Blinky

My Feedback: (11)

Has any one had their ECU upgraded? If so what difference did it make concerning AMA,s new rules. I had the new software installed and my ECU will only shut down if I program my switch channel to go low when failsafe is active.

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

I'll let you know later today. I recently had mine upgraded to meet 2005 specifications. My understanding of the ECU upgrade is simply there should be a 2 second delay from when the ECU determines loss of continuous signal from the TX. So, if you plug in your EDT and power up your ECU, calibrate the 3 beeps (old style ECU BTW), then turn off your TX, you should be able to see the shut down arrows after 2 seconds.

If however, you turn the TX back on prior to 2 seconds the engine should continue operating.

perhaps one of the AMT heads will pop in here and provide amplifying info. I'm just another satisfied user.

good luck

Buck

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

What is AMT doing with the old ECU's to comply with rule #8:

"The fuel system shall have two fuel shut-off provisions, one of which is
manual and the other one must be remotely operated. An ECU operated solenoid
valve is compliant as a remote shut -off if it closes with loss of power."

I know that the new AMT ECU's have a fuel shutoff solenoid, but what do you do for an old ECU to meet this requirement?

Bob

pilot76

My Feedback: (15)

how bout 2 manual ball valves , 1 being servo operated.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

You could do that, and it seems as that would meet the letter of the rule, but is that what guys are doing with the old AMT's? You gotta add something in there to meet that rule because the old AMT's don't have a fuel shutoff other than the manual valve...

Bob

EddieWeeks

Wouldn't the ECU turnning off the fuel pump count as a remote.. ?

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

Eddie, Roger, Larry K

check your PMs

thanks

Buck

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I don't think so Eddie. I think they mean a servo or solenoid operated positive fuel cutoff. I'm just wonder what AMT folks are doing to comply with that rule.

The new AMT ECU has a solenoid operated cutoff similar to the JetCat one. Is the only option to upgrade to that ECU (500$ or so, I think), or is there an easier way to do it? If a servo operated valve is OK, anybody know of a off-the-shelf unit available out there so you don't have to cobble up something on your own?

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm honestly asking the question. The NASA guys I work with have quite a few AMT's that they would like to be able to fly at an AMA event on occasion and I'm wondering if there is another option other then them changing out every ECU.

Bob

EddieWeeks

I don't understand the logic behind all this... Why is there a rule that says there must be a solenoid ??

You know if everything is not right the ECU will kill the power to the fuel pump and the engine quits...
Even under pressure you can't get fuel through the pump.. I could argue the fuel pump is my solenoide
because it does the exact same thing...

Someone may say.. If the ECU locks up then you can stop the engine with a solenoid...
Well isn't the solenoide pluged into the ECU ? and a locked ECU will not change anything..

Am I missing something.. ?

If my engine is running and I shut off the transmitter the engine quits real quick... What is the problem..?

Eddie Weeks

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

I agree with Eddie on that!!! Off is Off.. no matter what tells it to turn off. If the ECU runs the pump and the solnoid valve, like JetCat does, it would be pretty far fetched that pump circuit would keep running but the valve would do what it's supposed to and shut.

Unclear and listening...

Danno

Blinky

My Feedback: (11)

Hey fellows my original posted question is not being discussed. I'm very much interested in how pilots with JR 10x radios and AMT old ECUs set up their equipment to shut down per AMA rule.

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

Manual ball valve and upgraded electronics. I gotta call AMT tomorrow to confirm I'm not screwing something up.

what channel is your 3 pos switch on?


buck

Blinky check your PMs

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Blinky,

I'm not trying to hijack your thread man. As a matter of fact, I asked the exact same question a month or so ago. Back then, I was thinking that you could simply set the failsafe to bring the ECU aux. channel to shutdown. The shutdown process (not the auto-off, which takes a longer time) takes a few seconds, and I believe that if the switch is brought back to run before the fuel pump stops, the engine will continue to run. That way, if you had a momentary failsafe event, you could probably ride through it, but if you went into failsafe for good, you'd get a shutdown that was close enough to two seconds to meet the spirit of the rule.

However, when I asked that question, somebody else pointed out to me that even if you did this, the old AMT ECUs do not have a remote operated fuel shutoff, and thus, you still wouldn't be in compliance with the AMA rules. The NEW AMT ECUs include a solenoid-operated fuel valve and are in complete compliance.

Eddie, I don't believe that just shutting off the fuel pump meets the requirement of rule #8 (posted above). If it did, why would they go on to say that a solenoid must default to closed with lack of power in order to be in compliance?

RcjetsOK, this is not an issue with JetCat engines - just set your shutdown timer to 2 seconds in the limits menu on the JetCat ECu and you're good to go.

