Zeek_87

I've just taken up R/C aircraft after about a 20 year hiatus. During that time i've picked up my pilots license and a couple ratings along with more flight-sim hours than I care to admit to. I'm currently puttering around the cabbage patch with a .60 size trainer.

So what i'm looking for is some input on what would be the quickest way to get my skills up to a level to take on a Jet. I've been throught real flight training and understand that there really are no shortcuts, but there must be some .

I'd love to hear from the wealth of experience what I should do, and what I shoudn't do as far as flight experience. Also is there is consensus on the minimum hours needed to take on a jet???

Thanks.

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Turbine or Ducted fan?

Vin...

Zeek_87

Good question, I guess I was a little vague there. I really don't know. Should you fly ducted fans before turbines. I'm drawn towards turbines because of the technology and who doesnt like the smell of burnign kerosene

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

Get a really fast prop plane, with retracts and maybe flaps too. That would help you on your way! And be cheaper than a ducted fan.

It will all depend on how quick you pick it up and get used to that type of aircraft.

Zeek_87

Well, after a 169 views I was hoping for a little more input. Guess I'm just another "wanna-be" looking for advice. Does anyone know of resources on the net or can take the time to add a little more input.

Thanks JohnVH for taking the time...

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

I second what JohnVH said. Good advice!

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

Well, I'm no expert here, and everyone has their own opinions, but it typically goes like this for your interest path:

1. Trainer model.
2. Low-wing model.
3. Fast, more complex low-wing model.
4. Ducted fan model.
5. Turbine model.

If you want to get into number 5 quicker, you could probably remove an above category or two, but that just means you'll have to make less mistakes!

Alot of people want to avoid the "hassle" of number 4, but this is where you learn good fuel tank installations, flying models without propblast on the tails, heavy wingloading models - most of which make up the turbine models. You could combine numbers 3 and 4 into a single model - for instance a Topgun F-15 or so... It may or may not get you 150 mph, but it certainly will get you experience with retracts, etc.

On each type of model listed above, there are new things you'll learn, whether it has to do with building, or flying, radio installation, etc.

Good luck, and have fun!

F900

My Feedback: (2)

Ron,

Your right on the money, thats how i planned to get to flying turbines, your step from 1 to 5.

I'm at step 4, i bought a BVM F-86 as my ducted fan trainer, as i've said before Ducted fan engines have been a hassle Free experence, i have not had any kind of problems regarding starting and running the engine.

In the year that i have been R/C flying each aircraft i bought had was always different from the one i had previous, so i could learn something new all the time. In the 8 airplanes, i have had everything from Scale trainers to projets (2) and complex aircraft, i.e Flaps gear etc, to get the where i am now.

My advice would be to get a Fast prop jet as mentioned above and if you can a ducted fan jet. The way i look at it, i'm enjoying flying ducted fans right now, i did not think in a short space of time i would be where i am now, many people have told me that i'm ready to make the move to turbines based on how they have seen me fly the F-86. I know the day will come when i fly turbines, probably sooner than i think, but whats the rush, it will happen and by then i'll be more experienced from flying D/Fs, i will be used to the speed of how fast they fly.

And more importantly i will feel as sure as i can be that the Turbine jet will take off and land, just like i did with the D/Fs jets i had, still in one piece and ready to fly again

Robert

JET FX

Zeek_87
http://www.TJT.bz
If you feel you need to learn more about R/C turbines there operations and applications, feel free to visit our web site. It is very educational for the new turbine pilot or soon to be! We designed site for people similar to your self who find serious turbine information on installation, systems set up and operations! hard to come buy....
If you are looking for any specifics Zeek contact me and I will be only to happy to discuss and forward relivant info...
[email protected]
All the best-

Brian B

My Feedback: (5)

The advice in the previous posts is right on. You need to move up from a trainer to a low wing to a fast prop plane with a high wing loading and at least retracts, then to a DF plane, and then on to a turbine. That is how I did it and how most of the pilots I know did it.

You can skip the DF stage if you have the skills, but consider the cost of crashing a turbine plane vs a DF plane. Instead of being out at least $4000, you only lose a fraction of that. You should be able to pick up a ratty Maverick or similar for much less than any turbine plane. If you wreck the Maverick at least you are not out too much money. So I would advise that you get some DF time before turbine time. It will also make it a lot easier to get your waiver.

Cowdog

My Feedback: (13)

Zeek,

Ditto on what the most of the guys have said here. I would definitely second the DF route before a turbine for a number of reasons. The complexity of a DF and a turbine are "fairly" similar when viewed at the complexity of a high end low wing prop job. Retracts, brakes, high-end servos, mixture control, higher wing loading, tight spaces to work in and need for throttle management aren't found as much in the prop world. The biggest problem I had was getting used to the different flight characteristics (lack of rudder authority on the ground, slower acceleration, higher lander speeds).

Its a lot easier to find a $1000-1500 DF plane to learn on and crash it than have a $4000 turbine plane and put it in the ground...

Shaun Evans

Zeke,

You've been given some pretty sound advice. It seems, these days, that there are a lot of guys who want to skip the DF step. It's certainly possible, depending on your talent and your help, but there are a lot of very valuable skills that you'll learn from turbine's closest simulation--DF.

Like F900, I don't regard DF operation as a hassle. My experience was quite the contrary. The level of complexity of electrical, fuel and exhaust systems on turbine airplanes is so much more than the most complicated setup on a prop-job, that building and maintaining a DF bird will prepare you for that. Less daunting=more fun.

