Hello All,

I read with some dismay the opinions and thoughts as to how and why certain awards are given out at Florida Jets.
I'd like to take this opportunity to explain, keeping in mind that I have no reason to mislead anyone.

First of all, normally the judging takes place about Noon on Saturday. We lineup all models "That Have Flown" and 7 judges with their clipboards choose wht is their favorite in seach category. This year, some people that were asked to judge were "too busy" so we went with only 5 judges.

The judges sometimes make a mistake. And they sometimes do not agree unanimously on anything! This year was no exception. One airplane got 2 votes for Critics choice and 3 others got 1 vote apiece. Not exaclty an overwhelming majority! And that same scenerio repeated itself for all the awards.

However, there are 2 things that some may not understand. One is that in order for the Pilot to receive an award, the Airplane must have flown PRIOR to the judging time. In many cases, several contenders had not flown in the previous 3 days of flying and they therefor were not eligible for an award. The judges sometimes make a mistake and give an award to an airplane that has not flown and sometimes overlook one that has. Can't help that. With over 180 airplanes it is difficult at best to keep track of this stuff.

Last but not least, for whatever reason, a great majority of the aircraft at F.J. were built from BVM kits. And the majority that were flown on a regular basis were from BVM as well. With that many in attendance, it is only natural that they might recieve a larger share of awards. This year, there were 15 awards. Non BVM models took 30% of them.

I would hope that, regardless of my brazen personality, that nobody would think I would stoop so low as to ask the judges to give an award to a "friend". Last year, 50% of the awards went to non BVM aircraft.

I am happy to discuss this with anybody who sincerely cares and I am most happy to take suggestions on how to get a better or more fare judging platform. Keep one thing in mind though. In years past, we gave out forms for all pilots to return with their votes for each category. We had to stop doing that because when it came time for turning the votes in, we never recieved more than a handful. And, sometimes, certain groups would "gang up" and vote for their best budy!

That's the story. Thanks for listening.

FT

Just say to heck with it Frank and give awards based on attendance. Have some cute little kid pull names out of a hat and call it good enough.

I know some people like the recognition of an award, but c'mon guys, are they really that important? For most of us it's just a hobby, so take it easy, forget about the prize and accept the pat on the back or adulation as reward enough. The manufacturers and people who make a living in the hobby business will be rewarded with increased sales if they show up and prove in front of a crowd that their stuff works well, works consistently and is as good or better than advertised.

By not handing out "best of" awards you will keep animosity to a minimum. That's one reason we did away with prizes at our event (well, that and budget :-) )

Good luck!

Antony (who just wants to fly and enjoy the hobby)

No kiddin, I've got a couple plaques (somewhere [&o] ) Last year at Southwest Jet Rally someone I highly admire and don't spend a lot of time talking to came over and just gushed all over my F-15. Meant the world to me. These things are so subjective.

I reallly like what they do at the T-38 Jet Rally. On Friday afternoon, a photographer comes out and takes a picture of everyone with their jet. On Sunday, EVERYONE gets a plaque. I do know where that one is

These events are not contests. They are not Top Gun...where the whole premise of the event is to win. At FL Jets, BITW, Superman, and the like, if you hang with friends, get a few awesome flights, and HAVE A GOOD TIME, then you are a winner.
The awards only add a nice touch to the event, and with the "people's choice" award, allows the spectators to feel as though they are involved by promoting audience participation.
For the upcoming BITW, we fealt it necessary to develop a "judging criteria" because of all the btch'n and moanin' that has gone on.
Bunch of crap, IMHO.
Just go, have a good time, and bring some cheese if you like "whine" that much.
Frank, your events are the "benchmark". Don't change a thing.
Paul

Frank,
Pesonally it doesnt matter to me, but since you brough it up I thought I would point out a few things.
You gave "best civillian jet" to a KingCat, when there was actually a ViperJet (wich was the only civilian scale jet in Florida)on the line Saturday and had been flown...I talked with you about this and you said "If your not out on the line Saturday....you dont get an award" then you give the "Hot Stick" award to someone who left Friday evening.....and wasnt even at the show Saturday or Sunday? You said that the judges were not sure if the planes have flown and the criteria was that it "had to have flown"....still at the awards presentation you gave an award out for "best graphics" to a plane that did not fly and as you were handing out the award you said "he promised to fly it tomarrow"!
I am just trying to help you out Frank, everyone loves attending Florida Jets.....but your awards have no credibility because of these things, and people start making up their own oppinion's when they hear you contradict yourself. I know this sounds a little harsh, but remember it was your idea to "clear things up" so I assumed you wanted the truth.
I could go on, but I thought these few examples would be sufficient for now.
By the way Frank....did any of your Judges see Adil's F-14 fly? Did they know it was a twin? just curious.



