schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Have just been looking through the instruction manual of my new 2.6m Yak and saw this picture.

It would appear that Graupner Harpoons and BVM KingCats are made at the same factory alongside Composite-ARFs!

Kingcats are at the bottom, Harpoons on the left and my Yaks on the right!

SJN

yep... :-)

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

If you see a king cat after seeing a comp-arf kit, you can immediately tell whi its made by ... I will say however, that the kingcat is built to a totally higher standard than any comp-arf plane i have ever seen. The woodwork that is installed is the same quality and build as that of BVM kits made by BVM here in the USA. the fuselage , wings and booms on the KC are rock solid, and there is not a piece of the plane that looks like its flimsy (like the rookies, roos , and eurosports feel and look) From th moment you open the box, there is no doubt that this plane is built for some abuse and it will like it. There is only 1 complait i have about the KingCat, and that is that I hav to glue in some of the wing tubes in the wing and booms, i don't see why this could not have been done at the factory ... (i guess there must be a reason) otherwise, the plane goes together like any other ARF ... install landing gear, servos, and mount equipment up .... i am starting asembling mine this week, and to tell you the truth, i don't see this even being the 40 hr job everyone says it is .... I guess I'll find out ...



Wojtek

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Shame the KingCat gets to go down the "extra special" production line whilst everything else goes down the "Ooops nearly forgot (or did forget) to put that in" production line

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

I agree .. i had to substitute a lot of my own parts for the rookie that should have been included, and a lot of modifications were necessary to make everything fit/work ok... my Rookie needed a lot of glue joints redone also .... yea, it is a shame, but comp arf knows that BVM would probably just refuse planes that were not meeting their quality expectations ..


Wojtek

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Can anyone list the Jet kits that are made completely in the US. It would be good to know.

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

All of Jet Model Products kits are proudly made in the USA by Tom Cook's own hands. Well actually Susan Cook might get her hands on some of it.

Kerry Sterner produces all of his own stuff also. (waiting to see his F84F kit)

Flyjets

My Feedback: (51)

Composite Aircraft

While everything you guys say is true there is to high a premium to pay for Violets products.

I understand R & D but the bottom line is as these companies turn out better products all the time. BVM will have

to either introduce a low cost kit or just stay as very limited high end manufacturer.

My "guess" is he will attempt to do both. I expect a lower cost ARF in the future from BVM.

Ian

jetflyer

My Feedback: (5)

Ian,

I don't agree, I think BVM will always have high end products and the price to go with them. While I don't personally own a BVM jet, from the ones that I've seen, the quality is second to none. His product quality is what attracts his large following. Everyone knows they will get a great product that has been thoroughly tested and engineered to perform.

The old saying - You get what you pay for - is true even in our jet hobby.

JR Gautreaux

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

if you take the KingCat and compare it to all the other ARF jets out there, i think you are actually paying the going value for such a jet !! lets compare to a eurosport

- eurosport with landing gear and struts, bifuricated pipe, intakes, speed brake, wheels, brakes tanks, etc .. figure what almost $3000 ?? now, compare the KC at around $4200 which comes with kevlar tanks, wheels , brakes, struts, all hardware, and no worry of the plane coming apart in flight or gear busting out ... i think the ~$1500 diff over the ES is justified in components and quality alone ...

- you can not compare the KC to a rookie, roo, or cermark stuff ... , thse planes are junk compared to the KC ...

though i have complained about BVMs prices in the past (like what thy used to charge for the f-16 compared to yellows, and i though for 1/2 the price the yellow was a way better deal .. ) i think i got every pennys woth of a plane with the KingCat !, i am very impressed with the plane so far , especially the quality, and the engineering .. the plane is designed right !! if you build it per manual, it gives you the exact positions of all components, and linkage leng lengths, etc ... after build, you can even download the JR datasafe of BV's plane into your radio, and you are set (i broke down under everyones pressure and got a new 10x to add to my 2 9Zs .... i feel like i sinned )

I have also seen other BVM kits lately, and also for the price, you really do get what you pay for ... look at the AFS saber, or the t33 .... and even the $7000 Rafale is a good price once you see what you actually get !!


anyway, this is coming from a dude that thinks BV is a *^%&*(^^( ....



Wojtek

Reason for edit, unnecsasary bad language and unneeded!

Shok

My Feedback: (28)

This conversation in various forms have taken place for the last 13 years or so.
We didn't have the internet back then like we do now, so conversation was limited to jet rallys and the phone.
Some people also thought back then that with his prices set quite a bit higher, that he would have to make a lower cost kit to stay competitive.

Flash forward to 2004, not much has changed.

jkirkon

My Feedback: (6)

Wojtek,

People will always buy BVM stuff just because of the name, and the quality associated with it.
It IS higher in price, but is IS good stuff, and that, in my book, is the bottom line.
Hard for me to argue with stuff that fits, and works as advertised. I think most people will pay a premium for that.
Like we discussed the other day, I have had no problems with his attitude, but then again, the couple of occasions I have spoken to him, I have had my credit card in hand. lol

Brg,
Jeff

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

- eurosport with landing gear and struts, intakes, speed brake, wheels, brakes, tanks, etc .. figure what almost $3000

All of the above was less than $2000 on my EuroSport and the airframe was laid up by the same people that laid up your KingCat. I personally think I got the better deal.