RCUniverse is a great place to find inexpensive DF planes and accessories, so there's really no reason to think you're throwing your money away to go the DF route. Good luck!

jetpilot

My Feedback: (48)

I had some very cranky DF and some that never gave me a problem. My all time favorite DF was an old Starfire 1 with the square inlets. That plane was like a Timex. It never let me down. One could get a little discouraged with the wrong DF. I have seen it often. One could also get very discouraged with a poor setup. A setup I preferred was an OS 91 with BV pipe. Relatively economical and user friendly. The only thing I hated was the Orings on pipe went bad very frequently and it was a messy pain to change them.
Buy an airframe that could be converted to turbine later, like a starfire. Probably stay away from scale and keep in mind something that will land in grass easy without tearing up, and with a wide stance. An F 16 would not be a good choice. I definately think you would be missing out on valuable experience if you skipped DF. I learned alot with DF that has helped me be to the point I am today. I recently purchased a BV F100. I'll take it one step further and advise when you make the transition to turbine, get a Kangaroo. It is a great trainer testbed that will increase confidence 10 fold.
Scott Marr

Shaun Evans

Jetpilot,

You have an F-100? Whoa. How is the kit? How's the buildability? I never liked the Hun until I saw Kent Nogy's fly at Dixie. Rich Fong has one for the history books (finish wise). What are you powering yours with?

As far as DF setups go, I think the best pipe going is Tom Cook's System II. It's a little heavier than BV's, but it's quiet, and it doesn't have O-rings to blow out. You can get 140 runs out of it before you have to replace the rubber.

n.carrozza

My Feedback: (3)

Its funny you and I have both come back from a 20 year break from the sport. The turbine is what brought me back. I have just recieved my turbine waiver last month and am working on a hot spot right now. I started back slow and worked my way through faster and faster prop planes. The quickie 500 with a good Dub Jett 40 will sharpen your skills for the speed. An old warbird with retracts and even flaps will get you up to snuff on the extra gadgets. My favorite plan for speed to date is the F3D from Kangee. Great plane, and with the right motor, I used a BSE 35 FIRE Dub Jett, THe plane flies great. Its very fast and does not want to slow for landings, sounds like a jet. Plus its small size and very narrow frontal view will sharpen your eyes.

Good luck on your quest
Nick

Zeek_87

First of all thanks for all the great respnoses, its been really informatative. I can see I still have a lot to learn, and there really is no shortcut just different combinations of learning the same things. I can see R/C universe will be a great resource

Any suggestions of a good low-wing plane to fly next, maybe w/retracts??


Thanks again guys,

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

You should look into one of the Byron powered DF models. If you can handle a four channel plane, you should be able to handle one of those. Much easier to fly than most DF models.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

I have a direct connection F20 with a YS.45 and spring airs on it for a faster prop plane. They Cermark has a 60 size with retracts and whatnot too. Also if you can find a GP Patriot.

www.directconnectionrc.com

Here is the Cermark F16 ARF
http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/mer...egory_Code=AAA


Here is their f20
http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/mer...egory_Code=AAA

Zeek_87

Shaun,
I just took a look at the Yellow Aircraft Int'l site, great looking models. I noticed your just a stone through away in Lexington. Is there much jet flying locally??

Silver182

My Feedback: (2)

Unless you can find an AMA / CD / designate that will sign you off doing "the demo" flight with an aircraft of lessor performance, ?? you should look toward mastering a higher performance D/F.

Remember the new rules say the demo flight must be flown at 150mph. The rule is not clear as to how much or how little of that flight can be flown at speeds less than 150. Not many D/F actually will fly at those speeds, (unless going straight down) and none of the Byron types that I know of will.

Nat Lancaster (district IX AVP) and I, submitted a proposal to the safety committee / AMA. That proposal included reducing the "150 mph" so high performance, complex, high aspect ratio, commonly available war birds would fit the ticket. The AMA's answer was a clear NO --- the higher speed is a must !!

If the sign off CD / designate sticks to the "Rules by the book" (hummm how many do??) not many war birds would fit the aircraft criteria. For the most part just the "Madeira type Racing war birds and only the fastest of them" 150 mph is faster than you might think. We in the turbine world are use to the higher speeds, but most R/C model aircraft will not even come close to sustaining that speed.

If you can maintain, sustain, and time after time operate a high performance D/F you can easily and safety transition into a turbine powered Jet. On this point no one would disagree.

Nat's and my argument was that there is another level of complexity, and slightly lower speed aircraft that can ingrain the same learned prerequisites for safe turbine operation. See attached letter of denial, of our proposal from Don Lowe, the AMA safety committee chair person.
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

I passed flying a prop plane with retracts, it wont do 150, or close to it, is over 100 though. Most CD's should be more worried about how you fly, not how fast you fly, you dont have to fly full throttle at 250mph all the time.

This is where common sense and knowing your ability comes in.

Just MO

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

You should find a local field and see some of this stuff fly, and see what you might feel comfortable with.
Ron S. above has some really good advice on the steps normally taken, and he also points out that not everybody needs to do every step. Depends on the pilot.
I would not worry about getting my turbine wavier yet. Get a nice DF and see how you like it.
Personally, I do think a DF ought to be a prerequisite for a turbine wavier. Only a DF has all the complex systems that a turbine might have. As far as the sign-off goes, it's up to the CD, totally. If the CD has seen your other models, and feels like you know all the systems, and feels good about signing you off if you are demonstrating with a simple propjet, then what's the problem? It's up to the CD, and they need to make a JUDGEMENT call. It's up to them to judge the overall picture of how you fly, build, and maintain your aircaft, and whether or not they feel you are ready.

seller20

If anyones looking for a fast flying kit I am selling a great planes patriot. If you putt a jett 50 on it you can get speeds of 160mph for more info email me at [email protected] or go the the following link

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...hlight=patriot]