Hi,

I'm serious thinking off beginging whit "jets".
I have read that most off the turbine guys first flew DF.
First I wanted to buy the yellow aircraft F-16 / avonds F-16 whit a DF and then fly it whit a turbine.But is it also a good turbine trainer.
I know scale flyers aren't the best trainers but they are so nice
I fly acro planes and hotliners and I think the time is right to take the last step.

Any input would be great.
Thanks Jasper

More like the next step, if you think you are a good pilot, can handle a fast plane and are a meticulous builder just go for it, no need for the D/F pain and agony, a turbine is the way to go been more reliable than a D/F engine and you are bound to be successful and enjoy this part of the hobby.


happiness on your next quest.

CARS II

The avonds F16 would be a far better choice for turbine over the Y/A F16, it's much larger. Also good is the Aviation Design F16. I don't know that an F16 is really the best choice for a first jet to begin with though, they have a pretty small wing which can result in a high wing loading pretty fast.
At any rate, with the ease of operation of turbines, and the reliability of them, I don't really think it's necessary to start with DF anymore, I never had much luck with Fans, but turbines, oh man what a rush

Most fan engines can be such a pain to deal with.

We were joking around talking about the differences of landing a turbine and a ducted fan at the flying field the other night.
With the turbine I'm always working to slow it down enough to land. Our ducted fans would usually die when we went to idle so we were always struggling to keep enough speed to make the runway

Jasper,

Go for an Avonds F-15. Looks great and is scale so will keep you happy AND it DOES fly almost like a trainer!!!

Rgds,
Mark

Jasper,

I know you want a more scale jet, but the Facet 2300 sold by Great Northern Models makes a great first jet. It flies as easy as a trainer and when you really let loose it really hauls the mail. My buddy Gary hit 157mph last weekend. Judging from the airframe you would not think it could fly that fast, but it really moves. Then on landings, you drop the flaps and it slow down to a walking pace. Lands easier then some 40 size trainers.

I would keep things simple and do a scale jet as your second one. Believe me once you get into flying turbines you won't stop with just one plane, you'll want more of them.

Good luck,

JR Gautreaux

Jasper,

Don't be afraid of DF's because they are pretty good if you have the right combination of Fan/Motor.

I am building a YA F-16 with an OS .91/Dynamax, and I am keping it very light. I don't think you could fly an Avonds with a DF though, it is way too big.

I learned how to fly jets with an F-16 (BVM) DF and had no problems with it, keep in mind that the YA and Avonds should be a lot more stable on slower speeds. I do recommend that if you decide for a turbine, there is no need to get an ugly turbine model like the 'roos and the Facet, they are very practical but it is more rewarding to build and fly a scale jet. The reason I say this is because you will most certain spend 100-150 hours building the model, so saving 40-50 is not saving anything at all, unless you're getting an ARF.

Funny, saying Ducted Fan is like saying Voldemont on Houghwarts.

On the other hand, if you got the $$$ get a frakin turbine. Your wife will love the smell of Kerosene, but your dog may not.

If you have questions you sure came to the right spot.

Regards,

David

What in the heck is a Frakin turbine [X(] Is that someything new that Al Frankin is building [X(]

Larry

Yeah, it makes a load of noise, but doesn't really go anywhere.

yea, sounds like Frankin to me!!!!

Larry

I hear bad things about the Frankin Turbine, It takes a "Liberal" amount a glue to keep the turbine mounted to the "left Wing"

Joey.

"FREAKIN TURBINE"[:@]

It was late when I posted it.[&o]

Hi,
Thanks for the many reply's.
After the post off "FalconWings" I whent to the BVM site.
And there F-16 looks really nice also and not to big.And it looks like the cheapest one I came acros[sm=lol.gif]
Do's anybody got any idea what it would cost to mail it to belgium.
And "FaclonWings" have you got some more info about your BVM F-16.

Thanks.

I would say the Avonds F-16 is superior to the AD for a couple of reasons, or has a advantage wich will confirm the right choice as you start to use the model.
First, the Avonds has a mush bigger hatch, allowing you to have a better control of the components inside. Also easier to get all the stuff inside.
It has lower weight, and if buildt according to the manual, this will ensure you to get a light weight fighter, easily airborne from grass, with no flaps.
Flight caracteristics is just about the same for both. App. 50 % of the total lift, comes from the body itself, as the Vortex lift is generated due to the caracteristic shape.( Any F-16)
I would not hesitate to recommend it as the first jet-project at all.
Very few scale projects behave like the Falcon.Very easy to fly, just take spesial care as the nose gets higher at low airspeed.
If not followed up with moore power, it will drop like a brick. Not suddely, but as a result. Quite fun in safe altitude!
To do this model first as a DF, and then convert it to turbine, is just the waste of time.
I have heard the much smaller Yellow F-16 is moore tricky, and if it is, this confirms: The bigger, the better, wich is a thumb-rule to all airplane models.
Just go for it, Jasper!

Regards

Gudmund

Jasper,

The BVM F-16 is no longer manufactured. The only ones left you may find here on RCU for sale. I sold mine with everything on it for $800 last month, including scale gear, BVM .91, etc...It was great to fly. Everybody here says that BVM is coming out with another F-16, but I wouldn't expect it to be small nor for DF power.

Also, the BVM kit was a lot more expensive than the YA version, it was also a finer kit. The YA F-16 is exactly the same size as the BVM one, but it is $500 cheaper. There is also an ARF version of the YA kit that is simply the best ARF jet I have ever seen!!

Go to www.tamjets.com and look at the F-16 pictures, it kicks ass.

Again, I don't think you could fly an Avonds kit on a DF. It is very big!!

I agree with Goodmann, bigger should fly better. If you any specific questions regarding the YA or BVM F-16, just shoot me a Pirvate Message and I will answer you right away. There are some guys on this forum that have NIB BVM F-16's for sale, I'd say go for it!!!

I have seen a Yellow F-16 fly before, and it glides just like a pattern airplane for landing, very different than the faster BVM.
There is also the Byron F-16, but it doesn't really fly like a DF, it is kind of mushy and sluggish, but it is said to be the best DF trainer.

Good luck, Im here to help!!

Thank you very much for the reply's.
I think I'll go whit the F-16 from yellow aircraft and if finacy lets it whit a Jetcat P80.
I thought the BVM F-16 was more scale and the yellow one a more sport version.
But I was led by the paint sceme that I saw the yellow one in.The BVM one looked so good in [link=http://www.gajets.net/Library/Tips_and_Techniques/BVM_F-16N/bvm_f-16n.html]this[/link]
But also saw the F-16 in blank colour and they both look scale.
I have also looked at some threads here about the YA F-16 but could not find anything about power system and servo's,....

Thanks.

anyone have info on this f-16 at jetwelt germany?

http://www.jetwelt.de/jetwelt2003.pdf

Jasper,

The BVM and YA are both good quality in terms of scale. The airfoil en the BVM model is more realistic (very thin), while the airfoil on the YA is thicker and has a flatter bottom (like the real one does), this makes it a lot more stable on lower speeds, and more manouverable at higher speeds.

However, the intake on the YA model has a small bump to make room for the nose wheel. Also, the nose wheel retract on the YA version is more scale than BVM, it has a support strut just like the real F-16.

Im installing AMRAMS and LANTIRNS on my falcon. It will look dirty but I don't care one bit. A clean F-16 to me make no sense.

Keep posting!!