The JMP Hustler is all hand built by Tom Cook. It's bigger than the KingCat with similar flight envelope and if you buy every option Tom offers for it, (more than you get with the KingCat) it's $4508.80

Granted it's not an ARF, but it is all composite and builds quickly.

Either Tom is selling his Hustler too cheap or BVM is making a killing on the KingCat. You decide.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

and you probably have a gaping hole in the front like a spreadd @$$, cheap tnaks, and single pipe ... add up all the options for the ES like the intakes gear doors, brakes, kevlar tanks etc , robart gear and its over $3k

you tell me its a better deal when your gear mounts bust out


as for the JMP stuff, yea i know its great .. but for the price of a KC, you get a kit, yea a lot of prefab, but still a kit ... for whta you get, i think JMP and BVM are equally priced ....

what i do think are AWESOME deals for the value these days are the Skymaster/Airpac planes ! I have the f-15 and the Grippen on the way. The plane is built solid and well enginered, and for an arf scaler, the detail is great also !! and not thy are offering more paint options ... i think that is Skymaster starts doing paint like Yellow does (like the new f-16 arf, beautiful !! ) they will really dig themselves an even more solid nitch in the market ...


anyway, im out of this one .....

Falconmod

Does anyone have any more info on Kerry Sterners F84-F? Does he have a web site.

Thanks

John

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

Copied this from another thread.

As an update to those who have responded to my RCU poll on my F84F Thunderstreak design, here are some particulars that may be of interest.

I have finalized on a 1/6th scale airframe size which yeilds a 67" W.S. x 86" O.A.L length which provides a very generous wing area. Suitable power, 18 - 28 Lbs.

The airframe tooling is in progress, the scale retract protrotyping has been completed and is EXACT scale in function. The materials of construction for the initial offering will be a F/G Fuse w/ sheeted foam core flight surfaces as this yeilds the best price offering with a full composite struture possible at a later date.

Scale appointments planned are: scale functioning Canopy, external wing tanks and other scale weaponry.

For those who may wish to compete with the F84F, it offers some VERY interesting weapons delivery flight manuvers that are unique to the F84F and a VAST repository of Color Schemes.

While I have a total commitment to this project, I will not post a time frame for availability as in most cases these self imposed timelines are generally missed by designers/mfgr's for a mulitiude of reasons and builds unrealistic expectaions and only serves to disapoint , however, the progress to date has been very good and with a Full Scale airframe only 35 minutes away, I'm not lacking for scale detail info.

For those who wish to be placed on a non-commital "potenial purchase" list, please forward your name and contact info, (preferably by e-mail) and I will provide you with progress updates, price & delivery info as they develop.

Best regards.

_____________________________

Kerry J. Sterner
KJ Scaled Designs
SIMJET of Penn.
[email protected]

uncleTom

My Feedback: (30)

I personally feel all importers should show the country of origin of
their aircraft, but you know some people are like sheeps. If their
shepherd leads them to a cliff, over they go, no questions asked

hanna

My Feedback: (3)

I thought there is some law about labeling foreign content in stuff sold here. % and country of origin? Mike Krizan

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

legally only the country of final assemble has to be listed .....



Wojtek

F900

My Feedback: (2)

I wonder if Bob fears that in a years time, there is not a copy King cat Arf for sale, similar to what happened to the JHH hawk Arf.

And I thought the King cat was made in the US, i guess not by the looks of things

unknown

Now thats a better comparison than the Eurosport VS Kingcat.

These guys have more carbon fiber reinforcement than any arf in the market (skymaster)

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Actually, its a 60+ hour job... but an enjoyable one.

Bob

Gazzer

I find some of the comments interesting about the cost versus percieved quality and the BVM story being brought in.

Yes I am knew to jets with an unstarted BVM T-33 but I was fortunate to be shown around the factory when I was in Florida. A recent shipment of KC's have come in and Bob freely explained where they had come from.

But he continued with the fact that each one is unpacked checked and something is not right, and is put right before it gets sent to its new owner. In a word, quality control.

I am sure it is a struggle for BV to keep at what I percieve to be the top of the tree, but he has done so and therefore there is a premium to pay for his products. I beleive from my own experiences, that customer care is there and is excellent quality, the "don't worry, it will get sorted" attitude, is again something for a premium.

I am known for being miserly with money and this jet thing is way out of my normal league, but I have made sure that I set a budget, but within that budget I want the best value for money and with my limited experience, BVM has I think given me that.

The Mercedes A10 is a horrid cheap nasty car, that does however suit many people and I think is not made on the main production line but passed out somewhere in the EU. It is made ostensibly by the same people who make those nice luxury cars that go on forever....... so the pedigree is right, and you still pay for the name!!!

QED??

Gazzer

Miguel Santana

My Feedback: (6)

The existence of brands like BVM with its hight standar level, is the reason of existence of all other brands in lower level & price.[/i] [:-]

One can not subsist without the other....in my opinnion.

Miguel

GrayUK

In England B V M is known as 'Beyond Viable Money' by some people!