Buck, when you call AMT, could you ask them about how to comply with the remote-operated fuel shutoff requirement with an old AMT and enlighten us with their responce, please? Right now, I don't see how to do it without upgrading to the new ECU...

Bob

EddieWeeks

That is simple.. There are plenty of solenoids that stay open with no power...

I think this really needs to be cleared up because it starting to look like any upgrades are pointless..

Eddie Weeks

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

you bet. I"m flying late tomorrow night so hopefully Blinky will have an answer for us after he talks to AMT tomorrow AM. However, I was under the impression as was Eddie and Danno that the loss of power from the ECU was my remote operated shutoff.

L8R

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I know. My point was, if simply shutting off the fuel pump was acceptable, why go to the trouble of being specific about the solenoid?

I agree Eddie, I really would like to know what the right answer is. Anybody know the AMT guys well enough to call and see what their thoughts are on this specific issue of compliance with rule #8?

Bob

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

maybe someone can get Roger Shipley, Larry Kramer or any of the other AMT Reps to chime in once they get an answer.

AMT USA Webmaster

Hi Guys,

Here's the scoop... I think most of you are using AUX 4 on your transmitters for your second channel. Unfortunately JR does not include this as a programmable failsafe channel. To setup the failsafe you have to use a programmable failsafe channel. Once you select and determine what is high and low travel on the channel you select, this is how to program failsafe.

1. Program it to between 15 to 30% of the low travel on that channel.
2. To check and see if it is set correctly shut down the transmitter and you should hear slow beeping from the ECU. If you hear fast beeps it is not set correctly. I would recommend starting at around 15% and raising it until you can turn off the transmitter and you hear the slow beeps.

The updated software took care of a couple of issues brought to our attention by Ray Davis.

1. Bring up our old ECU's to AMA 05 standards. This is done by programming the failsafe to a one second delay for Futaba radios because they have a built in one second delay in the system. On JR radios you need a full 2 second delay.

2. On our old software on the old ECU's if failsafe delay was turned on the delay was added to emergency shutdown. With the new software it does not have a delay in emergency shutdown.



Bruce Cormack

AMT USA
Phone: 304.375.3777
Email: [email protected] or [email protected]

jeteye

To solve the problem with the setup I have, aux 3 is used. It's simply set up with the regular fail safe channel. My brakes are now in aux 4.

The General

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Guys,

From my own reading of the rule and the discussions I've had with other folks, it seems to me that in order to use the old AMT ECU's, you'll need to add a servo-operated fuel shutoff valve in order to comply with the requirement for a "remotely operated" fuel shutoff...

Bob

Ray Davis

My Feedback: (1)

Guys, I think I can put the speculation above re a separate fuel system shut-off...to rest....for AMT or any other turbine. CM is supposed to get back to me (couldn't tell me w/o going back to the 'Committee'!), but here is my take:

Paragragh 8, for a few years now, has required both a remote and a manual shut-off. An ECU-initiated remote shut-off (stopping the fuel flow by stopping the fuel pump) has always complied before, I'm certain it does in '05, as well. The AMA has, indeed, made it confusing w/ that last sentence re solenoids, kinda inferring they are needed for compliance. Probably added for any engine not using an ECU (e.g., old JPXs...all two of them!). They should have left it crystal clear....ya gotta have a remote cut-off, however it is done. Period.

I will reassure again after I hear from Carl.

Ray

c/f

My Feedback: (1)

Heres my take, in reading the above posts it seems that most everyone assumes that a PCM radio/receiver is the norm.

Well I think the wording "does" get complicated because the AMA has not dictated that a PCM radio is used, thus no failsafe function programming.

Thus why a turbines ECU must be able to pick up the slack "IF" such a situtation exists.

Interairco makes a failsafe programmable relay output widget, that can be y into a channel and control any kind of device. This topic is being brought up world wide thus it's creation.

CALL me crazy but with 6 AMT's @ this time I really dont' see that the original ASU airstart umbilical chord that big of a deal. the new 400 was shipped with the new ECU and it will require more individual connetion by myself at start to secure all the info I currently enjoy with just one plug in chord. I'd rather not have multiple starting gear and the new AMT ECU is not helping my situtation out. hmmmmm..............

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I was going to ask why they do stuff like that and then I remembered we're talking about the AMA...

Thanks Ray! Please let us know once and for all what he says is the right answer.

Bob

Randy M.

My Feedback: (38)

I will have my ecu reprogrammed and that's it. I'm legal. My ecu operated fuel pump is and always was the remote operated fuel shutoff.

Kmarks

My Feedback: (36)

I agree with Randy M.

Kevin Marks

PS I own 5 USAMT engines.