Dave

Sounds like maybe doing away with the awards would be the best answer....[&o] Then the only complaint would be that there wasnt any.

Frank
Thanks for all the hard work you do promoting the hobby. And thanks for the events you promote as well.
Best regards
Greg Anixter

Frank,
I hate to see you get beat up for such a non issue. I said this in the last topic that FJ is not a competition but rather an event. Trophies dont matter. I never expect to get a trophy at any event I go to. Its nice, but if somone got upset I got the trophy over them then I wouldnt even want it. Winers have to ruin everything. Without them we wouldnt have anyone to ruin our good time.
I would also like to thank you for everything you do for the hobby. One of these days I would like to COMPETE in Top Gun. I would hate for you to get any grief from something so small and deter you from continuing any future events.
Scott Marr

Dave,

I don't mind answering. And I truly do not think i am contradicting myself. It's just that it takes so much to explain what goes on on the inside of an event this large that I sometimes try the "reduced" version and it doen't work!

It is most important that you know that the "Judges" are nothing but regular modelers that work the event, and have no allegiance to any manufacturer. That is why they make mistakes. You are absolutely correct about the Viper, but they thought it was a Sport model! Therefor, at the Awards Dinner, we said that the Best Civilain model award would become the Best Sport Jet "Runner Up". The change never made it to the writers or to the list on the web site. That is why a King Cat got that award.
I did NOT say that if you are not on the line you don't get an award. What I did say is that if your airplane was not out on the line, the Judges have no way to have it in front of them and they may not put your plane in the running. As far as The Hot Stick Award, it went to the guy that flew the crap out of his jet and nobody flew more than that kid did. And he did all those flights in 2 1/2 days. And every one of the judges saw him at least a dozen times!
The award for Best Graphics was a mistake as well. They thought it had flown. That F-18 was out on the line to be judged so they assumed it was in the running. I don't blame them for that, it certainly wasn't their fault that the airplane was there erroniously. And when you consider that everyone but one of those markings were paint, in the judge's eyes, he deserved that award.
And the Judges DID see that F-14 fly. And that would have been their choice, "Hands Down" but it DID NOT FLY up to the time that the judges voted. They specifically asked the pilot himself if he had flown it yet and he said, "maybe later, maybe tomorrow". It therefor was out of the running.
That's my explanation. If it doesn't make sense, I don't know how else to explain it. We surely did not set out to offend anyone, or to hurt anyone's feelings. We try our damnest to make this event one of the best. You say that the awards have lost their credibility. All I can say to that is that I think that the guys that won them deserved them. I do agree that had some airplanes been flown prior to the voting, the outcome would have been different. But I can't change that!
I'll try harder next time and I am still open for suggestions.

FT

I was wondering the same thing about the Viperjet. I was also wondering how a Kingcat was able to fly during the "scale" flying event.

I personally had a great time at FL Jets, even though I only flew twice. Dont know much about the awards process...but does it really matter? To me its about hanging out for the weekend with people I only get to see during the meets. I really dont even go to fly my plane as I can fly all I want at home without worrying about 5 other planes in the air at the same time. I dont really care who wins an award. Do you really think that next year anyone is going to remember who won what at FL Jets? I would rather see the entry fees lowered and forget the awards.

Mike

Woah Woah, I loved Florida Jets each time I have been there and I will continue to go every year. Frank wanted to clear things up and I was the only one who has the ball$ to tell him exactly what all the other people are saying behind his back. I did this because I wanted him to know the truth, not because i wanted to complain. I think Frank does a fantastic job at Florida Jets, and I have told him this personally and thanked him for putting in the effort so that we can all have a show of this calliber to attend. This thread has nothing to do with if Frank does a great job or not at Florida Jets....that is a no brainer. This thread was because Frank wanted resolution to all the rumors that he had been hearing about people complaining about the awards. I know Frank, and he wants to know the truth about what people are saying......not a bunch of you kissing his butt so you can get invited to Top Gun!

First let me point out that (mainly for logistics reasons) I've never attended your event, so have no bias either for or against it. Anything I say here is therefore just an uninformed response to points that you or others have raised, and not my opinion of the event.

First thing I have to ask, is that if the above quoted issues are causing you problems, then can you perhaps change them ? e.g can you do the judging later on in the day when more people who can come only for the weekend have had a chance to fly ? And / or maybe have a special slot on Saturday that gives priority to people who haven't flown yet, in order to give them a chance to "qualify" ? And / or can the judging be "phased" ? (Maybe do most of the judging at a given time as you currently do", but allow judges to continue to monitor additional aicraft fly during the rest of the day ? Or maybe give most of your trophies to models that fly before your deadline, and have a separate trophy or two that can go to a model regardless of whether it flies before your deadline ? There are obviously some challenges to some of these ideas, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are unworkable.

