows and converted the team from Gnats to Hawks (and later made Air Commodore) so perhaps its time I contacted himor the Arrows to see exactly the smoke system they are using for colour. Certainly they used diesel, and it stank !

I flew BBC cameramen to film the Macaws and I really had to work hard to stay in formation in inverted flight, their speciality , the relative aileron response really does become reversed ! Think about it, but don't do it in the bath, you could drown !

BRG,
David Gladwin

<you will be able to smell the vapourised diesel but the experts tell us that it is completely harmless to health and environmentally friendly>

Somehow, I find this hard to believe.
I certainly wouldn't inhale a bunch of it.
That's what bothers me when I see all this smoke talk, it looks pretty, but don't we have enough pollution in our air already?
Can't we find a way to use water or something a little less dangerous to our health?
I think of the contrails from jets up at high altitudes.
Maybe just do it in the winter when the air is cold.
I've been to full scale airshows when the wind is blowing the wrong way, thought I was going to die choking on the fumes.
There must be a better way?

Hi David,

You'll never believe it (knowing what shape I describe now) but I played squash against Brian Hoskins a few times when he was leading the Reds at Kemble! I heard a rumuor that he now works for FRS (didn't that used to be FRADU, or something?).

Anyway, I am back at work on Monday so I'll give the Reds SEngO a call to see if he can get me an NSN or mfrs ref no for the stuff they use to dye their Derv.

Just as an aside, a million years back when I was an apprentice, I got hold of some of their dye and experimented to see if I could make coloured smoke come out of my well clapped out 4th or 5th hand OS Max 40 that I had in an all-metal control liner (which was fun!). From what I remember, the only smoke I saw was that coming out of my mother's ears when she saw my clothes - the dye don't come out...of anything...so wash ones hands before using the loo is the order of the day when playing with this stuff!!

Looking fwd to seeing your Bobcat next month.

Cheers,

Dick

Dick,

Its a VERY small world. I think FRADU has become FRS, no doubt someone in MOD trying to make a name for himself by changing someone else's.

If you do contact the Reds and anyone on the team (based at Cranwell now, I believe, but use Scampton as a RLG) knows where Hos is I would love to get back in touch.

I used to really enjoy my squash, too, but I have been banned by Wilma, at my age that sort of exercise is pushing my luck. You stilll have years to go !
BRG,
David

BRG,

David.

Any Ideas on how to make black smoke? The F-4 and F-104s smoked like trains.

Well you could always stuff a couple of tires in the tank

Im sorry I just had to. ROF

Re the coloured smoke on the Reds Hawks. I have been reliably informed that it was Biro ink that was used to colour white smoke

OK gang.....we've done the research on trying to color smoke and I will continue to look into new avenues, but for the most part we found that it is a serious carcinogin. This is much more serious than just ruining your clothing. In addition, it also eats the covering off of your plane!

.......it looks pretty, but don't we have enough pollution in our air already?

Our smoke fluid is non-petroleum based, vaporizes the carrier nearly completely which means there is very little cleanup as well as very little polution. Unfortunately for you folks in the UK and Australia, until we get hooked up with a distributor to purchase a large lot, the shipping cost is prohibitive. If the right outfit came along, I might consider licensing the production in your country(s).

Here in the States and anywhere else you are willing to pay less than $10/gallon plus shipping, contact us through Air Capital Hobbies Online. Lots of billowing white smoke, no haz mat shipping surcharges, and leaves your plane cleaner than other formulas. Check our customer comments on the website.

http://www.aircapitalhobbies.com/ultsmk.htm

I have contacted Rohm Haas last year in an attempt to bring some of the colored smoke to Superman. Here was the issue. The dye that was mentioned in a previous post is the material to use. It must be mixed 50/50 with a "standard" smoke oil. The minimum amount of dye that I could purchase was in 5 gallon tubs. I think the mixed figure I came up with was $50/gallon.

There are a few tricks to getting the right dye as well. Some of the colors come in various flash points, as low as 76 degrees. Still trying to make contact with the technical service rep about the proper selection.

To get black smoke, the Rohm Haas article has a mix that requires you to mix several of the colors together to get a dark gray (not fully black).

Steve Flaten

#1 FAVORITE - Diesel & Concrete Form Release Oil 50:50 (obtained from construction industry goes under the name of Texaco "Canopus 13" oil [formerly called Corvus Oil], EXXON Unuius-15, SUNOCO 222, Corbisol.) (Source: the late Ed Izzo from Florida (inventor of foam construction technique for model wings))


Kerosene Diesel & kerosene 50:50 (Source: unknown)


Diesel and Automatic transmission Fluid 50:50 (Source: unknown)

Smoke Fluid Recipes....

Diesel and small amount of butyl carbitol (used by clothes cleaners) no more than 30% butyl carbitol (Source: Model Airplane News article.)


Diesel oil No. 2 (Source: unknown)

Lemon oil (used for cleaning) (Source: customer at WRAM show 1997)


EXXON Mentor 28 (Source: Ad Clark, Kalispell, MT)


LAMP OIL by Lamp Light Farms and 40% HAVOLINE 5 OR 10 WEIGHT OIL.
HAVOLINE is a parafin based oil, seems to work best in smaller 2-strokes ( Source JIM KITSON From: PAGE, ARIZONA)