We have been trying to get a hold of Robart for 3 months, they will not return our calls at all. We need parts for the Funsonic turbine. As supplied by Robart it is not AMA approved, you cannot fly this at an AMA field due to there being no second fuel shut off with the engine. The one time we did get a hold of E.K. at Robart we were told that it is AMA's problem if they changed the rules and Robart will do nothing about it.
I finally got a hold of Funsonic direct for parts, they informed me that they would ship me the parts 2 weeks ago. Within an hour of their responce to me, Robart was calling us and was very mad. E.K. told us that he would make the cables that day and get them to us. Alas, still no cables and now funsonic will not respond to me. I am afraid that Robart told them not to ship me the parts. Is this not just great service for a Funsonic turbine, this is what you can expect from Robart. I told my customer to return the turbine to Robart and buy a Jetcat.

I was thinking about a Funsonic turbine ,but after this I would like see better service and here from other Funsonic turbine owners about how the turbine is performring in the field.

Robart has a habit of telling you your parts are in the mail. Weeks later nothing shows up.

I emailed Robart several months ago asking a simple question about service on the Funsonic. It took them almost 2 weeks to resond. I figured with a short flying season here in Cleveland, Ohio that I didn't need their slow service. I wondered how long to actually fix something! (Actually the turbine needs to go overseas for any service at all). I bought JetcatUSA and had my P60 in 3 days. They have always answered my questions that same day. I've never looked back!

Dave Rigotti

I was going to order a Funsonic on Monday after seeing them at Toledo,but if Robart and their rep won't respond to the customer needs,I may look elsewhere.Has any one else had any dealings with Robart on the Funsonic?

I know people who had some problems getting special/large gear from Robart. It took them a long time but they did deliver. Robart has just changed hands so maybe that has something to do with it.
If you have problem with the funsonic, Robart cannot much more than replace electronics. If you need other work the turbine will be shipped overseas.
I have seen the turbine run and it does start easy and run well.

Gary

What are you reffering to as a second fuel shutoff? you should have a fiesto manual and the solinoid would be the second controlled by the ecu should it not. Thats all i have ever had with any engine. Is this a NEW rule? Russ

Robart does not supply the required fuel solenoid with the engine. We were told that it is our problem. there is only the manual shut off and that does not meet the requirement in AMA safety rule #8.

As the current rules state you need the manual shut off valve and one electronic shut off valve. This has been the norm for many years, just as you thought. The interesting part is to define the term remotely operated as stated in the AMA doc. A solenoid valve is acceptable as long as it closes with power off. Now I have seen some use a servo to control another manual shutoff valve which is controlled from the radio. This as well will meet the criteria. Some believe the fuel pump is acceptable. To me personally it is not as the fuel pump can still flow fuel when shut off.

Looking at hte FunSonic web page on Robart's web page; it does not show any type of electronic fuel shut off valve in the picture for fuel, only one for gas. And once again another possibility is that the equipment has been updated since the last picture and it includes the items to meet all AMA requirements.

The rule states that the fuel system must have two fuel shut off "Provisions". One must be remotely operated. One is your manual valve. The other when you pull your throttle trim dowm stops the engine by removing voltage from the pump, this is a remote shut off provision. There are many other ways such as a servo operated valve as somone already stated.

Thats what i thought, A solinoid, Fuel pump with check valve, Either of which controlled by the power down of the ECU has always been sufficent. Russ

I looked at the web site and Funsonic offers a fuel valve as a option for $50.00 more dollars I would think at that price thay should supply the valve. I would like to here from Funsonic about this.

Does that mean all of the air start AMT`s have been operating in violation of the AMA rules?? they have no elec valves at all, just a manual fuel shut off.
V..

Great point...

Hi Vincent

Not necessarily. As long as there is a remotely operated fuel shut-off, then the installation is legal. It does NOT have to be controlled by the ecu. So a valve operated by a servo would fit the AMA criteria. Technically, shutting off the fuel pump would essentailly do the same thing, but being as we use gear pumps, there is still the potential to syphon fuel through the pump.

A fuel pump with a check valve will not positively stop the fuel flow as it would have to operate as a check in the direction the fuel normally flows.

Sincerely,
Ed

I just read the review from T.Wilkinson in the last issue of RC jet International, and there is written that the engine is delivered with both valves from now on.

I am quoting from AMA Safety rule #8 "The fuel system shall have two fuel shut-off provisions, one of which is manual and the other one must be remotely operated. An ECU operated soleniod valve is compliant as a remote shut-off if it closes with the loss of power."
A servo operated valve does not meet this requirement due to the fact if the RX battery or switch fails, and there is then the loss of power, the servo will not move. Hence it will not close the valve.

So are the air start turbines that don't have solenoid valves compliant or not?

After having a lengthy conversation with Doug, co-owner of Robart, he has informed me that they do indeed have the fuel soleniods in stock and at Robarts expense they will be shipping them to all Funsonic owners. I was very happy with being able to talk directly to an owner of the company, shows to me that they are willing to correct any misunderstanding that may arise.
Let me just state that the one weekend that I was able to see a Funsonic in action, it did perform flawlessly. Doug will be shipping our new soleniod Fed-Ex to us and we will have by the weekend. Will report back on the operation of the engine if all would like to know.

AMT Air start turbine's are operated with a 3 position switch or a channel controlled by a wheel/knob. The first position, switch in down position is off. The middle position is used after landing to shut down the turbine and the upper most position is run. If any problem arises the off position is basically a electronic shut down of the ECU AND the pump as both are powered by the ECU battery. The switch for the ECU is just for power So AMT I believe is in compliance with the rule. In my Eagle I also have the manual shut off valve in case anyone was wondering

Mark

You guys are overreacting here: The Rule number 8 was one of the original rules as handed down by Bob, I mean God, No Bob. It is one of the ten commandments. It was in place when the ONLY reliable engine you could buy was a Ram 750. NOT the F. I mean the one with the separate oil tank. I had one of these.And the AMT. The rule meant a manual shutoff and SOMETHING controlled by the ECU when a trim or switch told it to. Pump! Thats all there was folks. This predates even the Failsafe rules. YES AMT, SWB and any other air start engine is still legal. As long as the ECU will shut off the pump when commanded. Russ

Russ,

That is the point that I was trying to make. If the AMA is fine with the ECU controlled pump being used as the "remotely operated shut down device" on air airstart turbines, then the Funsonic was AMA legal as delivered.

Exactly! Thanks. Russ

Is there more than one Robart? I just called Robart with some questions regarding my Funsonic, spoke to EK. He could not have been more helpful with his time and information. Possibly the messenger needs to think about how he is sending his message.

you should order it from germany
they lowered the price now for 1599 euro,s

this means you can buy it without local taxes
so that is only 1380,- euro,s for the whole turbine incl autostart!