For situations like strawboss mentions, where a "civilian jet" award went to an aircraft that was a sport jet rather than a civilian jet - is the classification simply assumed by the judge, or does each pilot also put the aircraft's category on the "info sheet" that I assume goes along with each model when it's lined up for judging ? Maybe there's room for clarification there ? Dunno.

Again - I wasn't there, so am not judging or crtiticizing- just tossing out a couple of ideas that may or may not have already been considered.

Good luck,
Gordon

I am glad you are aware of what ALL the other people are saying behind someones back and bringing it up. I am sure this will really help things and create a warm friendly atmosphere and everyone will have an opprtunity to pile on to someone who works hard to promote the hobby. Although I am sure Scott can answer for himself if he chooses to, the point is that running a show of this sort is hard work and sort of a thankless task and you will never please all the people all the time. I am glad someone has the time energy and enthusiasim to run events like Florida Jets. My opinion was if it was so biased and unfair then no one would want to show up. And, I have already been invited to Top Gun.

Best regards and have a nice day

Greg Anixter

Im not kissing butt trying to get an invite. Just trying to say that the trophies dont matter and i hate to see Frank get grief over it. You go to a show, you know who deserves what, a $10 plaque shouldnt cause so much controversy.
Scott

Gregg,
Maybe you missed the part where I said that I thanked Frank for all the efforts that he put in so we could have an event like this to attend, and what a great job he has done!
Scott, you are absolutley right...A trophy shouldnt cause so much grief.

Mayby we can play musical chairs for the awards instead... [:-][:-][:-]

Frank, thanks for all your hard work. Anyone who has ever been to Florida Jets knows what a job it must be to put on such a fantastic event. I have always had a great time and a ton of fun @ your events. Im with Scott and the others that think having fun at a class A event is a reward in itself. As we say here in Texas" Im here for the party" !!!!! Ray Blair

"not a bunch of you kissing his butt so you can get invited to Top Gun! "
Oh man this is great stuff..my side hurts from laughing so hard..thanks for the entertainment guys.

Frank runs a professional, tight ship at FJ and Top Gun. At times he can be a "Diamond In The Rough". However, he puts his heart in it and that is obvious by his high energy execution of the events he puts on. His opening of this thread is evidence that he wants to fix things that are percieved to be wrong. My $.02 on how to please everyone...............impossible.

Regards, Bill

A little off topic, but does anyone know if Diet Coke will hurt my flat screen monitor?

"not FJ a competition but rather an event. Trophies dont matteris "
You really think so? Check out BVM's website right after the event to see how many places were won.
Frank you do a great job with F.J. had a good time in 04 and would go again.

P.S. Frank you are the best I always use FTE products they are the best," boot licking"boot licking" now about Top Gun.

frank

let me tell you something about your awards.......they are just fine.....and let em tell you what i have noticed about florida jets

1) you put on a hell of a show
2) its well organized
3) you have an "in" with the weather god
4) great place and facility
5) nobody serves food faster or works harder than the people you contract to
6) excellent announcer
7) excellent coverage---you better waive bryce`s pilot fee next year
8) last and most important...your mellowing with age

you of all people know .....you can please some of the people some of the time but you cant please all of the people all of the time

and we had a blast

nuff said

gregg bingham

Okay, Okay, we can put this to bed now!
All of you that said good things are autoimatically invited to Top Gun for the next 6 years and are guaranteed a trophy whether you fly or not!
NOT !!!

Here's a a humerous bit about something that happened you may get a kick out of. The Silver Cup Award trophies we order for Florida Jets "usually" run about $50 to $55. This year I simply called the guy that sells them and said to reproduce what I had purchased last year. He informed me that he had lost his key employee but he would try and stay on top of it so I would get the order on time. The trophies were delivered a few days before F.J. and I never unboxed them until the event. What a surprise, they were Crystal Glass Cups! Make a long story short, I got the bill and about fell off my chair. $1400 was the tab! Yes, theymade a huge mistake and they said that the bill was for their cost!! Yes, I paid it. But puleeeeeze, don't mistake this years awards for a $10 placque!!

Thanks for the comments, we will try and do better next year. No reason to continue this thread.

FT

Damm, I need to get the toilet bowl cleaner out of that Cup and put it on the mantel! Thanks Frank!

CRYSTAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Bryce gave me a Plastic Cup and all it said was Thank you



What's up with that ???


Johnny Hernandez